(0.23) Wayland Corp. Development and released download Thread (new parts)

[techno65535]

Oh god. No. Please stop.

[UltraVires]

Oh god. No. Please stop.

Oh God Yes! Meme Time!

Jayne+Vera=Forever.

[Deadweasel]

Oh god. No. Please stop.

Oh God Yes! Meme Time!

This landing is gonna get pretty interesting.

Define "interesting".

Oh God, oh God, we're all going to die?

[DoubleOSeven1]

This landing is gonna get pretty interesting.

Define "interesting".

Oh God, oh God, we're all going to die?

This is the captain. We have a little problem with our entry sequence, so we may experience some slight turbulence and then - explode.

[Neutrinovore]

"We're gonna explode?!? I don't wanna explode!"

[Logan.Darklighter]

Back on topic:

I inquired over on the MechJeb thread about the issue with the "POGO" effect when trying to use KEEPVERT with VTOL flight as I've done in the past with the Eagle.

Sarbian said:

The problem is that the thrust of the VTOL engine is perpendicular to the "forward" of the craft. I added some code so MJ see that an engine that is not aligned with "forward" provide less trust, and 0 trust if perpendicular.

So the translatron don't know how much trust the Eagle has and do the POGO dance. If you put a command pod pointing up and control from there you'll it works.

I never thought of vtol when adding that. I need to think about how to handle this case cleanly.

Also - in response to further query by me trying to clear up why this was changed:

MJ needs to know precisely the thrust provided by the engine for many of its functions. If your engine are angled they provide less trust so MJ needs to know it.

O... kay? I'm still not sure why it worked before yet there's a problem now.

But between asking questions and testing, I've come up with some flight observations and at least one work-around for other Eagle Pilots. So listen up, here's the scoop:

In-line thrust is not affected by the POGO oscillations. Any craft that is the classic "stand on its tail" and thrust flies and hovers with MechJeb's Translatron KEEPVERT function just fine.

However: In-line thrust can be re-defined by a part where you can click on "control from here". Such as another cockpit, a probe, or a docking port.

I always put a Jr. Sized docking port on top of the truss of my Eagles, just in case. In the past I haven't had to use it to hover. But now it's going to be necessary to use it if I want to fly with the automatic throttle control that I have used in the past. Most of the time I can fly it manually no problem. But those delicate "trick" manuevers you've seen me do, like flying through the tunnel on the KSP complex or flying the Eagle into the back of a carrier? That's been made more difficult with this change. Not impossible. But more challenging. Requires more set-up to do and changing from horizontal to vertical automatic thrust control is a bit tricky. It has to be done QUICKLY otherwise you'll flip out of control.

Be very careful about how you place a docking port on top of the truss. Otherwise you'll wind up with controls reversed and make it harder on yourself to manuever.

Here's an odd thing - but possibly good under the right circumstances: If you have both the VTOL and the Main rear engines on at the same time and turn on KEEPVERT? No POGO effect at all. But as soon as you turn off the main engine, the POGO returns.

One bit of solidly good news: latest update of MechJeb definitely is a LOT more precise in keeping a ship on exactly the right heading with no wobble. It works with the RCS thrusters with much more "Snap" and holds an Eagle (and any other ship) very solidly on course. And it now has a "Smooth Throttle" option which increases and decreases the throttle gradually instead of just SLAMMING it to maximum everytime MechJeb fires the engines. Between those two new features, flying the Eagle in "semi-manual" mode by means of the SURF or Kill Rotation modes just got a lot easier.

Also updated for .23 is Kerbal Joint Reinforcement. I can't recommend this mod highly enough. It really helps damp out any remaining wobbliness in the Eagle's parts and makes it very solid. It also has done a lot to damp out the "landing gear bug" though it's not gone completely.

Further testing I'm about to do: Going to see if MechJeb's autoland feature will work with the Eagle if it's controlling it through a docking port on top of the truss. Also want to test the PX-2 Shuttle with the updated mods and see how that goes. I'll have an updated report in about an hour or two.

