The Skyhawk Science System - a new, realistic tech tree for KSP, now including Kerbalism support - [v1.1.1 - "For Science!" 8/11/22)]

[bigyihsuan]

1 hour ago, Nekurokasume said:

This may be a dumb question, because I know quite little about modding, but if I were to remove everything in the "Patches" folder would it be possible to use this just as a tech tree?

The Patches folder has a few things: the hypergolic patches, B9PartSwitch patches for tanks, some experiments for the early game, resource definitions, and perhaps most important for this question, the patches for reassigning the BDB contracts to the correct tech nodes.

You could probably get away with deleting everything but the Contracts folder in Patches, though I don't know how much that would break.

[Nekurokasume]

35 minutes ago, bigyihsuan said:

The Patches folder has a few things: the hypergolic patches, B9PartSwitch patches for tanks, some experiments for the early game, resource definitions, and perhaps most important for this question, the patches for reassigning the BDB contracts to the correct tech nodes.

You could probably get away with deleting everything but the Contracts folder in Patches, though I don't know how much that would break.

So far I've tried deleting every folder except contracts and control but upon loading I get a fatal error from B9PartSwitch that causes the game to close. I'm going to try and go into each of the patches and set the things I dont want to False to see if that works

Edit: I should probably include this: The error that B9PartSwitch throws says this:

B9PartSwitch has encountered a fatal error and KSP needs to close.

Fatal exception while loading fields on module ModuleB9PartSwitch on part
 Exception while loading field subtypes on type B9PartSwitch.ModuleB9PartSwitch
 Exception while loading fields on subtype PartSubtype hypergolGold
 Exception while loading field tankType on type B9PartSwitch.PartSubtype
 No tank type named 'SSS_Hypergolic' exists

Please see KSP's log for additional details

Edit 2: It appears that on further exploration of the error I've found the cause. Within SkyhawkScienceSystem\ModSupport\NearFutureExploration\NearFutureExploration.cfg there's a bit of code that adds hypergolic tanks to the NFEx parts, but since I've deleted the patch for Hypergolics (I use RealFuels) there is no tankType named 'SSS_Hypergolic'

Im gonna stop spamming edits and do more exploration/config file editing.

Edited January 15, 2022 by Nekurokasume

[bigyihsuan]

4 hours ago, Nekurokasume said:

So far I've tried deleting every folder except contracts and control but upon loading I get a fatal error from B9PartSwitch that causes the game to close. I'm going to try and go into each of the patches and set the things I dont want to False to see if that works

Edit: I should probably include this: The error that B9PartSwitch throws says this:

B9PartSwitch has encountered a fatal error and KSP needs to close.

Fatal exception while loading fields on module ModuleB9PartSwitch on part
 Exception while loading field subtypes on type B9PartSwitch.ModuleB9PartSwitch
 Exception while loading fields on subtype PartSubtype hypergolGold
 Exception while loading field tankType on type B9PartSwitch.PartSubtype
 No tank type named 'SSS_Hypergolic' exists

Please see KSP's log for additional details

Edit 2: It appears that on further exploration of the error I've found the cause. Within SkyhawkScienceSystem\ModSupport\NearFutureExploration\NearFutureExploration.cfg there's a bit of code that adds hypergolic tanks to the NFEx parts, but since I've deleted the patch for Hypergolics (I use RealFuels) there is no tankType named 'SSS_Hypergolic'

Im gonna stop spamming edits and do more exploration/config file editing.

Seems like the patches in ModSupport assume that all the patches in Patches exist, based on the NFEx and hypergolics error. You'd probably need to fix a whole lot of patches to completely remove hypergolics.

I personally don't mind the new hydrolox, methalox, and hypergolics patches, they make it a bit more interesting to use engines.

[Nekurokasume]

3 minutes ago, bigyihsuan said:

Seems like the patches in ModSupport assume that all the patches in Patches exist, based on the NFEx and hypergolics error. You'd probably need to fix a whole lot of patches to completely remove hypergolics.

