Firespitter propeller plane and helicopter parts v7.1 (May 5th) for KSP 1.0

[Madrias]

Okay, I'm excited for propellers again! No more needing to muck with .cfg values to make a prop suitable for some applications (I've built some fiendishly heavy planes, one of which could carry two orange tanks... and did because it used them for drop tanks) for some of my very strange aircraft.

[Renousim]

Can you add a bomb bay part for the firespitter plane fuselage?

Also can you make a cockpit like the Wildcat's?

Edited May 10, 2014 by Renousim

[Snjo]

The model tweaking works now. Then there's the actual messing with the engines based on those tweaks.

[Renousim]

Oblong bomb bay please

[Hellbrand]

is it in the Pre-Release folder yet? also an oblong version of this would be killer

[Justin Kerbice]

@snjo: don't want to bother you (too much ) with a few comments about the last (? not sure, 6.3) pre-release:

- you've miss the compatibility version requirement in readme (what's the point of making compatibility check which seems useless right now without adding this data ?), it works wells in 0.23 despite the warning. I didn't do intensive testing, but at least, the propellers I tried... "propells"

- it will be great if files are better sorted inside the archives, as

archiveroot/

GameData/

Firespitter/

all dirs and files which are needed ONLY

others stuffes like crafts, doc, source

(crafts could even be in Ships/SPH or VAB)

Less people will complaint about troubles, more people will use it, more people will be happy

- there is still the "magic propellers issue" (max thrust, without being at max speed)

by the way it's strange that some propellers loose thrust very fast with altitude.

And air intake seems useless with electric propeller (closing it don't change anything, the propeller still works well).

- I see you have add buoyancy on the landing pad, is it made of hollow plastic (or filled with hot hydrogen ?), it is not suppose to float at all.

Hope this will not let you think I don't like FireSpitter, I really love it and in fact just start to create crazy things again with it

[Snjo]

The version warning is a standardised thing made by another warning, which uses the newest version available from any mod incorporating it, which is why the message isn't more custom to FS. The fact that a version is mostly compatible with a different game version does not mean it shouldn't raise a flag, because it had been recompiled using a specific KSP version's DLLs, and might have serious issues in other situations. In those cases we as modders can't support those errors and need to make that clear.

I don't agree with putting files outside the FS folder in the zip. I want things near and self contained. I know I at least hate trawling through files and folders to clean stuff after removing the main piece. I also don't want to force my dodgy craft files on anyone. As for the gamedata folder in the zip, that varies wildly between mods, and until there is automated install through curse, I'll keep it traditional, for it will surely break with a double layer of gd folders.

Which propeller is magic, and under which circumstances?

I actually added the buoyancy module to the skids so they would be able to sink, unlike stock parts

[Justin Kerbice]

The version warning is a standardised thing made by another warning, which uses the newest version available from any mod incorporating it, which is why the message isn't more custom to FS. The fact that a version is mostly compatible with a different game version does not mean it shouldn't raise a flag, because it had been recompiled using a specific KSP version's DLLs, and might have serious issues in other situations. In those cases we as modders can't support those errors and need to make that clear.

Right ! I forgot those "good" old inconsistencies between binaries and libraries.

(it's more a trouble when data/sub entries are located in different place)

I don't agree with putting files outside the FS folder in the zip. I want things near and self contained. I know I at least hate trawling through files and folders to clean stuff after removing the main piece. I also don't want to force my dodgy craft files on anyone. As for the gamedata folder in the zip, that varies wildly between mods, and until there is automated install through curse, I'll keep it traditional, for it will surely break with a double layer of gd folders.

For the last 0.23 compatible release and this one (6.3), the extracted folder gives:

FirespitterPre 6.3/

Example Craft

Example Craft FAR

Fan Submitted Craft

Firespitterpartsguide_december21_2013.pdf

Flags

Parts

PluginData

Plugins

Props

readme.txt

Resources

Sounds

Source

Spaces

textures

in bold: files which have no business in a proper working install

there is no GameData which allow an easy drag & drop to a KSP install and if people are unaware of it, they install all into the main KSP dir, not GameData which is wrong.

And your long document states:

Unzip the contents of the zip file directly to the KSP folder, so the files end up in the GameData

which will not make things works as expected (outdated doc ?)

For the craft you can use:

optionnal crafts/Ships/SPH

/VAB

and in doc "if you want to use the crafts provided, copy the Ships directory into your GameData folder..."