EDIT:

Wow. So yeah. Automated landing with MechJeb on the Eagle via a top-mounted truss docking port? It works.

It's a HEART STOPPER, but it works!

If you've seen a couple of my videos, you know I like to actually fly the Eagle in to land more or less under constant throttle and a gentle angle of approach. Even if I'm coming in vertically, I'll still do so usually under a low throttle setting just to keep the speed manageable.

A MechJeb landing from orbit is... intense. Aerobraking and then dropping in vertically on the KSC complex and ONLY firing the VTOL engines at what seems like the last possible moment in a suicide burn! Yeesh!

No doubt that's more fuel efficient than my method. But it's not so easy on the nerves! LOL

As for the PX-2 shuttle, the new MechJeb mods don't do as much for it, though I THINK they're helping a little. I've tested with varying reaction wheels and I think the PX-2 needs a total of about 40 (which can be split between the cockpit pod and the ASAS) for best results.

Edited January 9, 2014 by Logan.Darklighter

[Xeroxas]

The WV8 Air scoop does not seem to work. ive done a clean install of KSP and the Wt-51 mod, to make sure the error is not being caused by any other mod.

by not working i mean it does not generate air resource.

[wasmic]

Does anybody know if there's a Suicide Burn timer mod somewhere? It'd be fun to use with the eagle (and drop pods).

[UltraVires]

Does anybody know if there's a Suicide Burn timer mod somewhere? It'd be fun to use with the eagle (and drop pods).

Not sure there is a Burn timer anywhere, Unless you try Kerbal Alarm Clock. But I'm not sure that would do what your wanting. The old Mech-Jeb used to do a pretty good suicide burn for the landing auto pilot. But the new one has switched into a burn all the way down mode. (which is really only slightly less efficient if you do it right.) The best way I know to do a suicide burn is to use MJ, or Kerbal Engineer to get your ship's TWR for the body your orbiting, and just do some math. The way I do it is just guess-stimating the speed and distance. But I like to slow down higher up, and come down the last 1000 meters or so pretty slowly, cause I'm not that great and landing...

[wasmic]

I once saw something, I don't know if it was an old version of mechjeb or KER, which had a "Suicide Countdown" data field, which was simply how many seconds you had to turn on the engines to avoid your kerbs going splat. I think I'll just use drogue chutes that deploy in the last moment, and then use the engines to kill the last 30 or so m/s of velocity. Or I could just change the mechjeb touchdown velocity to 5 m/s, most things will survive that, and mechjeb will land it faster. I prefer to fly my things myself though, and only use mechjeb for things I can't do myself.

[Deadweasel]

Does anybody know if there's a Suicide Burn timer mod somewhere? It'd be fun to use with the eagle (and drop pods).

What about automated lander rockets?

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/61294-WIP-XT-Landertron-Smart-Retrorockets-for-Landers-and-Spaceplanes-v0-06a-12-28

[Devo]

Reading this thread with popcorn and giggles.. thanks for making my dreary week a bit better..

just popping in to say I am literally in the midst of boxes and crap at the moment, packing up and moving this week. I have mobile internet, but it's pretty limited in gigabytes, so I won't be on 24/7 until I get my new internet sorted out, which seems a grey area at the moment as I am moving to a fairly remote area, I'll post a picture when we finally get there... hopefully.. still have alot to move.

One thing I will say about where I am moving, It is SO far from the city (about 5 hours from the nearest big city) that the lights don't affect the sky!!! Where I live now, which is smack bang in the middle of Sydney, where at night you can see a mere handful of stars and a few constellations due to the city lights..

Where I'm moving there is literally no ambient light as it's mostly farmland, so yeah the sky up there is amazing - I don't think I've ever seen that many stars or things in the night sky, it's jam packed, not a space of black sky to be seen, just an abundance of super novas and possible other earths out there.

Does anyone know any good photographic tricks to taking shots of stars, or specifically night sky? I find it really hard with the cameras I have, I'd love to show you what I get to see there.

[drtedastro]

Devo,

Try starting with http://www.astropix.com/

I will send you more links as I dig them back out of my archives.

