(0.23) Wayland Corp. Development and released download Thread (new parts)

[Mujun Kross]

I would like to make a couple of suggestions here as well.

--add more nodes to the truss so that things can be attached to it. I have added two nodes on the inside vertical edges of the truss, one forward and aft. I modified the central node so it actually comes up and touches the bottom of the truss as well as added 3 more nodes on top of the truss. I added four nodes to the bottom of the truss...two forward and two aft to help with connecting the vtol engines. Also I added nodes to the vtol engines as well. With the nodes on the bottom of the eagle i can add two engines to the front and two to the rear for extra lift.

-- the forward and aft section of the truss...make it like a cargo module. maybe something with doors that open and close so that items can be put inside and used. currently I do like logan does and zoom inside the structures and attach power or rcs etc...but having something with cargo doors that open would be kinda cool.

I love this ship and finding this mod helped me decide to actually give this game a try. It will always be part of my mod collection. Thanks for the excellent work.

[GrnTigr]

The logo that you used for the Bobcat Lifter is interesting, considering it is the logo of the college that I am attending: Montana State University in Bozeman.

[Logan.Darklighter]

I would like to make a couple of suggestions here as well.

--add more nodes to the truss so that things can be attached to it. I have added two nodes on the inside vertical edges of the truss, one forward and aft. I modified the central node so it actually comes up and touches the bottom of the truss as well as added 3 more nodes on top of the truss. I added four nodes to the bottom of the truss...two forward and two aft to help with connecting the vtol engines. Also I added nodes to the vtol engines as well. With the nodes on the bottom of the eagle i can add two engines to the front and two to the rear for extra lift.

Say! If you've made those kinds of mods, would you be willing to make them available via dropbox or some other method like what I do with Mediafire? I'd like to check that out and I'm sure others would like to test that as well.

-- the forward and aft section of the truss...make it like a cargo module. maybe something with doors that open and close so that items can be put inside and used. currently I do like logan does and zoom inside the structures and attach power or rcs etc...but having something with cargo doors that open would be kinda cool.

I kinda disagree, if only because I can't figure out where you'd put that that would make sense. Do you mean on the flat parts of the truss facing where the pod goes? Like where I put the LLL CBM connectors?

But you did spark an idea - what if you could make the truss -or even the gear/rcs pods - into something that has the KAS box module supported? Just a small box that could carry a few things like replacement RCS Blocks or fueling pipes. Nothing big - that's what you build modular pods for! But something that could allow you to repair minor bang-ups.

For that matter - add the KAS code to the Wayland RCS blocks so they can be stored in a KAS box and also grabbed/placed by Kerbals?

I love this ship and finding this mod helped me decide to actually give this game a try. It will always be part of my mod collection. Thanks for the excellent work.

It does work quite well with the overall Kerbal Aesthetic doesn't it?

[Logan.Darklighter]

Something else I noticed that could be modded - I've noticed that the Command pods as of .23 all have a small amount of RCS fuel integral to them. Maybe we should add that to the Eagle pods? That's not even something we need bug Devo to do. That's a .CFG mod that we could make. All we need to do is agree on how much it should hold and then send him the fixed code to add to the mod?

(I need to see if there's any reference for where the RCS thrusters on the command pod are supposed to be. And no - those round bits on the sides and top/bottom aren't them - I was looking into that at one point and those are supposed to be directional antennae.)

[Neutrinovore]

My requests would be to have all of the parts touching each other so that they look, you know, attached. Not hovering magically 6 inches (s.w.a.g.) away from each other while you're flying.

Also, hopefully we could get the center of mass balanced both in regards to the engines (all of them, VTOL and Main) as well as the RCS blocks. Well, I know the canon placement of the RCS thrusters on the landing gear pods may not necessarily allow complete balancing, but please do what you can. I really want to use the Eagle Mk3, but there is something seriously wonky about that thing. No matter where or how much I added trim weights or extra thrusters, or slid the engines around, I could NOT null out some small amount of off kilter torque (using RCSBuildAid, of course), which in turn made the thing totally unflyable, either manually or with MechJeb. Yes, I know, it's not supposed to work with MechJeb, but therein lies the problem: If a ship is so unbalanced that MJ can't fly the thing, I know I sure as H-E-DoubleToothpicks ain't gonna be able to! And anyway, that makes no sense, because having just a few Kn of thrust imbalance should be able to be corrected for with reaction wheels (which I had a lot of torque. I mean a LOT. At one point I think I had over 300 units of torque bolted to that thing, and it STILL wouldn't fly straight or hover to save its life) and/or RCS thrusters, of which I had also attached many.