Which propeller is magic, and under which circumstances?

The electric one (with yellow blades, designed for planes) and the second VTOL propeller (the smallest I guess).

Try a simple craft: the smallest probe core, one z1k battery, the propeller on top, start engine, throttle up => your craft will immediately goes up very fast (ok it is very light) before even the blades rotate at some speed.

(I know, I know, it's not a plane, it's not suppose to be used like that but... even on a plane, like the electric mustang, the craft may start moving forward a while before blades spin fast enough to really create the thrust). I may be interesting to compare with KAX propellers.

I actually added the buoyancy module to the skids so they would be able to sink, unlike stock parts

funny, you have to add buoyancy to make it sink ! KSP world is very fun .

(I just though simple: buoyancy = don't sink, I was wrong)

[Snjo]

I'm sure there are inconsistencies in the vaious docs which should be looked at, thanks for the tip.

The source has to be available somewhere according to the terms for modders, and before I was using github, I needed to put it there. These days I should really just list the address to the repository in the readme (which I don't agree is in the wrong place for reasons). It would actually be easier for me to not pacck it each time

Having files like the guide in the mods own folder just makes sense to me, because people who install the mod will have it around after the install, and it really helps me to get the info out there any way I can. I five people read the pdf version of the guide and then don't post an unneeded question in this thread, it is worth it. I know lots of you know that it is available online (cause I have the stats which tells me 13000 of you have looked at it since august), but not everyone does, or has a proper internet connection, so a pdf is handy too.

The electric propeller spinning up slower than the thrust is a visual issue you can't solve without slowing down response time while in flight too. It will go away if I add a custom engine module to that engine. It will also fix the issue of electric engines sometimes being able to run on just air after 0.23.

[Pliuple]

Hey Snjo,

Probably someone already asked but: is there a way to put ur wheel smoke animation and sound to other wheels/mods ?

Cheers in advance

[Snjo]

Hey Snjo,

Probably someone already asked but: is there a way to put ur wheel smoke animation and sound to other wheels/mods ?

Cheers in advance

The FSwheel module takes great care to be compatible with the wheel setup present in any landing gear that works with the stock landing gear module.

Just replace ModuleLandingGear or whatever it's called with FSwheel, and fill in values for that module, plus the FX nodes above that you will find in a comparable FS wheel.

In most cases you could probably just copy and paste in the complete FSwheel module section (plus the FX section) from the tail wheel and delete the stock one. Unless I added some extra bits in that wheel that will confuse something.

[Snjo]

I'm developing the new FSengine module alongside the propeller tweaking module, and things are going pretty great.

This custom engine module fixes all the stuff wrong with the stock one, at least for use in atmospheric engines.

In the stock module, you can't vary thrust efficiency based on atmospheric density, the fuel consumption just goes up. In FSengine, you have some new efficiency curves to play with:

atmosphericThrust sets how much thrust you get at different atmospheric densities. Fuel consumption remains constant.

velocityLimit is basically the same as the velocityCurve in stock, tells you how much thrust to give at different speeds. (Might need to look at the direction the engine is facing relative to vessel heading to make sense though)

fuelConsumption sets how much fuel is spent at the curent throttle setting. Allows for fuel use when idling, and fuel use ramping up as the throttle is higher.

throttleThrust sets the thrust at various throttle settings. This means built in afterburner support. In tandem with fuelConsumption, you could have a steep thrust and fuel use ramp up at 70%-100%.

It also uses resources without the mass based ISP concept. You just set the ratio of fuels to drain, and it uses that resource based on the fuelConsumption. That means no more FScoolant. Electricity just got better

And there's the concept of an internal engine RPM, which ramps up at a set rate, but is divorced from the throttle setting, meaning you can have quick engine response, but slow start up and shutdown. (If you flameout, the engine ramps down slowly, providing less and less thrust, unless it's set up to lose it all immediately). For the propellers, this means the visual RPM is finally directly tied to the actual engine thrust output capacity.

And finally, some pictures of the engine tweak in action

Edited May 19, 2014 by Snjo

[Justin Kerbice]

I'm developing the new FSengine module alongside the propeller tweaking module, and things are going pretty great.

[...]

this means the visual RPM is finally directly tied to the actual engine thrust output capacity.

Good to see you still improve your mod and for the RPM: great thanks

All those incoming improvements looks very great.