I have an observatory in my backyard and spend most clear nights with my scopes taking pic's while I crash kerbals.

you will never believe what is out there and how lucky you are to be moving to a truly 'dark' location.

Best of luck to you..

DrTedAstro

[Logan.Darklighter]

Where I'm moving there is literally no ambient light as it's mostly farmland, so yeah the sky up there is amazing - I don't think I've ever seen that many stars or things in the night sky, it's jam packed, not a space of black sky to be seen, just an abundance of super novas and possible other earths out there.

Ahh that takes me back. I've SEEN that sky a couple of times in my life. Once at the edge of the Grand Canyon. The other somewhere in New Mexico a few miles off of I-40 behind a row of hills blocking even the occasional headlamp from the highway.

The time at the Grand Canyon was the most memorable. We were there doing the usual touristy thing. And I remember seeing that sky at night looking up as we were setting up the camper and I think I wanted to go to the rim of the canyon to see it. By sheer happenstance, there was a group there called "The San Francisco Street Astonomers Club" and they had actually set up reflector telescopes there at the little parking area on the rim.

While I was waiting my turn to see the Galilean moons of Jupiter and the rings of Saturn, I could literally see satellites going by overhead in orbit. NOT airplanes! I knew what those looked like and this was completely different! Lovely lovely sky ballet against the Milky Way. There on the high plateau in the clearest air imaginable next to the deepest crevasse on the continent. It was an amazing night.

[Marscommander]

Does anybody know if there's a Suicide Burn timer mod somewhere? It'd be fun to use with the eagle (and drop pods).

If you go to the Custom Window Editor in MechJeb2 there is a suicide burn counter that you can add to a window, or make a new window with it. I personally added it to Surface Info.

[Marscommander]

Ahh that takes me back. I've SEEN that sky a couple of times in my life. Once at the edge of the Grand Canyon. The other somewhere in New Mexico a few miles off of I-40 behind a row of hills blocking even the occasional headlamp from the highway.

The time at the Grand Canyon was the most memorable. We were there doing the usual touristy thing. And I remember seeing that sky at night looking up as we were setting up the camper and I think I wanted to go to the rim of the canyon to see it. By sheer happenstance, there was a group there called "The San Francisco Street Astonomers Club" and they had actually set up reflector telescopes there at the little parking area on the rim.

While I was waiting my turn to see the Galilean moons of Jupiter and the rings of Saturn, I could literally see satellites going by overhead in orbit. NOT airplanes! I knew what those looked like and this was completely different! Lovely lovely sky ballet against the Milky Way. There on the high plateau in the clearest air imaginable next to the deepest crevasse on the continent. It was an amazing night.

Sorry for the double post.

Yep, you never really forget looking at the stars away from the city lights. I have a 8" Newtonian telescope, and it gives great views of the moon and Saturn's rings.

[Texfire]

If you go to the Custom Window Editor in MechJeb2 there is a suicide burn counter that you can add to a window, or make a new window with it. I personally added it to Surface Info.

That's a very useful tip, thanks!

[wasmic]

If you go to the Custom Window Editor in MechJeb2 there is a suicide burn counter that you can add to a window, or make a new window with it. I personally added it to Surface Info.

Thanks, that'll be helpful when used with FloorIt to instantly put throttle to max.

[Devo]

Devo,

Try starting with http://www.astropix.com/

I will send you more links as I dig them back out of my archives.

I have an observatory in my backyard and spend most clear nights with my scopes taking pic's while I crash kerbals.

you will never believe what is out there and how lucky you are to be moving to a truly 'dark' location.

Best of luck to you..

DrTedAstro

I'll give it a shot, thanks. Looks like its time to upgrade to a DSLR camera.. guess I better get finding a job soon

2 more days of moving then i'm done, omg that first cold beer is going to taste soooo good.

[hydran101]

Is the Valkyrie going to be released? If it is already i'm a idiot.

[Logan.Darklighter]

Is the Valkyrie going to be released? If it is already i'm a idiot.

