Lagrange Proyect

[Rjoande]

Love the idea of this mod, but I've encountered a minor issue: in Career Mode, many contracts point to the Lagrange points since the game actually considers them to be planets (also "storyline" contracts, i.e., from Kerbin World-Firsts Record-Keeping Society), and even new strategies from the mod Strategia appear focused on the points. While orbital survey contracts are somewhat realistic (we actually do that IRL, like JWST or Euclid), things become a little weird when it is asked to land on a Lagrange point.

I guess future updates could consider a way to disable the L-points from contracts

[LucalisIndustries]

On 6/28/2024 at 5:15 AM, ScareCrxw said:

Hey, I've been encountering an issue with the Duna L2 point where it seemingly 'disappears'. I can still see it on the map, target it, but whenever I'm close to it, it's sphere of influence just disappears and I'm ejected into the sun orbit. Haven't had that issue with any other point so far

huh, will check it asap

[LucalisIndustries]

On 7/2/2024 at 4:26 AM, Rjoande said:

Love the idea of this mod, but I've encountered a minor issue: in Career Mode, many contracts point to the Lagrange points since the game actually considers them to be planets (also "storyline" contracts, i.e., from Kerbin World-Firsts Record-Keeping Society), and even new strategies from the mod Strategia appear focused on the points. While orbital survey contracts are somewhat realistic (we actually do that IRL, like JWST or Euclid), things become a little weird when it is asked to land on a Lagrange point.

I guess future updates could consider a way to disable the L-points from contracts

I must advice, do not try to land on them or even get excesively near, the way they works (cos of how ksp works) makes them unstable, that said, I don't know how to disable the contracts for them, I'll check on that and try to do a patch.

[Starwaster]

On 7/16/2024 at 11:20 AM, LucalisIndustries said:

I must advice, do not try to land on them or even get excesively near, the way they works (cos of how ksp works) makes them unstable, that said, I don't know how to disable the contracts for them, I'll check on that and try to do a patch.

You're doing Lagrange points as celestial bodies, right? It looks like the Contract system multiplies contract destination weight by a body's RecoveryValue. Try setting it to 0 for the Lagrange points. 

In the Properties node

Properties
{
	<various properties>
	ScienceValues
	{
		RecoveryValue = 0
	}
}

All fields you can set for a body's ScienceValues. (They default to 1 )

LandedDataValue 
SplashedDataValue
FlyingLowDataValue 
FlyingHighDataValue
InSpaceLowDataValue 
InSpaceHighDataValue
RecoveryValue

 

Not sure what you want to do with these, if anything.

flyingAltitudeThreshold 
spaceAltitudeThreshold 

CAVEAT: I don't know for a fact that this will stop contracts from showing up. I believe it will. They might show up anyway but immediately fail if accepted. (a lot of things depend on the destination weight, so deadline time, funds, science, it's reasonable to think that if a body has no value then the contract system shouldn't generate contracts for that body. If that assumption is wrong then you get the contracts anyway and they autofail/don't provide value)

Edited July 24 by Starwaster

[LucalisIndustries]

On 7/24/2024 at 12:39 PM, Starwaster said:

You're doing Lagrange points as celestial bodies, right?

It's the only way you can do them without principia.

On 7/24/2024 at 12:39 PM, Starwaster said:

Try setting it to 0 for the Lagrange points.

will do the try later, thanks for the idea!

[AmberAtelier]

Hey! I love the concept of this mod so much. I recently started using the ballisticfox update of the Beyond Home planet pack https://github.com/ballisticfox/BeyondHomePlanetMod. While I know what lagrange points are and how they work, I'm, admittedly, not familiar with how lagrange point calculations are made so I don't think I could figure out the Beyond Home system myself. Would you be willing to look into it? The core system has a binary star which might make things too complicated (or the fun kind of complicated) so you could likely just calculate it based on their Barycenter.

There's also the kcalbeloh planet addition pack which adds a black hole system which might be interesting to take a look at!

[LucalisIndustries]

On 8/25/2024 at 5:48 PM, AmberAtelier said:

Hey! I love the concept of this mod so much. I recently started using the ballisticfox update of the Beyond Home planet pack https://github.com/ballisticfox/BeyondHomePlanetMod. While I know what lagrange points are and how they work, I'm, admittedly, not familiar with how lagrange point calculations are made so I don't think I could figure out the Beyond Home system myself. Would you be willing to look into it? The core system has a binary star which might make things too complicated (or the fun kind of complicated) so you could likely just calculate it based on their Barycenter.

There's also the kcalbeloh planet addition pack which adds a black hole system which might be interesting to take a look at!

I'll check on them, the main thing needed is the orbital periods... which is not exactly simple because most times they're not defined as a number, you need to manually calculate them unless they're on the .cfg of the planet, but as KSP does the calculation automatically with the orbital data, it's not something you ussually write

[Iapetus7342]

On 9/22/2024 at 12:48 AM, LucalisIndustries said:

I'll check on them, the main thing needed is the orbital periods... which is not exactly simple because most times they're not defined as a number, you need to manually calculate them unless they're on the .cfg of the planet, but as KSP does the calculation automatically with the orbital data, it's not something you ussually write

You can install Planet Info Plus, which adds a configurable planet info menu that allows you to see their orbital periods.