I personally don't mind the new hydrolox, methalox, and hypergolics patches, they make it a bit more interesting to use engines.

I thought the same thing, but as it turns out only the NFEx patch had code to add hypergolics to parts, I looked through some, but not all, of the other support patches and didn't see anything else. Either way, I think I've got things working the way I want, but I'll have to play a bit more just to make sure

[reviest]

Really enjoying this mod! Thank you for this work! Quick question: when playing career I'm missing parts from unsupported mods. Is there a way to add them into my career (I have no problems seeing parts when in sandbox)?

[Friznit]

3 hours ago, reviest said:

Really enjoying this mod! Thank you for this work! Quick question: when playing career I'm missing parts from unsupported mods. Is there a way to add them into my career (I have no problems seeing parts when in sandbox)?

That's a "feature" until Skyhawk makes a generic workaround patch for unsupported mods.   You can add them yourself if you copy one of the mod support configs and allocate the parts to the appropriate tech node.  The configs are very intuitive and I'm sure Pull Requests would be very welcome!

[reviest]

9 hours ago, Friznit said:

That's a "feature" until Skyhawk makes a generic workaround patch for unsupported mods.   You can add them yourself if you copy one of the mod support configs and allocate the parts to the appropriate tech node.  The configs are very intuitive and I'm sure Pull Requests would be very welcome!

Thank you for the reply! I just didn't know where to start. Existing configs are indeed very intuitive and I've already moved some parts into tech tree.  It will take a lot of time to create complete support configs though, since we are talking about Tantares lol.

[Radical2638]

Threw in a couple of pull requests which should (if I am using Github properly; I made an account just for this) add support for Tantares parts (from all four Tantares mods) and Eisenhower Astronautics support.

EDIT: Only the pull request adding ModSupport folders and .cfgs works right now. I am not sure why Hypergolics is not working - something to do with the first stage of Proton being both a fuel tank and an engine. Same goes for Vostok right now, unfortunately.

Edited January 17, 2022 by Radical2638

[Radical2638]

Not sure where my previous reply went - I sent in a couple of pull requests to add compatibility for Tantares including hypergolics. I can't seem to get the Proton first stages to work though.

[CessnaSkyhawk]

22 hours ago, Radical2638 said:

Threw in a couple of pull requests which should (if I am using Github properly; I made an account just for this) add support for Tantares parts (from all four Tantares mods) and Eisenhower Astronautics support.

EDIT: Only the pull request adding ModSupport folders and .cfgs works right now. I am not sure why Hypergolics is not working - something to do with the first stage of Proton being both a fuel tank and an engine. Same goes for Vostok right now, unfortunately.

 

22 hours ago, Radical2638 said:

Not sure where my previous reply went - I sent in a couple of pull requests to add compatibility for Tantares including hypergolics. I can't seem to get the Proton first stages to work though.

Alright - thanks so much for the contributions!  I have a feeling I know exactly what the issue with hypergolics is, so when I take a look at the PRs (ideally sometime later this week - currently a little busy with a side project which will be revealed soon ), I should be able to fix it!

[JebTheDestroyer]

Hi, I noticed that this mod treats Kerbalism's Life Support Supply Boxes as fuel tanks, and that there's no option for adding food to them. Additionally, I tried Stockalike Station Parts Expansion Redux's logistic modules, and there was no option for adding food there either. Any chance we could get a fix?

Love the mod btw :)

[CessnaSkyhawk]

4 hours ago, JebTheDestroyer said:

Hi, I noticed that this mod treats Kerbalism's Life Support Supply Boxes as fuel tanks, and that there's no option for adding food to them. Additionally, I tried Stockalike Station Parts Expansion Redux's logistic modules, and there was no option for adding food there either. Any chance we could get a fix?

Love the mod btw

I'm aware of the issue - expect some news on it in the next few days  

[JebTheDestroyer]

15 hours ago, CessnaSkyhawk said:

I'm aware of the issue - expect some news on it in the next few days  

Thanks! Looking forward to it!