Okay, sorry, rant over. Sigh... you know, thinking and talking about this again... yeah, I'm gonna go re-download it again tonight and give it another try, lol! It's just too cool of a ship to NOT be able to use in this game.

However, I did mean what I said, requesting a look at getting everything with the model and attachment nodes and weight distribution worked out so that the Eagle is a well-balanced and easy to fly ship again.

'Nuff said. Later.

[Neutrinovore]

Oh, one more tidbit. Yes, please keep working on Eagle upgrades, just please don't forget about the Avatar Valkyrie shuttle, I need that mother to haul some big stuff, lol.

[Logan.Darklighter]

My requests would be to have all of the parts touching each other so that they look, you know, attached. Not hovering magically 6 inches (s.w.a.g.) away from each other while you're flying.

Mk 3 Eagle has that problem fixed.

Also, hopefully we could get the center of mass balanced both in regards to the engines (all of them, VTOL and Main) as well as the RCS blocks. Well, I know the canon placement of the RCS thrusters on the landing gear pods may not necessarily allow complete balancing, but please do what you can. I really want to use the Eagle Mk3, but there is something seriously wonky about that thing. No matter where or how much I added trim weights or extra thrusters, or slid the engines around, I could NOT null out some small amount of off kilter torque (using RCSBuildAid, of course), which in turn made the thing totally unflyable, either manually or with MechJeb.

Really? I haven't noticed a major imbalance at all, unless I specifically introduced it myself.

Yes, I know, it's not supposed to work with MechJeb, but therein lies the problem: If a ship is so unbalanced that MJ can't fly the thing, I know I sure as H-E-DoubleToothpicks ain't gonna be able to! And anyway, that makes no sense, because having just a few Kn of thrust imbalance should be able to be corrected for with reaction wheels (which I had a lot of torque. I mean a LOT. At one point I think I had over 300 units of torque bolted to that thing, and it STILL wouldn't fly straight or hover to save its life) and/or RCS thrusters, of which I had also attached many.

Have you tried the mods in my sig? I edited the Eagle Command Pod and ASAS to have the proper amount of torque. And the latest version of Mechjeb is quite snappy and holds the ship on a line quite well. Seriously - try the craft files I put together for it and let me know what you think?

[Neutrinovore]

Mk 3 Eagle has that problem fixed.

Really? I haven't noticed a major imbalance at all, unless I specifically introduced it myself.

Have you tried the mods in my sig? I edited the Eagle Command Pod and ASAS to have the proper amount of torque. And the latest version of Mechjeb is quite snappy and holds the ship on a line quite well. Seriously - try the craft files I put together for it and let me know what you think?

Erm... grumblegrumblegrumble...

Okay, I'll give it another try, plus your pods & stuff. But I don't use Kethane, I know you have one that uses that, so that'll be no-go for me. Also, about the gaps between the Command Pod and Engines to the truss, I do remember that there is still a small, but noticeable, gap between the command pod and truss. Yes, it's much smaller, but still.

Anyway, like I said, downloading and installing (again) tonight, let me mess with it over the weekend and we'll see. 'K? 'K.

[Mujun Kross]

All,

as requested by Logan. Here is a copy of my cfg file that I use for my Eagle. INTERNAL_Wayland_SpaceEagle.cfg (you will need Module Manager for this).

A run down of what it does.

--rescales everything up by .25, however if you prefer the smaller size just comment out the rescaleFactor entries as the nodes will work just fine.

--Both fuel truss. Adjusts the current attachment nodes as well as adds several more. Adds three nodes across the top, moves the central node up to the bottom of the truss span, adds 4 nodes on the bottom to attach engines.

--command pod, 2 crew, MechJeb, SAS, TacLifeSupport

--SAS, changes values.

--Landing Legs, added KAS module containers (if you use this you need to make sure you balance out the load, otherwise you will kerbal into the ground)

--MK2/3 Engines, added 2.5 gimbal to both, modified node attach for ION engine to fit better

--VTOL/VTOLMK3, added 2.5 gimbal to both. added attach nodes

--Also if you use the XQuad i modified the scale and node placement.

If you use MechJeb you can leave control in the cockpit. You can get away with just using the Translatron(?) only, to control altitude. I also use the SmartSAS...but in KillRot mode only to help keep the thing straight.

The stock horizontal engines just do not have the thrust to get into orbit on their own if you fly it like a traditional rocket. Useing both VTOL and horizontal engines or VTOL engines only you can get into a 150k orbit. I have done it carrying the big orange tank on top (36 tons) with some fuel to spare)

Please keep in mind YOU CAN FLY THIS COMPLETELY MANUAL...it is more hands on obviously but nothing like it is stock.

