[0.21] Hooligan Labs - Airship, Submarines and More

[Hooligan Labs]

Ooh, i see. Time to get practicing hot dropping mining rigs on the other side of Kerbin

I want to see the results! Someday we're going to get all of the screenshots/vessels/missions posted onto the wiki. You know, as backup, and for easy perusing of the awesome.

I was wondering about deploy-able envelopes. How hard would it be to create an envelop (graphene like the cirrus) that is designed to be deployed outside the atmoshpere for the purpose of holding LH2. The idea being some super-light tankage for use with modular tanks.

...(plus with my animating skills the thought of trying to animate even the Una is....makes my head hurts..)

I'd go something like this...

float resourcePercent = PartResource.amount / PartResource.maxAmount;
float animationPercent = this.m_Animation[this.animationName].time / this.m_Animation[this.animationName].length

if (resourcePercent < animationPercent * 0.99) // Slight hysterisis included
    this.AniState = AnimationState.PlayForwards;
elseif (resourcePercent > animationPercent * 1.01)
    this.AniState = AnimationState.PlayBackwards;
else this.AniState = AnimationState.Stop; // Would need to add this to logic

This would fall under what Bac9 describes as "high-tech". That is a heck of a rant he wrote.

Which is why I was posting that here where Hooligan might see it. I was temped to try canablizing a Una with config hacks for proof of concept but the shape is just all wrong. Using a rescaled Cirrus might work better.

Dunno was hoping for some feed back from Hooligan as my modding skills stop at cfg hacks.

Feel free to try that code. I think I'll do a submarine part first. Since it's been, you know, requested for a really long time.

Finally, for everyone asking about the launch pad you're going to have to check the thread for Extraplanetary Launchpads. I did not make that mod, though I kind of wish I did.

[Van Disaster]

Using a modified Ray as a heatshield is looking fairly promising - given NASA recently successfully tested an inflatable heatshield, has it crossed your mind to try one? the one they tested packs into a nosecone & inflates into a mushroom shape.

[Zeroignite]

Restarting. I didn't know the latter was an option. Trying.

EDIT: No luck. In-game console shows that the config is indeed set for "debug = false". I also tested the pad that Extraplanetary Launchpads comes with (which ships as debug = false), and it also spawns ships full of fuel. I'll take things there, as at this point it seems like a plugin issue.

Edited August 3, 2013 by Zeroignite

[elanachan]

I'm currently using 0.21, the current version of the airships, KAS and firespitter mods, and for some reason I have no yaw control when attempting to use a craft that makes use of two hecto envelopes. I know it's not an issue with my KSP install as crafts using stock parts for the primary base do not have this issue.

Edit: I found the issue, apparently having what's technically a vertically mounted command pod (in this case the MK2 lander can) makes the game think it's pointed straight up when it's actually flying horizontally, which messes with the orientation of the yaw. This was fixed by adding an unmanned pod to the front end and making it the command from location.

Edited August 3, 2013 by elanachan

[rosenkranz]

I'd go something like this...

float resourcePercent = PartResource.amount / PartResource.maxAmount;
float animationPercent = this.m_Animation[this.animationName].time / this.m_Animation[this.animationName].length

if (resourcePercent < animationPercent * 0.99) // Slight hysterisis included
    this.AniState = AnimationState.PlayForwards;
elseif (resourcePercent > animationPercent * 1.01)
    this.AniState = AnimationState.PlayBackwards;
else this.AniState = AnimationState.Stop; // Would need to add this to logic

This would fall under what Bac9 describes as "high-tech". That is a heck of a rant he wrote.

Feel free to try that code. I think I'll do a submarine part first. Since it's been, you know, requested for a really long time.

Heh, like I said, my modding capabilities stop at cfg hacks and that doesn't look like anything that would go in a config file. Is that code that would be directly patched into the plugin?

Honestly, i'm not thinking that the envelope would deploy as resources are added. In RL I'm pretty sure something like this would have to be fully deployed and initialized prior to any fuel actually being pumped into it. I was thinking it would be deployed with an inert gas for safety reasons but then how would you purge that prior to fueling. I didn't want to get too compliated cause i'm not the one that can make it, just suggest it

[Hooligan Labs]

Important submarine research was done today! First of all, going underwater is really hard. Even metal struts are buoyant in KSP!

Also, it looks like water density / pressure is not measured... So we cannot calculate the additional weight that a filled ballast tank would have based on the planet's liquid density.

This narrows down how a submarine could be done...

1) A "submarine control" part would allow for controlling the entire vessel's buoyancy.

