Kethane Pack 0.9.2 - New cinematic trailer! - 1.0 compatibility update

[Majiir]

you think you could make a kethane deposit that always spawns near the KSC, just so we could test designs? or maybe make a scenario where that happens?

You can use the Debugger part to generate deposits underneath you.

[Mokmo]

I put the debugger on a ship, launched it and toggled the option. I'm not seeing anything, where should it be ? do i need to be in orbit ?

edit:(fresh install of the whole add-on)

[sadron]

so now a 16000 unit large kethane tank weighs 16 more tons ? That might make some of my miners unable to take off lol.

But i'm glad you've finally updated the whole thing, although it's a guaranteed deletion of the old maps just as i had finished putting some beacon landers on the biggest deposits after finally accepting that i was going to lose them no matter what.

But it's twice the Fuel/Oxi/Mono per unit! I'm ok with that.

Wait, it's now 16 tons heavier? Yeah I'll just stick with the hotfix someone made and wait until that dumb idea is done away with...

[Mokmo]

I have Kerbal Alarm Clock installed and somehow i see the debug console whenever i hover some scheduled items... kinda strange...

Quick Edit: It's whenever i have the debug console switch to on, it also prevents me from opening/ closing the alarm clock.

Edit 2 : Aaaand it's gone, just don't put 2 on the same ship

Edited June 6, 2013 by Mokmo

[KhaosCorp]

Wait, it's now 16 tons heavier? Yeah I'll just stick with the hotfix someone made and wait until that dumb idea is done away with...

Its not just more weight...it also produces more of other fuels per unit, it balances out. That was the whole point, balancing to other fuels.

There is a right and wrong way to voice your disapproval of something....just saying...mod devs do this for free

[Gaius]

Don't think of it as twice as heavy, think of it as the same weight takes up half the space. You want the same weight as before, use a smaller tank.

Edited June 5, 2013 by Gaius

[HoY]

Don't think of it as twice as heavy, think of it as the same weight takes up half the space. You want the same weight as before, use a smaller tank.

This. If your miner will no longer fly, build a new one with half the kethane storage. It will have the same mass when full, make the same ammount of converted fuels (more actually because of new efficiencies) and cost the same to get to orbit.

The new mass doesn't effect me since my mining op is all surface based, and only converted fuels are brought up to orbit.

[Sathurn]

You can use the Debugger part to generate deposits underneath you.

what debugger part, fresh install didn't find it, is it hidden?

[Skyllz]

what debugger part, fresh install didn't find it, is it hidden?

The Kethane debugger was a separate download until the forums were wiped.

Edited June 5, 2013 by Skyllz
Autocorrect screwed it up.

[GateCrasherVI]

Just wanted to drop in and say THANK YOU! I have been checking in at least once or twice a day on your progress Majir. Patiently I might add. I know you work on this plug-in voluntarily and for practically nothing. But I just wanted to help make it clear that for every 1 person out there being impatient and ungrateful there are ten of us who dearly appreciate your effort and will continue to patiently wait for your updates, and support your efforts to improve upon the KSP experience. If they recruit coders like I've heard rumor of the guys at squad doing, I'd definitely support your addition to the crew

I was looking over one of the original spreadsheet google docs that was tracking kethane development and couldn't help but appreciate the scope of the project you've taken on

Keep up the great work!

[KhaosCorp]

Kinda hard to see the map, sorry for that, but running 3 scanners here, on x100 warp, the mapping line is almost solid after single pass, id say 80% or so scan resolution

[SVoyager]

Just wanted to drop in and say THANK YOU! I have been checking in at least once or twice a day on your progress Majir. Patiently I might add. I know you work on this plug-in voluntarily and for practically nothing. But I just wanted to help make it clear that for every 1 person out there being impatient and ungrateful there are ten of us who dearly appreciate your effort and will continue to patiently wait for your updates, and support your efforts to improve upon the KSP experience. If they recruit coders like I've heard rumor of the guys at squad doing, I'd definitely support your addition to the crew

I was looking over one of the original spreadsheet google docs that was tracking kethane development and couldn't help but appreciate the scope of the project you've taken on

Keep up the great work!

Couldn't have said it better!! +1

Thanks alot Majir for this awesome work, keep it up!!

[quietsamurai98]

I know I sound like a total modding noob, which I am, but how do you add this? I cannot figure it out, and I have done a fresh game, the new plugin system, the old system, the way it says in the instructions, and more, yet I can't figure it out. Can anyone help me?

Edited June 6, 2013 by quietsamurai98

[sadron]

Its not just more weight...it also produces more of other fuels per unit, it balances out. That was the whole point, balancing to other fuels.

There is a right and wrong way to voice your disapproval of something....just saying...mod devs do this for free

Yeah but it doesn't make sense. Why would the empty tank suddenly weigh much more?

[DMagic]

Yeah but it doesn't make sense. Why would the empty tank suddenly weigh much more?