Devo's in the midst of a major house move. So no - hasn't been released. But it I think he had all or most of the modeling work done. It's supposed to be one of the least complex/low part count mods he's done. So I think once he's got his computer and all set back up again with internet access etc he'll likely be able to complete it fairly soon therafter.

[Marscommander]

Thanks, that'll be helpful when used with FloorIt to instantly put throttle to max.

FloorIt! What a name! that's one of the best kerbal mod names I have ever heard... Lol

[Logan.Darklighter]

I've done a reworking and update of my Eagle Mods and Pods files. I've updated the link in my sig below and it appears to work for me. Could someone else check it and see if you're getting the proper files?

I've added an explanatory "Read Me" Text file to the package explaining what mods I use and that the user will need in order for the craft files to load plus the usual "How to Unpack this" etc. And a couple of piloting tips to get started.

I've added some new pods and goodies you might be interested in, plus modded the originals. All the pods have landing gear now. I've resized LLL's landing struts to a workable size (and included those parts in the download so they'll overwrite any existing LLL landing gear - fair warning).

Here's some more pics of the new stuff. This new pod is based on the pod seen largely in Season 2 of Space 1999. It has extra thrusters which can be activated. Though this pod isn't significantly heavier than a normal passenger pod and therefore doesn't need them most of the time. I WARN you - activate them only when you REALLY need them. As they suck down fuel FAST. What's really useful about this pod is that with its docking ports it can neatly serve as a "hub" between other modules placed down by other Eagles to form a connected base. You'll see more of this below.

Below is a "Garage Pod" for small rovers and other small craft that maybe you want to launch from orbit. If you have Bobcat's DEMV Mk 5 "Ant" Rover it's a perfect fit. But any micro rover can be carried. The KAS modules in fact carry extra equipment suitable for repairing and even building one from scratch!

Below is a Greenhouse pod to be hooked up to a ground base. Pretty self-explanatory. Oh - if you right click on the module the shutters can be open or closed.

So would you believe that this beefy looking rover...

...fits snugly under the Eagle Truss?

What do I call this rover? Why - it's a "Beagle" of course.

It's pretty heavy though, which is why this Eagle has the extra lift package attached to the truss. The fuel lines are set up to go both ways. Which results in the fuel being drawn from the extra engine pods FIRST, then you can leave them attached as long as needed until you get to the proper altitude and then pop the modules free. Once at a low gravity world like the Mun or Minmus, the Eagle can handle the mass of the Beagle just fine. The launch package is only needed to bust loose of Kerbin's gravity.

The purpose of the Beagle is to move other modules around. It's set up so that the docking CMB port on the back will line up perfectly with any of the other modules and move them around. If needed, you can store small rover wheels in the KAS boxes under the fenders and attach them to the module you want to move temporarily. On Minmus I've found that the rover has enough torque on its own to push the other modules around without the need for the extra wheels. At least on the ice flats. On the Mun it might be another story.

Here's Eagle 5 having just delivered and docked the latest module for Minmus Base Alpha.

After receiving some extra fuel from the bases Kethane reserves, Eagle 5 undocks and smoothly lifts off and away, leaving the base personnel to finish integrating the new module and inventorying new supplies aboard.

And here's the base after a few more deliveries. Probably about as big as it's going to get at this point. (Pretty laggy!)

Edited January 17, 2014 by Logan.Darklighter

[Logan.Darklighter]

I left this ship in orbit as a source of fuel supply. It's a good design and nothing wrong with it. But since I didn't send it up with any cargo it really didn't have anything to do once I'd figured out how to fly it. Later I'll use it to ferry something big. But the first one I left up unmanned until I had drained about 4/5 of the fuel. Then I decided to de-orbit it for a spectacular crash. But at the last minute I decided to try and see if I could save it with a "suicide" burn of the remaining fuel.

What I got was a classic Eagle style crash! Not complete destruction, but spectacular in a different way! This ship is never going anywhere again, but it's a great little "bone yard" to visit for later!

[123nick]

are all the parts updated? like the egg escape pod? or R2D2?