I am currently working on adding real fuel to the config file...however this is proving more difficult that I thought. If anyone wants to help me out with the math that would be great...i wont turn down the help .

Thanks and as always thanks to Devo for this excellent mod!

Mujun

[Mujun Kross]

o, and if you really like a challenge fly this with FAR installed...I love that mod but it does not work with this ship.

[drtedastro]

Hello, with all of the great stuff regarding the Eagle, is there a forum thread dedicated to it??

[Marscommander]

The stock horizontal engines just do not have the thrust to get into orbit on their own if you fly it like a traditional rocket. Useing both VTOL and horizontal engines or VTOL engines only you can get into a 150k orbit. I have done it carrying the big orange tank on top (36 tons) with some fuel to spare)

The Ion ones seem to be able to push it up into orbit, I have done it before...

I will probably start using the eagle more as I have pretty much done all I can with shuttles

And as for eagle upgrades? I find that the best upgrade is to strap the enormous wheels to each gear pod It tends to be a bit, well, Awesome.

[Mujun Kross]

? I find that the best upgrade is to strap the enormous wheels to each gear pod It tends to be a bit, well, Awesome.

I like using tracks from the Caterpillar mod.

[Devo]

Hello, with all of the great stuff regarding the Eagle, is there a forum thread dedicated to it??

Probably should be, i just keep all my stuff in here so i can keep track of it.

Mobile reception is shoddy today, line technician coming over tomorrow to sort my adsl problem.... for someone that grew up without the internet, I sure can't do without it these days! wish me luck and if im on tomorrow you know its gold!

[Pigbear]

The Ion ones seem to be able to push it up into orbit, I have done it before...

I will probably start using the eagle more as I have pretty much done all I can with shuttles

And as for eagle upgrades? I find that the best upgrade is to strap the enormous wheels to each gear pod It tends to be a bit, well, Awesome.

oh god, that blue is awful and hurts my eyes from an LCD monitor. I don't understand why people can't just type normally.

[Mujun Kross]

all,

updated the config file. Changed the KAS container from the landing legs to the truss tanks themselves. Also made the RCS blocks so they can be added to the KAS containers.

INTERNAL_Wayland_SpaceEagle.cfg

still working on real fuels

[Devo]

Ergh.. just realised the Eagle cockpit is going to need to be much longer, there is no way two kerbals are fitting in the IVA right now.. I'll see how far it needs stretching before it looks stupid. Going to re-do the cockpit pretty much in full.. starting from the front of the ship to the back, without pausing like before, so It should all look pretty uniform when done. Once I get to the first fuel tank, Illl finish the command pods for it, as the rest of the ship doesn't need too much more work after that. The landing legs are a little more stable but still suffer from some wobble. Would we maybe be better having them permanently attached or an option to have them perma-attached to the sides of the structure? if they are perma-attached, theres one way to get rid of all wobble.

[Logan.Darklighter]

That reads like you were in a real rush to type it all out quick, Devo!

So let me ask you some questions to clarify if you don't mind?

Ergh.. just realised the Eagle cockpit is going to need to be much longer, there is no way two kerbals are fitting in the IVA right now.. I'll see how far it needs stretching before it looks stupid. Going to re-do the cockpit pretty much in full.. starting from the front of the ship to the back, without pausing like before, so It should all look pretty uniform when done.

Are you talking about just the IVA, or the whole cockpit pod here?

Once I get to the first fuel tank, Illl finish the command pods for it, as the rest of the ship doesn't need too much more work after that.

Are we still talking about the cockpit pod here? Or the fuel truss tank? Or are you talking about doing a subtle re-work of the proportions of the whole entire ship?

The landing legs are a little more stable but still suffer from some wobble. Would we maybe be better having them permanently attached or an option to have them perma-attached to the sides of the structure? if they are perma-attached, theres one way to get rid of all wobble.

Is the landing gear bug occurring because of wobble from the attachment points on the pods to the main body?

I'd like to point out that in the construction in either the SPH or in the VAB that when you select a landing leg pod, it is NEVER defaulted to the correct orientation. You always have to rotate it yourself to match up the nodes. Could that have something to do with the wobble? Is there some phantom torque still inherent in the design and is that a symptom of it?

One other idea - perhaps it would be worth it to have double attachment nodes on the main body and the pods to match up with each other in the correct orientation. Place them just fore and aft of where the current nodes are. Touching even. That way I think any twisting might be damped out, especially if you're using Kerbal Joint Reinforcement. (And I do - and highly recommend it).

