KSP1 Computer Building/Buying Megathread

[Camacha]

On 24/03/2016 at 6:09 PM, Alphasus said:

I still think that 1440p + IPS is definitively better than TN at 144Hz.

It all depends on your intents and purposes. Saying one it better than the other is like saying a drag racing car is better than a formula 1 car. It depends on the metric you use to compare them, and the specific models that you are comparing.

Fast games do benefit from higher refresh rates. My personal experience is that 60 Hz is not quite enough for fast games (like Quake 3). 75 Hz already is a lot better. This might vary between models. Ghosting can be quite annoying and quite visible, depending on the monitor. If you pick TN, be sure to read plenty of reviews. Some monitors exhibit all the bad traits that the technology has like solarizing, colour shifts and crunching. If you pick IPS, be sure to check out gaming reviews and whether the screen is responsive enough to suit your needs. Depending on your needs, either technology can ruin the experience, depending on your needs and preferences.

[Norcalplanner]

So now that a near-to-final version of KSP 1.1 is in the hands of people who can talk about it, have there been any CPU revelations?  I'm going to be building a new rig soon for KSP and other things, but the last big question in my mind is whether I stick with the i5-6600K (which I decided on a month ago) or jump up to the i7-6700K?  Are any of the streamers noticing any difference between these two, particularly on whether hyperthreading adds anything in an environment with large and/or multiple craft?

[Alphasus]

Pros: 144hz is very smooth in games that support it... of which there are very few
144hz desktop experience is neat. everything moves and re-sizes so cleanly
Seems solidly built.
Stand and adjustments are great.

Cons: Colors: they suck. After calibration (custom color profile and some osd menu tweaking) they are better, but still not good.
Contrast: yuck. Calibration does little to help this. everything always seems to bright or too dark, too washed out or too muddy.
1080p resolution: yes a i know it's a budget 144hz, but if you're on a budget you probably wont be pushing over 60 fps anyway.

Other Thoughts: 144hz gaming is amazing... for a few hours. If you are on the fence choosing between this and, say, a 1440p or an IPS, ditch this monitor and go for the higher resolution or better colors instead. My other monitor is a 1440p IPS by LG and it is superior in every possible way (except the 144hz thing).

 Manufacturer Response:

Dear James,

Hello, I would like to thank you for taking your time in writing this review. We certainly value your feedback. It is unfortunate that you are not satisfied with your monitor's color even with calibration. Sorry for the inconvenience this caused you. If there is anything I can do to help you, feel free to contact me at [email protected] and I will help you to the best of my abilities. I am here to assist our customers with our products and dedicated in bringing a resolution to all issues that they may come across. Your case for reference is #N1601102185

Thanks for choosing ASUS

Regards,
Justin 
ASUS Customer Loyalty

Review from the Newegg site for that monitor.

@KocLobster

Edited March 27, 2016 by Alphasus

[KocLobster]

18 hours ago, Camacha said:

It all depends on your intents and purposes. Saying one it better than the other is like saying a drag racing car is better than a formula 1 car. It depends on the metric you use to compare them, and the specific models that you are comparing.

Fast games do benefit from higher refresh rates. My personal experience is that 60 Hz is not quite enough for fast games (like Quake 3). 75 Hz already is a lot better. This might vary between models. Ghosting can be quite annoying and quite visible, depending on the monitor. If you pick TN, be sure to read plenty of reviews. Some monitors exhibit all the bad traits that the technology has like solarizing, colour shifts and crunching. If you pick IPS, be sure to check out gaming reviews and whether the screen is responsive enough to suit your needs. Depending on your needs, either technology can ruin the experience, depending on your needs and preferences.

I appreciate your post, this makes a lot of sense to me. I always try and pick components from Newegg that have as many reviews (favourable ones obviously) as possible. The monitor I chose has a ton of reviews and they are all very high. Rather than go through a ton of reviews on newegg, I'm going to look at a number of reviews from very reputable computer companies, like Tom's Hardware, PCMag, etc.