Not the empty tank, it's just the density of kethane that has increased, from 1 to 2 kg/L. At least I don't think the dry mass has changed.

[KhaosCorp]

Yeah but it doesn't make sense. Why would the empty tank suddenly weigh much more?

Ummm...what???

I think you need to look over things again. Mass of empty tanks went down a bit....

Example: the KE-TL80 (the largest tank) was 4tons dry mass....after update its 3.25tons dry mass. Granted the filled weight will change by a lot...but also how much fuel is able to be produced changes by a lot too.

[Honeybadga]

Hai, quick question here. Is there a way to fill up my Kethane tanks on the launch pad so I can test if my contraption will work?

[KhaosCorp]

Hai, quick question here. Is there a way to fill up my Kethane tanks on the launch pad so I can test if my contraption will work?

There is a debug for kethane that allows that, but not sure where to get it, also hyperedit will fill kethane tanks if used to fill ship....

other than that youd have to mine kethane and store it close to pad so you can pump it into rockets before launch...heh, def not a quick test method that last one

[Honeybadga]

There is a debug for kethane that allows that, but not sure where to get it, also hyperedit will fill kethane tanks if used to fill ship....

other than that youd have to mine kethane and store it close to pad so you can pump it into rockets before launch...heh, def not a quick test method that last one

Found the link to the debugger on page 1, post 1. Thanks for the advice, will have to try it this way.

[Hremsfeld]

Yeah but it doesn't make sense. Why would the empty tank suddenly weigh much more?

This is the opposite of what happened.

Tank masses have been reduced slightly, as has been pointed out above me. However, a liter of Kethane now weighs 0.002 tons, rather than 0.001 tons. If we had perfect converters, what this would mean is that the old mass would require five liters of kethane to produce one liter of LF/OX; (0.005 tons/LF) / (0.001 tons/Kethane) = 5 Kethane/LF. Personally, I find that a density of 0.0025 works best. It's exactly half the mass of LF/OX, so it requires exactly twice the storage space. A bit more streamlined, I thought.

On the note of conversions, Majiir: Why are the converters more than 100% efficient? I could maybe see them being 100% for a few under the logic of "Kethane is being used as LF/OX but needs to be compressed more," but I'm confused as to where this extra mass is coming from.

[HoY]

You can fill your kethane tank on the launch pad with hyper edit as well. That's how I do my testing

[KhaosCorp]

I gets no respect, no respect I tells ya!

Im just messing around....Dangerfield was awesome!

Just a little fyi to all my mining buddies, was able to get 8k units of kethane into LKO with a little test ssto ship using Cirrus envelope from Hooligan Labs.....

gonna do more testing but I think exporting raw kethane from Eve may be resource effective now in this manner.

Just thought Id share

[Majiir]

To clarify:

• The dry mass of tanks did not change in 0.4.4. The dry mass of the largest tank has always been 3.25 tons. The Kethane tanks are balanced a little differently than stock tanks in that their dry mass is not proportional to their capacity. Instead, larger tanks have a slightly better wet/dry ratio.
  
• The increased density does not nerf the resource. It makes it strictly more powerful. You may need to redesign some crafts in order to handle a full load of Kethane, but if you want to use old crafts, you could always just fill your tanks half way and get the same results.

On the note of conversions, Majiir: Why are the converters more than 100% efficient? I could maybe see them being 100% for a few under the logic of "Kethane is being used as LF/OX but needs to be compressed more," but I'm confused as to where this extra mass is coming from.

Originally, Kethane was 200% efficient, so one ton of Kethane would yield two tons of fuel. This was absurdly powerful, and it meant you could nearly double the overall specific impulse of any rocket by converting Kethane to fuel on-the-fly. The converter was slow, so you couldn't do this with large rockets, but it made small interplanetary miners way too easy to build.

When the conversion rates were reduced below 100%, it became more efficient to convert Kethane to fuel on the ground. Unless you knew you were going to need the versatility of Kethane, there was no reason to haul it into orbit or even store it in tanks. The dominant strategy simply changed.

My goal with this update was to eliminate either option as a dominant strategy and give players more interesting choices. With the better-than-perfect conversion, it may be economical to haul Kethane and convert it closer to where it's burned, but since the gain is fairly small, the mass of the converters and electrical hardware may end up overwhelming the benefit. It might be most economical to have Kethane converters stationed at a fuel depot, or as part of a service module, or on a transport, or... you get the idea. There's no longer one obvious "best" way to use Kethane.

If you need a way to rationalize the >100% efficiency, it's been suggested that the excess could be coming from Kerbal flatulence.

[KhaosCorp]

+1 for fart powered space ships!

And I made a mistake, honestly thought that big tanks were 4t mass before, my bad on that.

[ANWRocketMan]

Thanks so much for the update!

p.s. Would it be possible to make a very small ground-based survey unit? That doesn't stick out like the normal scanners?