And / Or

2) Individual ballast tanks to adjust

Heh, like I said, my modding capabilities stop at cfg hacks and that doesn't look like anything that would go in a config file. Is that code that would be directly patched into the plugin?

Yes it could be. It would need a lot stripped out, like buoyant force, and have to figure out exactly what resources are going in. But that should be about it.

Source code is included with the mod download for anyone interested.

[KhaosCorp]

Important submarine research was done today! First of all, going underwater is really hard. Even metal struts are buoyant in KSP!

~snip~

Also, it looks like water density / pressure is not measured... So we cannot calculate the additional weight that a filled ballast tank would have based on the planet's liquid density.

~snip~

This narrows down how a submarine could be done...

1) A "submarine control" part would allow for controlling the entire vessel's buoyancy.

And / Or

2) Individual ballast tanks to adjust

Yes it could be. It would need a lot stripped out, like buoyant force, and have to figure out exactly what resources are going in. But that should be about it.

Source code is included with the mod download for anyone interested.

Water pressure is actually messured...its just not applied to anything for some reason. The water pressure does not even scale right though, not that it matters. Was only showing 3.2atmos at 600ish meter depth!

I actually have some 'ballast' tanks I made when I did my testing, if you want em just shoot me a line and Ill send em to ya. One other thing i was doing that REALLY helped was using a bit of the ID float code (pre 0.21 of course) to cancle out some of the insane amount of float everything has.

@rosedkranz:

Typically RL fuel bladders are empty (even of air) till fuel is pumped in. This is actually done to simplify the system. If the bladder is totally void before fuel is put in then theres no reason for a purge/changeover system in place.

[JewelShisen]

Wanted to share my first Airship from 21.1

Runs on 44 XL Solar Panels on the top of the Airship. Uses KAS for landing on uneven terrain and Firespitter's Electric Engines for movement. Also has the Romfarer Laser Mod on it but it seems it can't steer the Airship for me. Not sure why though. But still made it to the Island Airstrip in one piece! So yay me!

[Deathsoul097]

Hello, newbie here, I was wondering if the airships came with the KAS anchor, or would I have to download KAS seperately? If so does anyone know if KAS has been updated to 0.21 or if it is already compatable?

[BigFatStupidHead]

KAS is a seperate mod from this, and seems to be fully compatable with .21

[Mihara]

2) Individual ballast tanks to adjust

That would be the variation to aim for, because it would enable offshore kethane drilling on Laythe. It's been done before, but only using fuel tanks as ballast, not terribly convenient.

[Zeroignite]

iirc, the hexcans mod has dense half-full ballast tanks.

[KhaosCorp]

iirc, the hexcans mod has dense half-full ballast tanks.

Wont work, for any submersible to work even 1/2 way decent the ballast youd need to be adjustable.

And off-shore drilling has been done with ALOT more than fuel tanks for ballast...I promise. I have personally drilled Kethane in depths upto 12oometers, from the surface and with a submersible. Fuel tanks for ballast is about the most ineffective way tbh, its better if your ballast material is a bit heavyer per unit and constant. My best sub tests I was using tanks i made with stock generator module to produce 'ballast' a resource weighting 0.25 per unit, each tank also had purge system. Had to use 6 tanks to get a 20m long sub to sink strait.

[Hooligan Labs]

But still made it to the Island Airstrip in one piece! So yay me!

Nice! I love landing airships at places like the dirt landing strip. It feels so much easier than trying to bring a spaceplane in.

KAS is a seperate mod from this, and seems to be fully compatable with .21

Yes indeed.

[Orphican]

Wont work, for any submersible to work even 1/2 way decent the ballast youd need to be adjustable.

And off-shore drilling has been done with ALOT more than fuel tanks for ballast...I promise. I have personally drilled Kethane in depths upto 12oometers, from the surface and with a submersible. Fuel tanks for ballast is about the most ineffective way tbh, its better if your ballast material is a bit heavyer per unit and constant. My best sub tests I was using tanks i made with stock generator module to produce 'ballast' a resource weighting 0.25 per unit, each tank also had purge system. Had to use 6 tanks to get a 20m long sub to sink strait.

Something like these?

[KhaosCorp]

Something like these?

Have never used those, but I think those are just deadweights yes? I was using tanks i could fill and empty with weight. Even my smallest test sub took nearly 250tons to sink, and it went down supper slow. To much weight for the vehicle to cope with on land. Also I should mention there is no middle ground underwater. Your either on the surface or on the bottom, its almost impossible to manuver in between. This is due to how KSP floats stuff.