12 hours ago, Norcalplanner said:

So now that a near-to-final version of KSP 1.1 is in the hands of people who can talk about it, have there been any CPU revelations?  I'm going to be building a new rig soon for KSP and other things, but the last big question in my mind is whether I stick with the i5-6600K (which I decided on a month ago) or jump up to the i7-6700K?  Are any of the streamers noticing any difference between these two, particularly on whether hyperthreading adds anything in an environment with large and/or multiple craft?

I would also be interested in hearing about this. Although personally, I don't plan on spending an extra ~$120 to go from the i5-6600k to the i7-6700k when I buy my new rig in a few weeks. I think I'd be incredibly pressed to make use of that extra CPU; in fact I'll be hard pressed to make use of all the CPU of the i5-6600k (before even OCing it too).

Edited March 27, 2016 by KocLobster

[KocLobster]

5 hours ago, Alphasus said:

Pros: 144hz is very smooth in games that support it... of which there are very few
144hz desktop experience is neat. everything moves and re-sizes so cleanly
Seems solidly built.
Stand and adjustments are great.

Cons: Colors: they suck. After calibration (custom color profile and some osd menu tweaking) they are better, but still not good.
Contrast: yuck. Calibration does little to help this. everything always seems to bright or too dark, too washed out or too muddy.
1080p resolution: yes a i know it's a budget 144hz, but if you're on a budget you probably wont be pushing over 60 fps anyway.

Other Thoughts: 144hz gaming is amazing... for a few hours. If you are on the fence choosing between this and, say, a 1440p or an IPS, ditch this monitor and go for the higher resolution or better colors instead. My other monitor is a 1440p IPS by LG and it is superior in every possible way (except the 144hz thing).

 Manufacturer Response:

Dear James,

Hello, I would like to thank you for taking your time in writing this review. We certainly value your feedback. It is unfortunate that you are not satisfied with your monitor's color even with calibration. Sorry for the inconvenience this caused you. If there is anything I can do to help you, feel free to contact me at [email protected] and I will help you to the best of my abilities. I am here to assist our customers with our products and dedicated in bringing a resolution to all issues that they may come across. Your case for reference is #N1601102185

Thanks for choosing ASUS

Regards,
Justin 
ASUS Customer Loyalty

Review from the Newegg site for that monitor.

@KocLobster

That's the problem with Newegg reviews: everyone is going to have a different opinion, and everyone has different preferences in what they like and want out of a monitor. I'll admit that you're making a strong case for a 1440p 60Hz IPS monitor, but you aren't speaking at all towards my stated preferences (of high frame rates and fast refresh rates). Admittedly, you really can't, because my preferences aren't up for debate, they just are what they are.  

Anyways, I really don't know what I want because I haven't tried either. But going off of what I know my preferences to be, and the widely accepted pros and cons of 27" 1440p 60Hz IPS vs. 24" 1080p 144Hz TN, to me it just sounds like the 1080p 144Hz is the way to go, as far as my preferences are concerned. I still feel like the 60Hz monitor just isn't quite up to snuff and that it would greatly under-utilize and bottleneck the powerful 980 GPU that I will have.

I think I could greatly benefit from being able to try both types of setups before having to make a purchase. I don't know if any of my local computer stores would have this ability though. I'd probably have a hard time finding a good representation of the 1440p and the 1080p monitors we've been discussing and that I'm considering. I'll admit I'm a little on the fence over this still, just because you are so strongly for the opposite side of what sounds right for me, albeit I'm still leaning heavily towards 1080p 144Hz.

How can I test these setups out before having to commit to a ~$300 monitor purchase and end up with something I don't like as much?

[Alphasus]

5 minutes ago, KocLobster said:

That's the problem with Newegg reviews: everyone is going to have a different opinion, and everyone has different preferences in what they like and want out of a monitor. I'll admit that you're making a strong case for a 1440p 60Hz IPS monitor, but you aren't speaking at all towards my stated preferences (of high frame rates and fast refresh rates). Admittedly, you really can't, because my preferences aren't up for debate, they just are what they are.  