[tinyspy44]

I don't know if you take suggestions for mods but is there any chance of you adding support for Tantares, Tantares Launch Vehicles and Tantares Space Probes? I know this tech tree is based around Bluedog but I feel Tantares complements BDB well.

[bigyihsuan]

2 hours ago, tinyspy44 said:

I don't know if you take suggestions for mods but is there any chance of you adding support for Tantares, Tantares Launch Vehicles and Tantares Space Probes? I know this tech tree is based around Bluedog but I feel Tantares complements BDB well.

There's an active pull request on the Github repo for the Tantares mods, albeit with Proton support being broken: https://github.com/CessnaSkyhawk/SkyhawkScienceSystem/pull/54

[CessnaSkyhawk]

Hi everyone - sorry for the lack of activity the last few weeks. I've been working on a little something that's about halfway to being ready. I'll probably make an offical dev thread for it later this week, but for now, here are some teasers of what's coming...

 

 

Edited January 22, 2022 by CessnaSkyhawk

[epicpupster239]

8 hours ago, CessnaSkyhawk said:

Hi everyone - sorry for the lack of activity the last few weeks. I've been working on a little something that's about halfway to being ready. I'll probably make an offical dev thread for it later this week, but for now, here are some teasers of what's coming...

 

 

ok, this is epic

[JebTheDestroyer]

10 hours ago, CessnaSkyhawk said:

Hi everyone - sorry for the lack of activity the last few weeks. I've been working on a little something that's about halfway to being ready. I'll probably make an offical dev thread for it later this week, but for now, here are some teasers of what's coming...

 

 

Does this mean more compatibility with Kerbalism? I tried playing with it in Science mode but found that it was completely broken, though I suspect that's more the fault of BDB/Kerbalism than your mod.

[CessnaSkyhawk]

14 hours ago, JebTheDestroyer said:

Does this mean more compatibility with Kerbalism? I tried playing with it in Science mode but found that it was completely broken, though I suspect that's more the fault of BDB/Kerbalism than your mod.

Indeed it does - Kerbalism never really got along well with BDB to begin with, and SSS makes a lot of changes to science balance making it really tough to combine the too, so I'm working on a full compat patch similar to how the Tetrix Tech Tree has Simplex Kerbalism to go with it.

[JebTheDestroyer]

10 minutes ago, CessnaSkyhawk said:

Indeed it does - Kerbalism never really got along well with BDB to begin with, and SSS makes a lot of changes to science balance making it really tough to combine the too, so I'm working on a full compat patch similar to how the Tetrix Tech Tree has Simplex Kerbalism to go with it.

I cannot even begin to explain how cool that is of you. Maybe you should send that patch to the Kerbalism authors so they can integrate it. 

[TaintedLion]

Can we get a patch so this is compatible with SMURFF? Your modded fuel types don't adjust.

[CessnaSkyhawk]

Hi everyone - figured I'd give a bit of an update on where the SSS Kerbalism support is standing. I've completed the life support and ISRU system, and now its on to configuring the science system to fit the tech tree.. I've tried to make life support a lot more intuitive, while still maintaining its challenge. Kerbals consume whole number quantities of Food, Water, and O2 every day, making it easier to see how much LS you've got without needing to go deep into the planner. There are also new processes which make for a lot more dynamic choices. For example, there are now both regenerative and non-regenerative scrubbers. Non-regenerative scrubbers wear out after a set time, but also tend to be unlocked earlier in the tech tree than their regenerative equivalents, making for an interesting tradeoff. Greenhouses have also been redone so that rather than having to click back to harvest food every couple hundred days, they produce food passively, making it easy to run a ton of missions at once.  I've also rebalanced ISRU systems. They are now a decent bit slower than stock Kerbalism, to encourage actions such as building refueling bases or sending ISRU systems before the main mission, but also are a lot more flexible, with the majority of Rational Resource's processes directly implemented into them, along with support for SSS's own hypergolics.

I've also got a question for you guys - would you be interested in a optional Kerbalism addon which would allow for a jury-rigged thermal system? It wouldn't be very realistic, but would still make it so that you are required to carry radiators to run ISRUs and other similar processes.

