Am I the only one who find the LT-3 Wallaby Legs incredible tumblesome?

[BechMeister]

I use them all the time as its the only landinglegs in game that are long enough that easily extend beyond the engines. But I find them utterly annoying... even if you manage your decent really careful, half the time I find they just propel the rocket into the air again and have it land on its side, and if you have but the tiniest side wasy movement the rocket will fall.. not to mention if you land on anything but perfectly leveled ground it will also fall.. I wish we had another set of large legs that had a wider stance on the ground. 

or were somewhat better at compensating the craft and keep it level to its weight line.. is it just me who are annoyed by these legs?

[steveman0]

I'm a bit annoyed with landing legs in general. They feel far too bouncy regardless of the type you choose. These should be shock absorbers, not springs. They need to dissipate the energy of touchdown, not reflect it. Certainly longer legs would help with this. As you noted, the travel distance available to landing legs is incredibly short before engine contact even with the lowest profile engines.

[Mutex]

I think you can adjust the spring settings and increase the dampening? Shame the default settings aren't great though.

[MechBFP]

Ya the default settings are ridiculous compared to the other legs. You are almost better off landing on the engine bell than using those things without adjusting the spring and damper settings.

Edited January 20 by MechBFP

[BechMeister]

2 minutes ago, Mutex said:

I think you can adjust the spring settings and increase the dampening? Shame the default settings aren't great though.

Yeah I just think there is something wrong with having to put it off auto and set it to max dampning. Also It can be very difficult to tune it.. to the point were some times it feels like you break your leg off if its dampening. And I talk about landing with sub 10 m/s I just had a rocket bounce at 5 m/s.

It just feels off to me. It would also be nice if it could bend a leg to keep its gravity center when on a slope x)

1 hour ago, MechBFP said:

Ya the default settings are ridiculous compared to the other legs. You are almost better off landing on the engine bell than using those things without adjusting the spring and damper settings.

Do you have any tips on how to adjust them? because I feel that when ever I make the springs strong the rocket flies off at the smallest touch of the ground. If i makes the springs weak and the dampers tough as nails.. it will fall/collapse under the legs if it does not land exactly level.

[MechBFP]

41 minutes ago, BechMeister said:

Do you have any tips on how to adjust them? because I feel that when ever I make the springs strong the rocket flies off at the smallest touch of the ground. If i makes the springs weak and the dampers tough as nails.. it will fall/collapse under the legs if it does not land exactly level.

I just reduce the spring and dampers about 50 to 75 % weaker each.

[rogerawong]

Don't overlook the utility of SAS to keep a leaning lander upright.  On high gravity worlds, the lander will likely slide down a slope if you land on one. But on lower gravity worlds, I've found SAS sufficient to keep the vehicle pointed upright.

For landing legs, I typically set springs to 2.0 and dampers to max.  But on high gravity worlds, you also need to be sure you have enough of them to handle the weight of your lander at the velocity with which you're touching down.  If you're landing faster than 5 m/s, that's a hard landing. 

To test landing legs, I fit a quick launcher on it and send it up about 1000 ft to then see what happens during the landing phase when I try to bring it back down.

[BechMeister]

I try not to land harder than 5 m/s - but it can be really difficult on Kerbin when returning a 1st stage because the throttle control is so finnicky.  I some times find that I'll hit sub 5 m/s 30m off the pad.. and then getting it the last meters down it ranges widely between 1-5 m/s. 

I just find too often that the bendiness of the legs is what causes it to fall? if that make sense.. I have not have issues using the other legs. My preferred leg right now is the medium sized one. I guess its also because landing a tall rocket with a long plumb line is working against the legs. (I have experienced that a rocket that was landed would tumble because the SAS induced swaying that got out of control)

I just wish we had some large landing legs with a wider base, or stiffer for landing returning 1st stages like a falcon 9 etc. 

[Bej Kerman]

I feel like the devs just changing the default settings or making "auto" mode more intelligent would fix 90% of problems.

[BechMeister]

Indeed. - I have a feelin that is easier said than done though x)

[steveman0]

But what are better settings?  Even with just the handful of posts in this thread there are recommendations to reduce both springs and dampeners and increase springs and dampeners.  I'm not sure which actually would work best without doing a complete live experimental test at touchdown using quick save/load.

Intuitively, the ideal spring setting would vary with the overall craft weight on the landing body adjusted based on how many legs you use as you only want it just strong enough to support the vehicle with full travel of the legs.  This isn't something that would be obvious for me to select given a new build and new planetary body that I'm planning to land on without at least some rule of thumb.  Full travel of the legs will vary depending on the dampening, which to me seems like should be something you always turn to the max as you want to absorb as much energy as possible with as few legs as you need for balancing the craft. 

I might need to do a controlled experiment at some point with all variations just to understand how these work in practice.

[BechMeister]

Sorry @steveman0I did not see your post before now.

I ended up adding an extra leg just for stability sake - I think the legs are fine for big landers. Its when you use them to land first stages they seem to suffer because the center of mass will automatically be high. So unless you land on the flattest of ground it will bounce quite a lot. - I just use the auto feature now... Dont adjust anything.

These are 3 examples of my rockets were use the legs:

 This one I had to add a 4th leg - which makes sense.. It fell mostly because 3 legs means it has an easier time to tip to the side.

On 2/2/2024 at 1:14 PM, BechMeister said:

That one leg simply boke off. It was frustrating.. and even if I liked the look of the 3 legs 3 engine symmetry. I knew I needed 4 legs to help it not lose legs or fall over so easily. I really wish we had some better large legs

The final design ended up looking like this: (4 legs between each engine section)

This one is a smaller much lighter 1st stage - and it also jumps around some times.. but I have a lot of Δv left when coming down.. SO i can really take my time finetuning the landing so I hit at 1-2 m/s: 

On 1/28/2024 at 3:36 PM, BechMeister said:

That rockets issue is its tall.

 This is the third rocket I have issues with the 3 leg config. That one is very light though - its only 10t when full... So when it comes back empty there is not a lot of weight to it. But again.. 3 legs for aesthetics:

On 1/24/2024 at 5:45 PM, BechMeister said:

the 3 leg configuration is very "fragile".. and prone to falling... I really dont like the LT-3 Wallaby legs.. but unfortunately it's the only thing we have that can extend beyond the engines.

H.T.V. safely on the ground

I dont think they are unreasonable designs? In any case.. I have found that I just need to hit 1-3 m/s for them not to jump like mad.. I dont know if its an issue with the legs.. or really just an issue with how finicky it can be to do fine maneuvering when landing.. Or I'm just a pleb who need to get better at it x)

I guess I just wish we had larger landing legs with a wider stance, and or less spring tension in the legs - I have contemplated using landing gears some times.. just because they seem to be more stable xD

Edited March 17 by BechMeister