Stupidly hard challenge.

[Leo-MathGuy]

The challenge is simple. Using only ion engines from the very beginning, get a kerbal to Eve's surface, plant a flag, and return to kerbin.

1. ONLY Ion engines allowed
2. Stock
3. No rcs
4. You can use a rover to move your launch site to a higher place
5. No abusing Launch Stability Enhancers or anything like that to make your launch higher. The first stage must be a reasonable distance from the ground
6. Or is it actually impossible
7. EDIT: You can positively overclock ion engines, but not negatively (for infinite fuel)

SCORING:

+100 points for completing the challenge

+50 points if you did not move your launch site

+50 points if you did not use batteries

+20 points if you did not use RTGS

 

x1.2 points if you get 220 points (Did all the above)

Edited January 29, 2023 by Leo-MathGuy

[Nazalassa]

Although it seems to be a nice challenge, are you sure it's possible to complete it?

Spoiler

It can but needs some hacking, so...

[Maria Sirona]

Most definitely impossible

[camacju]

This is possible with sufficient abuse of propellers and magic wings (Stratzenblitz did it)

[James Kerman]

Hi @Leo-MathGuy, I've been around long enough to have seen members do something that was previously considered impossible however the challenge submission guide states that you must at least have attempted the challenge yourself.

Edited January 28, 2023 by James Kerman
Grammar

[Leo-MathGuy]

5 hours ago, Nazalassa said:

Although it seems to be a nice challenge, are you sure it's possible to complete it?

  Reveal hidden contents

It can but needs some hacking, so...

Thats the thing I dont know if it is possible, can an ion engine even lift itself in eve?

Edited January 28, 2023 by Leo-MathGuy

[Richmountain112]

Nope. Should be obvious if it isn't already.

Edited January 29, 2023 by Richmountain112

[Ultimate Steve]

Magic heat shield propellers and dragless fairings would probably allow this challenge to be completed. If propellers and aerodynamic exploits are not allowed, then I would say this challenge is probably impossible with a conventional craft.

It is possible to do an ion powered Kerbin ascent without aero exploits (Stratz or Bradley or someone did it I believe) but that relies on a high mountain increasing the isp of the ion engines. The tallest mountain on Eve likely wouldn't boost the isp enough to allow the ion engine to produce much, if any thrust.

Even then you still have to get a giant fragile frankenglider through Eve's atmosphere and off of Kerbin, which would require thousands if not tens of thousands of parts.

[Nazalassa]

14 hours ago, Leo-MathGuy said:

Thats the thing I dont know if it is possible, can an ion engine even lift itself in eve?

Without overclocking it, it can't even lift itself from bodies larger than Mun.

[Leo-MathGuy]

Ok tested it, an ion engine cannot lift itself with infinite fuel on the highest point of eve

 

Challenge edited: You can positively overclock ion engines, but not negatively (for infinite fuel)

[Teilnehmer]

21 hours ago, Nazalassa said:

Without overclocking it, it can't even lift itself from bodies larger than Mun

This is not accurate.

It's fairly easy to ascent from Duna using the ions.

It's also possible for Laythe and Kerbin with some part clipping and a huge effort.

On Eve, however, the ion engine's thrust is exactly 0, even on the top of its highest mountain. Only hacking the engine specs can help.

Edited January 30, 2023 by Teilnehmer

[Richmountain112]

Well, Duna and Kerbin both have atmospheres so overclocked ion engines could be used to power a plane or rotorcraft. Can't say the same for Tylo though…

Edited January 30, 2023 by Richmountain112

[Nazalassa]

20 hours ago, Richmountain112 said:

Well, Duna and Kerbin both have atmospheres so overclocked ion engines could be used to power a plane or rotorcraft. Can't say the same for Tylo though…

Well on Tylo it can still be overclocked and create enough thrust anyways...

[swjr-swis]

<whisper> The real problem is not TWR or fuel capacity. It's the pressure...

 

[Ultimate Steve]

On 1/30/2023 at 1:35 AM, Teilnehmer said:

This is not accurate.

It's fairly easy to ascent from Duna using the ions.

It's also possible for Laythe and Kerbin with some part clipping and a huge effort.

On Eve, however, the ion engine's thrust is exactly 0, even on the top of its highest mountain. Only hacking the engine specs can help.

I was aware that you could do up to Vall/Moho on ions. I was not aware you could do Duna. In testing I was unable to find a power storage/generation solution that was light enough. I could take off but I couldn't take off with enough power to reach orbit. What's the trick for that? Or would it involve staging?

[camacju]

9 hours ago, Ultimate Steve said:

What's the trick for that? Or would it involve staging

I remember Bradley Whistance used staged batteries to make it work, also he made significant use of body lift to increase his usable thrust.

[Teilnehmer]

On 2/1/2023 at 2:01 AM, Ultimate Steve said:

I was aware that you could do up to Vall/Moho on ions. I was not aware you could do Duna. In testing I was unable to find a power storage/generation solution that was light enough. I could take off but I couldn't take off with enough power to reach orbit. What's the trick for that? Or would it involve staging?

I've created a challenge. Try it.

 

[Teilnehmer]

On 2/1/2023 at 11:46 AM, camacju said:

I remember Bradley Whistance used staged batteries to make it work, also he made significant use of body lift to increase his usable thrust.

In my attempts, I used two Dawn engines at launch, and TWR was enough to ascend without lift.

The idea with lift is interesting though. I should try a single-engine craft.