[Castun]

So I've just started to play around with the texture switcher feature of the plugin, and was toying around with procedural fairings trying to get it to cycle multiple textures, but was having some issues. If I want it to swap the texture for the entire model, does it need to have a sub object name defined still or how does that work?

To start I tried out a single texture and normal map, and it lists it as an alternate texture in the VAB info for the fairing, but clicking the next texture button doesn't do anything.

[Snjo]

So I've just started to play around with the texture switcher feature of the plugin, and was toying around with procedural fairings trying to get it to cycle multiple textures, but was having some issues. If I want it to swap the texture for the entire model, does it need to have a sub object name defined still or how does that work?

To start I tried out a single texture and normal map, and it lists it as an alternate texture in the VAB info for the fairing, but clicking the next texture button doesn't do anything.

internally in the part there isn't really a concept of "the whole model". You need to specify the name of the gameObject which holds the mesh you want to swap textures on. You can specify several objects, or just the one.

If the mesh is on the root object that held the KSP Part Tools in Unity, it might get confused by KSP renaming it, so make sure the mesh is a child of the Part Tools object.

If you turn the debug mode on, you can use the List Objects button to list all the names of the gameObjects inside the part, if you don't have access to that info already.

if you haven't already done so, read up on it in the docs

[Castun]

Yep, already read up on the documentation and the comments in the config. With the List Objects button, there are several objects being listed so wasn't sure which to use. Would it be the ProceduralFairings/sideModel(clone) ? Thanks again for the help!

[Snjo]

There's really no way of knowing ahead of time which model is the correct one. And unfortunately you need to restart the game for each attempt because of the way the nodes load. I notice there are several objects with the same name listed, which could be a problem. If you are looking to alter the mesh of the third out of five identically named objects, that won't work, because it will only check the first one. I made the module expecting that people had access to the unity setup of the model, and could name things sensibly

I'm thinking more and more that I need to write an updated version of the module which uses a different format, which looks uglier in the cfg, but which can be reloaded while running the game, and handles duplicates better. We'll see

[Castun]

Yeah, I tried model, and the sideModel(clone) including the path shown and neither worked. When I click the next texture button, nothing new popped up in the debug window either.

Thanks for the help, maybe play around with it some more.

[Snjo]

You know how it's pretty much impossible to get the gear on straight in the hangar, because you have no reference for what is actually straight?

Press some key (F2 right now), and the guide lines appear!

[NathanKell]

Combined with this http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/80638-0-23-5-Part-Angle-Display-View-and-set-accurate-angles-for-parts-in-editor and the world becomes a bright and shiny place!

[Snjo]

Since a part of the problem with wheel alignment is cameras not being very accurate for lining up directions, I added in extra guide lines at the end of the red cardinal direction lines, which indicate the alignment offset on the relevant axis. It also has the added benefit of making it obvious for colour blind people which lines belong to the gear, and which are the cardinal direction (cause it's the ones with the dongles on the end).

Now you won't have to carefully position the camera top down to check the toe in.

Also the module just looks for the first available wheel collider in any part it's assigned to, so it will work with any gear ever made by anyone

Edit:

This is what happens when you just can't stop tweaking things that worked many hours ago

Angle numbers in semi world space.

Edited May 21, 2014 by Snjo

[Guest]

Snjo, I wonder if it'd be possible to make an addition to your wing module that would give it FAR-compatible parameters (zeroing FAR-side ones in the process)? Ferram mentioned that it's outside the scope of FAR, but maybe you could do something like that.

The animated wing module has a lot of potential, a lot of stuff could be done using it, but unfortunately, it simply doesn't work with FAR. You can already detect the presence of FAR, so would that be possible to support it's flight model Firespitter-side?

[keptin]

Press some key (F2 right now), and the guide lines appear!

This. This is incredible. Years of pain and suffering and now we have a solution for easy gear alignment.

[Dilin]

These lines, I'm crying... No longer do my wheels cause the death of innocent kerbals.

[Snjo]

Take it for a spin

https://github.com/snjo/Firespitter/releases/tag/v6.4.PRE1

v6.4 Pre-release 1

-Tweakable engines! Adjust the number of propeller blades, their length, and the engine size in the hangar!

-Wheel alignment guides end the scourge of crooked gear placement. Press F2 to toggle guide lines.

-A new engine module that supports atmospheric engines much better, separates engine start up time from throttle response, and allows for electric engines without the extra FScoolant resource.