KSP1 Computer Building/Buying Megathread

[legoclone09]

55 minutes ago, Bulldog88 said:

What is the concern for the psu? Again I know nothing as this will be my first PC.

Edit: This is made by Microcenter's in house brand. From my understanding it looks like they allow some level of customization in store even on pre-built. If I were to change the PSU what would you recommend?

The PSU usually isn't the highest quality (seems to be an EVGA 500w 80+ non-nodular, you can probably swap it for a better EVGA one), but since you can customize it, I'd recommend to get a EVGA 80+ rated and semi-modular PSU, that's a steal for a basically identical PC. If you can, I would get a different model of the GTX 1070, the cooler on the the one they have there isn't very good. Here's the goodPSU: https://www.amazon.com/EVGA-SuperNOVA-Modular-Tester-220-GS-0550-V1/dp/B00UVN20UO/ref=sr_1_4?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1481400512&sr=1-4&keywords=evga+power+supply&refinements=p_n_feature_keywords_two_browse-bin%3A6906984011

[Bulldog88]

6 hours ago, legoclone09 said:

The PSU usually isn't the highest quality (seems to be an EVGA 500w 80+ non-nodular, you can probably swap it for a better EVGA one), but since you can customize it, I'd recommend to get a EVGA 80+ rated and semi-modular PSU, that's a steal for a basically identical PC. If you can, I would get a different model of the GTX 1070, the cooler on the the one they have there isn't very good. Here's the goodPSU: https://www.amazon.com/EVGA-SuperNOVA-Modular-Tester-220-GS-0550-V1/dp/B00UVN20UO/ref=sr_1_4?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1481400512&sr=1-4&keywords=evga+power+supply&refinements=p_n_feature_keywords_two_browse-bin%3A6906984011

Ok I will look into that. I should rephrase my original question though. What affects will I notice with a lower quality psu? Will it affect gameplay or put components at higher risk? Thanks for all the help!

[cantab]

My two cents:

An adequate power supply is one that will take in-spec wall power and provide your PC's components with in-spec power at any power they may draw, and therefore as long as your PC's components are made properly they'll run just fine. Such a supply must have a rated wattage greater than the maximum possible draw of your PC, and is also likely to have most of the following characteristics: Good reviews by a reviewer that knows what they're doing, made by a reputable brand, decent-length warranty, 80+ (and usually 80+ Bronze) cert, doesn't come with a cheap case.

The EVGA supply in the G418 is almost certainly adequate. Virtually every supply EVGA have branded is. The power supply in the G313 is an unknown, but put it this way: do you think Microcenter would want to be doing expensive warranty replacements of PCs that had been wrecked by garbage power supplies? I doubt it.

Compared to that "adequate" baseline, a better power supply can improve in various ways. It can provide more stable power than the ATX spec requires, which can help achieve greater overclocks and some people think can improve component life. It can be rated to a higher wattage than you need right now so you can upgrade in future, but remember there's no point in overkill. It may behave better if subjected to horrible out-of-regulations wall power, though if this is an issue where you live you should consider a UPS. It may behave better if poorly ventilated, though again you should really consider fixing that anyway. It can be more efficient, which means the PSU generates less heat too, which could be an advantage in some case designs. It may run quieter. And of course it can have modular cables.

[legoclone09]

1 hour ago, Bulldog88 said:

Ok I will look into that. I should rephrase my original question though. What affects will I notice with a lower quality psu? Will it affect gameplay or put components at higher risk? Thanks for all the help!

Low quality PSUs can explode, but it's an EVGA and it will work perfectly. I think you should get a semi-modular one because you can add and remove SATA and PCI-E power cables when you want, which is very useful. It won't effect gameplay or anything.

[Elthy]

PSUs affect the noise of the PC in two ways: They have a fan on their own, higher efficency means it can run slower. Also they can affect coil whine in GPUs, which can be extremly annoying...

[steve_v]

9 hours ago, Bulldog88 said:

Ok I will look into that. I should rephrase my original question though. What affects will I notice with a lower quality psu? Will it affect gameplay or put components at higher risk? Thanks for all the help!

Depends how far down you go with "lower quality". Bottom of the barrel no-brand (or rebranded mystery meat) PSUs tend to lie about ratings, have very poor regulation (may cause system instability) and lack protection features (magic smoke comes out at or below "rated" power). In extreme cases the voltage regulation may be so far out of spec it damages other components.
Cheap (but not trash can material) PSUs generally perform to spec, but may be loud (low efficiency), have cheap (unreliable) fans, and borderline regulation (may limit overclocking).
Once you get out of the bargain bin, the more expensive the unit the better quality the components (longer life) the better the efficiency and regulation, and the more nice features (modular cables etc.) you get.

If the main selling point is "LED fans" run away. Ditto if you can't find out who made it, it weighs as much as a box of air, or if it has a voltage selector on the back (lacks active PFC).