Making the main body and the pods into one unit would work also and it would reduce part count. But... I don't know. Does anyone else feel like it would be "cheating" to do it that way? Plus there's always the fact that those landing pods work really well on other types of ships other than Eagles! Or using the main truss tank without the pods for a purely orbital ship not meant to land at all. (like the one in the episode Dragon's Domain) I'd hate to lose that!

Plus - it's just so... KERBAL to have the parts fly loose when you crash!

Then again - the original Eagle was modular, sure. But you never saw them utilize pods on a different structure. In terms of canon - it was basically:

Cockpit Pod - Main body (plus landing gear and engines) - and the mission pod. And it was really only the mission pod and the command pod that were supposed to come loose from the rest of the ship.

Then again, perhaps the Mk 4 Eagle should simply come with both options? Allow the player to make their own choice.

I'm willing to test anything you want to do of course.

Edited February 17, 2014 by Logan.Darklighter

[Neutrinovore]

Ahem, by the way, Logan...

Yeah, I'm a convert now.

[Logan.Darklighter]

Hey hey. Good to know, Neut. And Devo - you might be interested in the following from the Dev blogs for .24 development:

Improved Part-to-Part JointsThere is one unassuming line in the Unity 4.3 changelog that made a world of difference to us. I'll quote it here in fact: "Physics." Joints can now have separate anchor points configured for both connected rigidbodies. What this means is that the era of rockets 'dancing' on top of their engines is coming (finally) to an end. We are completely re-doing the joints, to have much more control over how they link together, and not least, how much we want them to be bendy and wobbly. We're not eliminating the wobble altogether, as that would actually be removing a lot of what makes failures fun. We're aiming to have better control over it, so we can have wobbly bits where we want them to wobble, and more rigid connections where things are supposed to be firmly attached.

Perhaps hold off on a final decision regarding the "bendy" pods until .24 when you can see what the above will mean?

[Devo]

Sorry for the colour reply, still dont have internet here, am on a mobile connection in the middle of the outback.. apparently tomorrow a tech is coming to fix the adsl port at the interchange.. been waiting 4 weeks! :/

That reads like you were in a real rush to type it all out quick, Devo!

No, just on a phone and didn't see the lack of spaces

So let me ask you some questions to clarify if you don't mind?

Sure!

Are you talking about just the IVA, or the whole cockpit pod here?

The whole cockpit. The IVA is the actual inside of the cockpit, not another fake IVA Tardis crap where the inside is 50x bigger than the outside would allow. No, this new cockpit has an animated opening door and you actually have to go up to the seat in the cockpit to "Enter cockpit" So to facilitate the seats and actual instruments etc, I bumbed the length of the nose up by 0.5 meters, its hardly noticeable to be honest.

Are we still talking about the cockpit pod here? Or the fuel truss tank? Or are you talking about doing a subtle re-work of the proportions of the whole entire ship?

Entire ship is being reworked, fixing colliders, improving engines, going to finally do the emissives for the rear engines, and might even try my hand at particles now its supported.

Is the landing gear bug occurring because of wobble from the attachment points on the pods to the main body?

I would imagine so, so in reference to your post a couple down from this, yeah im waiting on 0.24 and seeing if they fix that wobble, sci fi stuff need not wobble.

I'd like to point out that in the construction in either the SPH or in the VAB that when you select a landing leg pod, it is NEVER defaulted to the correct orientation. You always have to rotate it yourself to match up the nodes. Could that have something to do with the wobble? Is there some phantom torque still inherent in the design and is that a symptom of it?

This is very possible, due to the fact the orientation was done incorrectly in the beginning is one of the reasons I want to re-work the parts. I mean, the legs are not hard it's not like I need to do 4, it's just a lefty and righty, they took surprisingly little time as opposed to actually balancing it out for flight.

One other idea - perhaps it would be worth it to have double attachment nodes on the main body and the pods to match up with each other in the correct orientation. Place them just fore and aft of where the current nodes are. Touching even. That way I think any twisting might be damped out, especially if you're using Kerbal Joint Reinforcement. (And I do - and highly recommend it).

One of my pet hates has been attachment nodes, pretty much from day one. I add them later on as an afterthought, this time around I'm doing them one by and and making sure all orientations are correct.