[Starwaster]

Have never used those, but I think those are just deadweights yes? I was using tanks i could fill and empty with weight. Even my smallest test sub took nearly 250tons to sink, and it went down supper slow. To much weight for the vehicle to cope with on land. Also I should mention there is no middle ground underwater. Your either on the surface or on the bottom, its almost impossible to manuver in between. This is due to how KSP floats stuff.

Do tracked vehicles work underwater?

[BigFatStupidHead]

As to submarines, I had a coversation a while ago here. (It started a little earlier, but I think it's all in the quote-pyramid.)

Basically, you can edit the airships plugin to give negative buoyancy, and make your sub sink that way.

Edited August 5, 2013 by BigFatStupidHead

[nhnifong]

Goddamn convex colliders grrrr

[Hooligan Labs]

As to submarines, I had a coversation a while ago here. (It started a little earlier, but I think it's all in the quote-pyramid.)

Basically, you can edit the airships plugin to give negative buoyancy, and make your sub sink that way.

Thanks for the link! It is funny to know that negatives work for my airship. I never tested that.

Right now, every part in a vessel has a powerful (and magical) upwards buoyancy when it's in water. This causes such instability when attempting to go underwater. It is like having every part of your vessel be an airship balloon with weak glue holding it together.

I am in the process of making a completely separate plugin (HLBallast). The first thing I do is zero out buoyancy for everything that does not hold crew (and thus air). The vessel should float much more realistically... that is to say it would hardly float at all.

Attaching a "ballast tank" will allow for control very similar to the airship. The ballast tank can be adjusted from 0 to 100% ballast target, opposite of the way the airship works. Based on a suggestion from Khaos, the ballast is a resource that can be added to a ballast tank if it is "splashed" on a planet. This ballast liquid does nothing but weigh 1.021 tons on Eve (assuming hydrazine) or 1.000 tons/m3 on Kerbin, Laythe or elsewhere (assuming water).

Any % of a ballast tank that is not filled with liquid will be buoyant air.

I plan on using KSP's standard buoyancy (however it works) but if it is unusable I will do something like with the airship.

It should work like a real sub in the end. Altitude control (renamed depth control) and trim controls will be present. It might be even possible to save while floating above the ocean floor! But I make no promises yet.

Goddamn convex colliders grrrr

The colliders for the fins are actually rectangles, so yes there are invisible boxes around all of them. Sorry, mesh colliders would not work for that animated part, as it turned out after I had already modeled it.

[KhaosCorp]

You can use KAS or touch ocean floor to save. Using KAS to do it you have to adjust the weight of the plug and anchor/hook, otherwise once you release it will make a mad dash for the surface. Wasnt thinking and tried it with unmodified anchor on one of my smaller test subs...fliped the sub over trying to float up lol.

Not sure if the tracks work underwater...don't use them. TT mod wheels and stock wheels work.

Edited August 5, 2013 by KhaosCorp

[Kimberly]

Attaching a "ballast tank" will allow for control very similar to the airship. The ballast tank can be adjusted from 0 to 100% ballast target, opposite of the way the airship works. Based on a suggestion from Khaos, the ballast is a resource that can be added to a ballast tank if it is "splashed" on a planet. This ballast liquid does nothing but weigh 1.021 tons on Eve (assuming hydrazine) or 1.000 tons/m3 on Kerbin, Laythe or elsewhere (assuming water).(

Your work sounds exciting. I will note that seawater is denser than pure water, though. If we assume Laythe/Kerbin have Earth-like seawater, it should be about 1.025 tons/m³ at the surface, according to Wikipedia.

[Hooligan Labs]

Your work sounds exciting. I will note that seawater is denser than pure water, though. If we assume Laythe/Kerbin have Earth-like seawater, it should be about 1.025 tons/m³ at the surface, according to Wikipedia.

Ah good catch! It is reasonable to assume that Kerbin and Laythe have salty oceans. If anyone can figure out what Eve's "rocket fuel ocean" should have as density that would also help. Only the KSP devs may know that secret, though...

[BigFatStupidHead]

I plan on using KSP's standard buoyancy (however it works) but if it is unusable I will do something like with the airship.

My understanding of KSP's buoyancy is that it is calculated, but never actually gets applied. Wish I could find the quote.

[Hooligan Labs]

My understanding of KSP's buoyancy is that it is calculated, but never actually gets applied. Wish I could find the quote.

Would be useful to know. Something is happening to make stuff float in water.