Edited September 30 by Iapetus7342
for the love of me i cannot type

[LucalisIndustries]

On 9/30/2024 at 10:05 AM, Iapetus7342 said:

You can install Planet Info Plus, which adds a configurable planet info menu that allows you to see their orbital periods.

will check, but I think they're not as precise as I need, but will check.

[heakhaek]

Damn Lagrange points without Principia? Gotta try, I'd love to use Principia but I got disheartened when I saw on the KSS2 github that Principia is not compatible so I only have Principia on my RSS game files. Now i Can Lagrange points in my stock system though I'll have to wait like 2 hours just have the game start up since I have at least 20 mods.

[LucalisIndustries]

On 11/2/2024 at 7:58 AM, heakhaek said:

Damn Lagrange points without Principia? Gotta try, I'd love to use Principia but I got disheartened when I saw on the KSS2 github that Principia is not compatible so I only have Principia on my RSS game files. Now i Can Lagrange points in my stock system though I'll have to wait like 2 hours just have the game start up since I have at least 20 mods.

Tell me if you found any problem please, hope you like it!

[Bej Kerman]

On 11/17/2023 at 8:45 PM, Kerbart said:

I always felt that this was a rather obvious solution to having them with patched conics

Cause these act nothing like lagrange points.

[Kerbart]

1 hour ago, Bej Kerman said:

Cause these act nothing like lagrange points.

Since we're stuck with patched conics and spehere-of-influence based orbital mechanics, one has to improvise.  To have real  Lagrange points you'll need n-body physics. If you don't have that but you do want (semi-stable) fixed positions around planetary bodies, then you have to improvise.

There's a lot in KSP that doesn't act like anything in reality and we're still pretty happy with it.

[Iapetus7342]

On 11/7/2024 at 1:02 AM, Bej Kerman said:

Cause these act nothing like lagrange points.

It's better than nothing. Also this is the same system with comically-dense planets and a moon of a far-off gas giant that has liquid water on its surface so the lagrange points not lagranging is likely the least of your concerns

[Bej Kerman]

3 hours ago, Iapetus7342 said:

It's better than nothing.

Yes, for someone who doesn't mind their lagrange points acting like black holes. I've nothing against players who want that, but I do want to debunk the idea of this being an obvious solution that Squad somehow missed for so many years. Kepler's rules do a good enough job of estimating slingshot maneuvers and the like, but having black holes sitting at the L1-2 points is simply a bad approximation, one that Squad wasn't able to justify enough to actually implement.

3 hours ago, Iapetus7342 said:

Also this is the same system with comically-dense planets and a moon of a far-off gas giant that has liquid water on its surface so the lagrange points not lagranging is likely the least of your concerns

The KSP planets are  dense but it's nothing that breaks any laws of physics. There are things in real life with densities that compete with Kerbal, like white dwarves. Principia mostly agrees with the stock patched conics over how a vessel in a low orbit around Kerbin or Jool should behave. The planets being a bit dense isn't as bad realism-wise as having black holes sitting at each L1/2 point which have no effect on the planets - in which case, if Squad implemented that into stock, it would give newcomers a bad idea of how lagrange points behave.

Edited Friday at 09:50 PM by Bej Kerman

[Kerbart]

9 hours ago, Iapetus7342 said:

It's better than nothing. Also this is the same system with comically-dense planets and a moon of a far-off gas giant that has liquid water on its surface so the lagrange points not lagranging is likely the least of your concerns

Don't forget the little-green-men aliens

[Kerbart]

6 hours ago, Bej Kerman said:

Yes, for someone who doesn't mind their lagrange points acting like black holes. [...] but having black holes sitting at the L1-2 points is simply a bad approximation, one that Squad wasn't able to justify enough to actually implement.

The KSP planets are  dense but it's nothing that breaks any laws of physics. There are things in real life with densities that compete with Kerbal, like white dwarves. [...]

You're a bit selective in what you find acceptable and not. If the concern is that newcomers would get terrible ideas of how things work in the real solar system then you can scrap ³/₄ of the game and the super density ("a bit dense" whahahaha) is a big, heavy part of that.  It's your choice to say "it's totally acceptable" but it's still a choice and not the obvious unbiased demarcation you make it out to be.

[Bej Kerman]

1 minute ago, Kerbart said:

If the concern is that newcomers would get terrible ideas of how things work in the real solar system then you can scrap ³/₄ of the game and the super density ("a bit dense" whahahaha) is a big, heavy part of that. 

You don't? It's not like high planetary densities break the laws of physics (in case you missed it in my original reply, you can get similarly dense things in real life), and patched conics were good enough for the Apollo program. It's dishonest to say that's the same as littering the system with literal black holes and labelling them "lagrange points". My point being people don't understand why this isn't the obvious, simple solution they make it out to be. Dense 1/10th planets and Kepler orbits give people a good enough idea of how rockets launch and travel through space - black holes don't give people a good idea of how lagrange points behave.

5 minutes ago, Kerbart said:

It's your choice to say "it's totally acceptable" but it's still a choice and not the obvious unbiased demarcation you make it out to be.

It's only me and Squad in agreement.