The best guide is probably a decent review site that does proper stress-tests and tears the unit down to find out what's inside. Here's one of several review databases.
And here's a guide to what's inside one.

Edited December 11, 2016 by steve_v

[Bulldog88]

@cantab @Elthy @legoclone09 @steve_v

Awesome! Thanks guys. It looks like it comes with an EVGA 80+ bronze rated. So I'm thinking I may be ok temporarily and replace that at a later date.

[legoclone09]

15 minutes ago, Bulldog88 said:

@cantab @Elthy @legoclone09 @steve_v

Awesome! Thanks guys. It looks like it comes with an EVGA 80+ bronze rated. So I'm thinking I may be ok temporarily and replace that at a later date.

You'll be fine, that's a good PSU. If you can swap out the GPU with this one: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127951&cm_re=gtx_1070-_-14-127-951-_-Product

It has a better cooler on it, and MicroCenter probably has it. MicroCenter is a PC enthusiast's heaven. Insane deals there, but you need to go to the store and there aren't many MicroCenters.

[Ten Key]

3 hours ago, Bulldog88 said:

Awesome! Thanks guys. It looks like it comes with an EVGA 80+ bronze rated. So I'm thinking I may be ok temporarily and replace that at a later date.

What's the model number? Any of these look fine, but scroll down to the specs for a moment. See the "+12V Rail Rating" column? That's a critical stat that often gets ignored on lower end PSU's. 

Your computer's power supply takes in alternating current from a wall socket and converts it to direct current at three different voltages: 3 volts, 5 volts and 12 volts. Each of these lines in turn powers a different part of your computer. It is entirely possible to overload one of these lines without exceeding the maximum rated wattage on the PSU. The video card is usually the most power hungry piece of equipment in your machine, and it runs on the 12 volt line. 

These lines are usually called "rails". 

You want to make sure your PSU can provide enough current on its 12 volt rail to keep your video card happy. A good video card will tell you have many amps of power it needs (my GTX 680 draws about 30 amps) and a good PSU will tell you how many amps it can support on its 12 volt rail. 

EVGA makes decent quality power supplies, but make sure you check the amperage on both the video card and the PSU before you buy. We accidentally overloaded a PSU many years ago (under the wattage rating, but too much current on the 12 volt rail) and it worked like a champ for two years. . .and then had an aneurysm and took half the computer down with it. 

[cantab]

If it's in a prebuilt it's more likely to be something like this:

http://www.evga.com/products/product.aspx?pn=100-B1-0500-KR

Still no worries about the quality of that supply, and the 12 V rail is rated for 480 W which is not a problem. Decent modern power supplies are always capable of full or nearly-full output on the 12 V rail because that's what modern PCs need most. It's older designs that nowadays are sold in the 'cheap junk' category that tend to have wimpy 12 V output because old PCs used to need more power at the lower voltages and less at 12.

[steve_v]

7 hours ago, Ten Key said:

my GTX 680

Heh, until not so long ago I was running two of those (topic at hand: powered by one of these). One died a terrible death so I'm kinda quietly thinking about an upgrade. Would be nice to get back up to SLI performance on a single card, but that might be wishfull thinking... Anyone done a 6xx -> 10xx upgrade recently? (Nvidia for the GNU/Linux drivers. )

 

7 hours ago, cantab said:

old PCs used to need more power at the lower voltages and less at 12.

Yeah, I blame the Pentium toaster 4. That dratted extra 12v to the motherboard. And GPUs of course. It's all in the name of increased efficiency and decreased copper... probably. Not sure how adding another switcher on the motherboard (or GPU) to chop the 12v down further improves things, but that's how modern PCs are designed. Personally I would expect using the 3.3v rail to derive  the 1.xxv vcore to be more efficient, but it would mean bigger wiring from the PSU.

Edited December 12, 2016 by steve_v
The case of the missing "t"

[legoclone09]

10 minutes ago, steve_v said:

Heh, until not so long ago I was running two of those (topic at hand: powered by one of these). One died a terrible death so I'm kinda quietly thinking about an upgrade. Would be nice to get back up to SLI performance on a single card, but that migh be wishfull thinking... Anyone done a 6xx -> 10xx upgrade recently? (Nvidia for the GNU/Linux drivers. )

I did an upgrade from a GTX 660 to a RX 480 8GB two weeks ago, but you use Linux so you'll need the Novideo card. The RX 480's equivalent is the 1060 6GB, so get that. If you do use Windows 10, the RX 480 8GB will be better than the 1060 because of DirectX 12.

[steve_v]

1 hour ago, legoclone09 said:

you use Linux so you'll need the Novideo card

Yeah, AMDs GNU/Linux drivers are horrible. Getting better, but still horrible.

1 hour ago, legoclone09 said:

The RX 480's equivalent is the 1060 6GB, so get that.