Making the main body and the pods into one unit would work also and it would reduce part count. But... I don't know. Does anyone else feel like it would be "cheating" to do it that way? Plus there's always the fact that those landing pods work really well on other types of ships other than Eagles! Or using the main truss tank without the pods for a purely orbital ship not meant to land at all. (like the one in the episode Dragon's Domain) I'd hate to lose that!

You know, I thought always of making a single section like Redspars, but if you recall we always talked about adding all these different modules, and to be honest I think I'm at the stage I can do it.. the last 4 weeks of hardcore blender study has taught me some new tricks

Plus - it's just so... KERBAL to have the parts fly loose when you crash!

Exactly :)

Then again - the original Eagle was modular, sure. But you never saw them utilize pods on a different structure. In terms of canon - it was basically:

Cockpit Pod - Main body (plus landing gear and engines) - and the mission pod. And it was really only the mission pod and the command pod that were supposed to come loose from the rest of the ship.

Then again, perhaps the Mk 4 Eagle should simply come with both options? Allow the player to make their own choice.

I'm willing to test anything you want to do of course.

Well, you will be first on the invite when it's ready to fly, or at least parts of it are. Like if the cockpit and IVA is done, I can give that to you to throw on the old ship for testing purposes.

If all goes well with this, we can continue making the alpha base as planned and all the bits and pieces, and make it more a complete mod. Like anything, it all takes time but thats something I have alot of at the moment so I am optimistic!

[Neutrinovore]

Hey, Logan and Devo, great to know that the Eagle is in the process of continual improvement! My only concern right now is you guys' discussion of resizing things, particularly this quote:

"Entire ship is being reworked, fixing colliders, improving engines, going to finally do the emissives for the rear engines, and might even try my hand at particles now its supported."

The only thing that concerns me about this is that, well, now that Logan has converted me to using his LLL based Pods, I hope that the length of the truss section doesn't change so much that this part has to be reworked, because I have quite a few of what I'm calling 'ModPods' getting ready to be sent all over the Kerbolar system to make bases. If the Eagle gets changed, size-wise, that means that the Eagle Pod would have to be redesigned, meaning that if I want to upgrade the Eagle Transporter I would have a bunch of ModPods out there that I wouldn't be able to pick up. Just sayin', something to consider for you guys.

Anyway, I don't want the above to cause you to think that I don't LOVE this ship! Now that I've finally taken the time to get it tweaked and adjusted to my satisfaction, it's all I use now. Well, FOR now, I'm sure I'll go back to building other types of craft eventually, it's just that the Eagle is so darn handy to use, lol!

Alright, keep on keepin' on, guys. I just wanted to throw my 2 cents in about that one issue. Later!

[Devo]

Hey, Logan and Devo, great to know that the Eagle is in the process of continual improvement! My only concern right now is you guys' discussion of resizing things, particularly this quote:

"Entire ship is being reworked, fixing colliders, improving engines, going to finally do the emissives for the rear engines, and might even try my hand at particles now its supported."

The only thing that concerns me about this is that, well, now that Logan has converted me to using his LLL based Pods, I hope that the length of the truss section doesn't change so much that this part has to be reworked, because I have quite a few of what I'm calling 'ModPods' getting ready to be sent all over the Kerbolar system to make bases. If the Eagle gets changed, size-wise, that means that the Eagle Pod would have to be redesigned, meaning that if I want to upgrade the Eagle Transporter I would have a bunch of ModPods out there that I wouldn't be able to pick up. Just sayin', something to consider for you guys.

Anyway, I don't want the above to cause you to think that I don't LOVE this ship! Now that I've finally taken the time to get it tweaked and adjusted to my satisfaction, it's all I use now. Well, FOR now, I'm sure I'll go back to building other types of craft eventually, it's just that the Eagle is so darn handy to use, lol!

Alright, keep on keepin' on, guys. I just wanted to throw my 2 cents in about that one issue. Later!

No intention of changing the truss size, if anything I would be making my pods to the size of the LLL pods as they are a perfect fit. The eagle also is to scale so there isnt alot I can do to change the sizes anyway, most people wont even notice the longer cockpit.

[Neutrinovore]

No intention of changing the truss size, if anything I would be making my pods to the size of the LLL pods as they are a perfect fit. The eagle also is to scale so there isnt alot I can do to change the sizes anyway, most people wont even notice the longer cockpit.

Oh, awesome, thank you! Now I'm REALLY looking forward to the next version!

[Devo]

omg my internet is back on .. it took them a month to get this remote connection sorted... for a kid that grew up without the internet, as an adult I almost started getting the shakes without it lol...

So we are back on board! will start posting screenies and videos again (and mods of course)

but for the meantime I need to kick some ass in War Thunder.. .