Anyways, I really don't know what I want because I haven't tried either. But going off of what I know my preferences to be, and the widely accepted pros and cons of 27" 1440p 60Hz IPS vs. 24" 1080p 144Hz TN, to me it just sounds like the 1080p 144Hz is the way to go, as far as my preferences are concerned. I still feel like the 60Hz monitor just isn't quite up to snuff and that it would greatly under-utilize and bottleneck the powerful 980 GPU that I will have.

I think I could greatly benefit from being able to try both types of setups before having to make a purchase. I don't know if any of my local computer stores would have this ability though. I'd probably have a hard time finding a good representation of the 1440p and the 1080p monitors we've been discussing and that I'm considering. I'll admit I'm a little on the fence over this still, just because you are so strongly for the opposite side of what sounds right for me, albeit I'm still leaning heavily towards 1080p 144Hz.

How can I test these setups out before having to commit to a ~$300 monitor purchase and end up with something I don't like as much?

If you live near a Fry's you can put games on a USB stick(Best Buy works too), and test them there. They have multiple monitors, and those are plugged into computers that you can test with. Use the USB stick, and play a game like Minecraft(not really important, CS Source will show much more difference). KSP can be tested the same way if you move your steam library on list. Separately, 1440p 60 is just about is demanding as 1080p 144hz. 1440p 60 will benefit more from the 980 because it uses more VRAM than the 970 if you make that decision(it might need the fast VRAM). So, the 60 Hz will need the graphical grunt. What tech stores are you near?

[KocLobster]

1 hour ago, Alphasus said:

If you live near a Fry's you can put games on a USB stick(Best Buy works too), and test them there. They have multiple monitors, and those are plugged into computers that you can test with. Use the USB stick, and play a game like Minecraft(not really important, CS Source will show much more difference). KSP can be tested the same way if you move your steam library on list. Separately, 1440p 60 is just about is demanding as 1080p 144hz. 1440p 60 will benefit more from the 980 because it uses more VRAM than the 970 if you make that decision(it might need the fast VRAM). So, the 60 Hz will need the graphical grunt. What tech stores are you near?

I see. I live in Seattle, so I'm near Office Depot, Office Max, maybe more, and in fact there is a Fry's Electronics very close to where I live! So I will check them out. I guess I really don't know which way to go no matter what, until I am able to test out the two different setups. It's quite possible I can tell very little difference between the two and it won't make a lot of difference to me.

[Alphasus]

4 minutes ago, KocLobster said:

I see. I live in Seattle, so I'm near Office Depot, Office Max, maybe more, and in fact there is a Fry's Electronics very close to where I live! So I will check them out. I guess I really don't know which way to go no matter what, until I am able to test out the two different setups. It's quite possible I can tell very little difference between the two and it won't make a lot of difference to me.

Fry's has quite a few nice machines. Look for a GTX 980 and i5 rig at least to test with(AMD alternatives are r9 390 and fx 8350).

[KocLobster]

I'm also juggling the idea that I am admittedly not a competitive gamer, don't play in tournaments or anything, I just play games a lot...a large majority of my free time in fact. I feel your opinion obviously is a bit biased towards the 1440p IPS panel..but I'm wondering if maybe I don't absolutely need the insane speeds of the monitor I have been looking at. Truthfully, I don't play a lot of FPS games these days like CS:S; only sometimes, but I'd want to be able to play them at high performance in the future if I so choose. This makes me think that I could probably get away with a 1440p 60Hz monitor just fine, and I'd have better color reproduction and it'd just simply look better.

However, I also can't find a suitable 1440p 60Hz IPS monitor at a price I can afford. I was looking at this but it's too expensive. The only other alternative is the monitor you suggested earlier (Acer G257HU), but that is a 25" monitor. I've read that people swear by a 24" monitor if you're going 1080p, and a 27" monitor if you're going for 1440p. Period. And it doesn't look like I can afford a 27" 1440p IPS monitor (or a 27" 1440p TN monitor for that matter, either).