On 1/27/2022 at 9:42 AM, TaintedLion said:

Can we get a patch so this is compatible with SMURFF? Your modded fuel types don't adjust.

I'll look into it, but I think that may be on SMURFF's end.

[RKunze]

27 minutes ago, CessnaSkyhawk said:

Hi everyone - figured I'd give a bit of an update on where the SSS Kerbalism support is standing. I've completed the life support and ISRU system, and now its on to configuring the science system to fit the tech tree.. I've tried to make life support a lot more intuitive, while still maintaining its challenge. Kerbals consume whole number quantities of Food, Water, and O2 every day, making it easier to see how much LS you've got without needing to go deep into the planner. There are also new processes which make for a lot more dynamic choices. For example, there are now both regenerative and non-regenerative scrubbers. Non-regenerative scrubbers wear out after a set time, but also tend to be unlocked earlier in the tech tree than their regenerative equivalents, making for an interesting tradeoff. Greenhouses have also been redone so that rather than having to click back to harvest food every couple hundred days, they produce food passively, making it easy to run a ton of missions at once.  I've also rebalanced ISRU systems. They are now a decent bit slower than stock Kerbalism, to encourage actions such as building refueling bases or sending ISRU systems before the main mission, but also are a lot more flexible, with the majority of Rational Resource's processes directly implemented into them, along with support for SSS's own hypergolics.

Sounds great - I'm eagerly looking forward to playtest this!

28 minutes ago, CessnaSkyhawk said:

I've also got a question for you guys - would you be interested in a optional Kerbalism addon which would allow for a jury-rigged thermal system? It wouldn't be very realistic, but would still make it so that you are required to carry radiators to run ISRUs and other similar processes.

Not sure. On the one hand yes, because the stock thermal system is kind of pointless. On the other hand, there already is 

I know that SystemHeat does not play  well with Kerbalism out of the box, but some integration work has already been done here: https://github.com/judicator/KerbalismSystemHeat (seems to be abandoned though, last commit is from July 2021). So maybe better invest the time in integrating SystemHeat with Kerbalism instead of rolling your own heat system?

I actually might take a stab updating/adapting KerbalismSystemHeat for an 1.12.3 game with SSS myself because SystemHeat is a dependency for Nerteas FFT, and I'm still missing a decent Far Future parts pack for my SSS+Kerbalism playthrough. Not sure how fast I'll get that done though, because I have not much experience with C# and Unity set (I am a software developer in may day job though, and pretty sure that yet another programming language and API is not an unsurmountable problem).

[Red Dwarf]

Not sure if this has been asked already, but how does this mod interact with Bluedog's contract system? I was looking at the contracts added by Bluedog, and they seem to use stock tech tree nodes as criteria for when the contract can be accepted (for example, one contract required that "Miniaturization" be researched before it would be made available). Since Skyhawk changes those tech nodes, will I ever be able to accept those contracts?

[Friznit]

6 hours ago, Red Dwarf said:

Not sure if this has been asked already, but how does this mod interact with Bluedog's contract system? I was looking at the contracts added by Bluedog, and they seem to use stock tech tree nodes as criteria for when the contract can be accepted (for example, one contract required that "Miniaturization" be researched before it would be made available). Since Skyhawk changes those tech nodes, will I ever be able to accept those contracts?

The dev version on Github has a patch to fix the BDB contracts.

I've been using the tech tree in my latest career and enjoying it.  Generally it faces the same problem as any tech tree in that you can tend to unlock everything up to about Tier 7 very quickly with the local system science (and not trying very hard at that), then you hit a bit of a wall whilst interplanetary stuff slowly unlocks.  I'd prefer a steeper curve on the early nodes then flatten it out after Tier 6/7 - it would encourage use of early rockets more without causing excessive grind in the mid to late game.

I've had to manually patch in a few mods and updates, which thankfully is pretty straight forward to do, but the tree could really use a generic patch for adding unsupported mod parts to the nearest equivalent tech node.