Okay, next question: Where I am, the 1060 is about half the price of the 1080. And I can replace my second 680 for half of that... comparisons I find on the www indicate there's not that much difference between 2x 680 and 1060, but there is vs. a 1080... so the decider for 2x680 vs. 1060 (aside from $$) is VRAM & SLI being a PITA... How much benefit from upping the 2GB on the 680s?

Ed. Scratch that, just went and bought me a tasty ASUS ROG STRIX-GTX1070-O8G . Knew there had to be a middle ground.

Edited December 12, 2016 by steve_v

[JWOC]

Hi all,

I am looking for some opinions on my pc build 

heres the link https://pcpartpicker.com/list/WBvWJV

thanks,

-JWOC

[steve_v]

1 hour ago, JWOC said:

I am looking for some opinions on my pc build 

That's a very fancy motherboard.

[JWOC]

what would you recommend instead. it needs to be an atx style board. im looking for one with  8.2.11ac support, 4 usb3 ports, audio connections for mic and headset and an ethernet connection . 

[steve_v]

1 hour ago, JWOC said:

what would you recommend instead.

That wasn't criticism, just an observation. It's a nice board, you pay for the features, but if you want the features...
That said, if it were me I'd probably offload the wifi requirement to a pci-e card.

[Elthy]

Any ATX Z170 would do the job, some only cost 1/3 as much. Also your PSU is to overpowered and you could save money with a cheaper case, too.

[Randox]

9 hours ago, steve_v said:

...

Yeah, I blame the Pentium toaster 4. That dratted extra 12v to the motherboard. And GPUs of course. It's all in the name of increased efficiency and decreased copper... probably. Not sure how adding another switcher on the motherboard (or GPU) to chop the 12v down further improves things, but that's how modern PCs are designed. Personally I would expect using the 3.3v rail to derive  the 1.xxv vcore to be more efficient, but it would mean bigger wiring from the PSU.

The problem is current. It's the same reason national power grids use step up and down transformers rather than sending everything at the desired end voltage. For a given wattage, as voltage goes down, current goes up. The natural resistance of the power line causes some of that current to be lost as heat, and as the wire heats up, it becomes more resistant to the flow of electricity. Assuming the wire doesn't fail, this means that a given wire can only carry so much current at a particular voltage, with higher voltages also driving higher currents.

You can use multiple parallel wires to combat the issue, which is absolutely done as well, but it still made sense to make use of the 12V line, since it is more effecient, and can be easily stepped down by the motherboard and GPU.

[steve_v]

6 hours ago, Randox said:

 

__THIS FORUM IS HORRIBLY BROKEN ON MOBILE__
There, now that I've got that out of my system...

Yeah, I know. Hence the "saving copper" and "bigger wires"bits.

Why all this whitespace? Beats me, same goes for the broken quote...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[JWOC]

so i redid my list of parts and am looking for more opinons here is the link https://pcpartpicker.com/list/YhY9wV

-JWOC

[cantab]

And even with running the main components off 12 V, you're still looking at 40 amps on a ~500 Watt supply. 40 amps is a *big* current for a household device. Of course the power is low(ish), but it's the current that counts for wire heating.

Edited December 12, 2016 by cantab

[JWOC]

@Elthy  @steve_v ok thanks for all the opinions i will take that into account. i changed some stuff up check the post i just put up to get the link to the new build. 

[legoclone09]

15 minutes ago, JWOC said:

so i redid my list of parts and am looking for more opinons here is the link https://pcpartpicker.com/list/YhY9wV

-JWOC

Here's a better list. Includes a 1TB hard drive, so if you don't need that remove it.
https://pcpartpicker.com/list/Cj6rqk

I got a Z170 chipset motherboard because the H110 does not support overclocking, and purchasing an unlocked processor with a non-overclocking motherboard is a waste of money. I chose a better cooler ($5 more, but way better). I changed the PSU to a semi-modular so you can add and remove SATA and PCI-E power cables as you want, so you aren't limited. I replaced the GTX 1060 6GB with a Radeon RX 480 8GB, because it has more VRAM and has better performance on DirectX 12, which more games in the future would use, so it will have better futureproofing. A 2x4 set of RAM is better than one 1x8 stick because running RAM in dual-channel is better than only one stick. I replaced the case with a $50 cheaper one that is still of very high quality, but the case is mostly personal preference.

[steve_v]

4 hours ago, legoclone09 said:

I got a Z170 chipset motherboard because the H110 does not support overclocking

+1

4 hours ago, legoclone09 said:

I changed the PSU to a semi-modular

750W is serious overkill, unless you plan on a second GPU later on. Then again it's only ~$20 more. Not convinced on modular supplies either TBH - more sliding connections and more bits to loose into the big box of random cables.

4 hours ago, legoclone09 said:

I replaced the GTX 1060 6GB with a Radeon RX 480 8GB

No comment 

4 hours ago, legoclone09 said:

A 2x4 set of RAM is better than one 1x8 stick

+1

4 hours ago, legoclone09 said:

I replaced the case with a $50 cheaper one

I would too, I hate cases with handles, can't put as much junk on top