[Alphasus]

5 minutes ago, KocLobster said:

I'm also juggling the idea that I am admittedly not a competitive gamer, don't play in tournaments or anything, I just play games a lot...a large majority of my free time in fact. I feel your opinion obviously is a bit biased towards the 1440p IPS panel..but I'm wondering if maybe I don't absolutely need the insane speeds of the monitor I have been looking at. Truthfully, I don't play a lot of FPS games these days like CS:S; only sometimes, but I'd want to be able to play them at high performance in the future if I so choose. This makes me think that I could probably get away with a 1440p 60Hz monitor just fine, and I'd have better color reproduction and it'd just simply look better.

However, I also can't find a suitable 1440p 60Hz IPS monitor at a price I can afford. I was looking at this but it's too expensive. The only other alternative is the monitor you suggested earlier (Acer G257HU), but that is a 25" monitor. I've read that people swear by a 24" monitor if you're going 1080p, and a 27" monitor if you're going for 1440p. Period. And it doesn't look like I can afford a 27" 1440p IPS monitor (or a 27" 1440p TN monitor for that matter, either).

Yeah, but a higher pixel density will never look worse. So, 25" should reasonably be fine. Also, what is your price range? I see the differences between 1440p and 1080p every day, and the 1440p does look clearly better(explaining my clearly slanted opinion).

[KocLobster]

@Alphasus

Word, I understand that, I'm totally not slamming you for having an opinion on the matter. Because I am already spending ~$1600 on the system w/o the cost of the monitor, and I still have to have a small amount of money set aside for a desk and chair, my budget for the monitor is about $250, up to $300 as a absolute maximum. The cheaper the better though. 

[Camacha]

A clear opinion can often be seen in suggestions here. People either side with a certain camp (think Nvidia versus AMD) or have a strong bias towards a setup that is similar to theirs. This is often where advice goes wrong. We need to remember that our personal opinions are pretty much worthless. Indulge in them when you are buying for yourself, but leave them be when you are giving advice to others. It is all about helping people pick and buy the most appropriate system for their money, preferences and desires. Giving performance oriented advice to someone looking for silence or other things will no do. It is not even about advocating certain parts. Good advice is indexing what people need, expect and can afford. As long as people understand what different options there are and what implications they have, most folks are smart enough to make the final decision for themselves. There is no need to campaign (the one possible exception being someone who is clearly making a choice he is going to regret). We just need to explain their options and why each one might be suitable.

I have seen to many advice giving threads devolve quickly into heated my-setup-versus-yours-arguments, with personal opinions and agendas being pushed and the purpose of the thread being forgotten. This all while the internet can be, and often is, such a wonderful place, full of knowledgeable people and/or chances to learn new things. Embrace the diversity, and let us build everyone his or her own bespoke ultimate system

 

22 hours ago, KocLobster said:

I appreciate your post, this makes a lot of sense to me. I always try and pick components from Newegg that have as many reviews (favourable ones obviously) as possible. The monitor I chose has a ton of reviews and they are all very high. Rather than go through a ton of reviews on newegg, I'm going to look at a number of reviews from very reputable computer companies, like Tom's Hardware, PCMag, etc.

Even though consumer reviews can be a valuable addition to you research, professional reviews are where it is at. Even though some sites are better than others, you will more often than not be presented with a review that weighs all the pros and the cons. Consumer reviews tend to be unrealistically positive or negative. Either people feel swindled because of realistic or less realistic expectations, or do not want to criticize their new product they just spent hundreds of moneys on.

Regarding 1.1 and an i7: there does not seem to be a scenario in which the i7 is going to give an edge that is worth its money, and likely there will be little to no edge at all. We will know for sure when someone does a comprehensive suite of benchmarks, but for now I think the i5 is going to be both amazing and great value for money.

Edited March 28, 2016 by Camacha

[KocLobster]

@Camacha

Thank you again for your words of wisdom, they are greatly appreciated. This is frustrating for me because there is no clear answer, no clear choice of monitor that is better. I will visit Fry's when I get the chance to test both monitor setups; it's coming up to the approx time when I'll be able to buy my components, so itll be sooner rather than later.

This is what I figured about the i7. My system, and i5's in general are powerful enough already that getting an i7 just for KSP would be a large waste of money...not that I can afford to splurge on the i7 6700k anyways.

Going back to earlier discussed things, I wanted to confirm setting before I make a easily avoidable error. @Alphasus did you double check to make sure that I have enough room for all my exact components? I want to make sure that the heatsink/fan wont be touching or interfering with the RAM. Granted, it looks like pretty low profile, but doesnt hurt to check. Also, there's enough room for the GPU and anything else I'm forgetting?

[Camacha]

22 minutes ago, KocLobster said:

@Camacha

This is what I figured about the i7. My system, and i5's in general are powerful enough already that getting an i7 just for KSP would be a large waste of money...not that I can afford to splurge on the i7 6700k anyways.

Though the long story is for another moment, the short story is that the i7 will only yield benefits in certain, specific situations. Hyperthreading does not make a chip more powerful in every situation. Quite on the contrary: it only has effect if and when specific circumstances are met. Intel marketing did wonders with the i7 moniker, as it has 'the common man' convinced it is inherently superior to an i5, but that is not accurate at all. It has an extra trick that can yield a bonus, yet does not work with every workload. The truth is that most games have little to nothing to gain from hyperthreading. The technology simply does not line up with the workload required to take advantage of the i7 party trick.

It might be good to remember that the actual silicon is the same in an i5 and i7. It is physically the same chip, coming from the same machines, with the work being done by pretty much the same transistor design.

Quote

This is frustrating for me because there is no clear answer, no clear choice of monitor that is better. I will visit Fry's when I get the chance to test both monitor setups

Welcome to the real world The internet likes to pretend the world is black and white, while real life seems to insist it is all sorts of grey. Having a look at actual monitors is a good idea. When the difference is obvious, it is obvious. When it is not, well, the choice is not going to matter too much either way. Also, do not fall into the trap of always thinking you could have made a better choice If it works for you, it works for you.

Edited March 28, 2016 by Camacha

[Alphasus]

3 hours ago, KocLobster said:

Going back to earlier discussed things, I wanted to confirm setting before I make a easily avoidable error. @Alphasus did you double check to make sure that I have enough room for all my exact components? I want to make sure that the heatsink/fan wont be touching or interfering with the RAM. Granted, it looks like pretty low profile, but doesnt hurt to check. Also, there's enough room for the GPU and anything else I'm forgetting?

The RAM will not be interfered with. Just " use the other available PCI-E slot(s) for your video card(s) or turn the cooler by 90°. " Full compatibility list here(motherboard):GA-Z170MX Gaming 5 Compatibility Noctua(BOOKMARK THIS)

The RAM won't be protruded over, but you will need to rotate the cooler so that you can SLI in future. Or use the other slot. How far away will this computer sit from you? If I know that, I can do a noise estimate for you.

Edited March 28, 2016 by Alphasus

[KocLobster]

3 minutes ago, Alphasus said:

The RAM will not be interfered with. Just " use the other available PCI-E slot(s) for your video card(s) or turn the cooler by 90°. " Full compatibility list here(motherboard):GA-Z170MX Gaming 5 Compatibility Noctua(BOOKMARK THIS)

The RAM won't be protruded over, but you will need to rotate the cooler so that you can SLI in future. Or use the other slot. How far away will this computer sit from you? If I know that, I can do a noise estimate for you.

OK sounds good, thanks. Honestly don't expect to SLI anytime soon. The desktop will be sitting on the ground right next to my feet.

[Alphasus]

3 hours ago, KocLobster said:

Going back to earlier discussed things, I wanted to confirm setting before I make a easily avoidable error. @Alphasus did you double check to make sure that I have enough room for all my exact components? I want to make sure that the heatsink/fan wont be touching or interfering with the RAM. Granted, it looks like pretty low profile, but doesnt hurt to check. Also, there's enough room for the GPU and anything else I'm forgetting?

Then with the noise lowering case, noise levels should be very low to inaudible. I use louder and smaller fans, with a slower CPU that makes less heat and a non-noise silencing case. The machine is inaudible unless the CPU is under full load(i3 4170).

[KocLobster]

34 minutes ago, Alphasus said:

Then with the noise lowering case, noise levels should be very low to inaudible. I use louder and smaller fans, with a slower CPU that makes less heat and a non-noise silencing case. The machine is inaudible unless the CPU is under full load(i3 4170).

I can't wait then

I'm still ~6 weeks away from ordering my components, farther away than I realized, but still close.

[Alphasus]

21 hours ago, KocLobster said:

I can't wait then

I'm still ~6 weeks away from ordering my components, farther away than I realized, but still close.

That GPU may very well be the loudest part, coupled with the HDD. Not many quieter options though.

[Camacha]

Maybe it would be a good idea to post an updated list

[Alphasus]

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-6600K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor  ($254.99 @ Newegg) 
CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-U14S 55.0 CFM CPU Cooler  ($74.99 @ Newegg) 
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z170MX-Gaming 5 Micro ATX LGA1151 Motherboard  ($155.66 @ Newegg) 
Memory: Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-3000 Memory  ($79.99 @ Newegg) 
Storage: Crucial MX200 250GB 2.5" Solid State Drive  ($89.99 @ Newegg) 
Storage: Western Digital Red Pro 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive  ($134.99 @ Newegg) 
Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX 980 4GB Superclocked ACX 2.0 Video Card  ($503.98 @ Newegg) 
Case: Fractal Design Define R5 w/Window (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case  ($129.98 @ Newegg) 
Power Supply: EVGA SuperNOVA G2 550W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply  ($80.98 @ Newegg) 
Case Fan: Noctua NF-A15 PWM 140mm  Fan  ($22.98 @ Newegg) 
Case Fan: Noctua NF-A15 PWM 140mm  Fan  ($22.98 @ Newegg) 
Case Fan: Noctua NF-A15 PWM 140mm  Fan  ($22.98 @ Newegg) 
Case Fan: Noctua NF-A15 PWM 140mm  Fan  ($22.98 @ Newegg) 
Total: $1597.47
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2016-03-29 20:38 EDT-0400

Monitor is in the air.

@Camacha

@KocLobster

Edited March 30, 2016 by Alphasus

[Camacha]

I start to wonder who is buying the PC.

[Alphasus]

4 minutes ago, Camacha said:

I start to wonder who is buying the PC.

I have a partlist for him on PCPartpicker....

I just change it. If either of you want a link, or if he has a newegg shopping list then that helps.

[KocLobster]

3 hours ago, Camacha said:

I start to wonder who is buying the PC.

No worries, I'm quite happy with everything we've discussed. I've also got a couple cheap peripherals in my cart too; a $30 keyboard, a $50 headset, and a $20 dvd burner. It's at $1664 before the monitor. I've still got ~6 weeks until I'll be able to buy my parts, so I'm not in a huge hurry. I haven't gone out to Fry's yet to try monitors, that's definitely still up in the air. Honestly, unless I see a huge difference or have a huge preference for one setup or the other when I visit Fry's...I'll probably end up tossing a coin. It seems to be at that point in my head.

[Elthy]

It realy hurts to read " a $30 keyboard, a $50 headset " with that PC...

Dont buy headsets! You will get better quality when buying dedicated mic/headphones for the same price. E.g. a Zalman ZM-MIC1 and Superlux HD 681 (Evo) would be cheaper and yield better sound.