LLL - Lack Luster Labs - Development Thread

[The Destroyer]

The train defnitley takes longer than 6 minutes to leave the station. It seems almost random.

[Gaalidas]

> New 1.25m engine: Provides an alternative to the LT-Vs early on. Cheap, nice TWR, but inefficient and not as powerful. Good for smaller craft, but outclassed by the LTVs quickly.

I'm really liking how this part looks, despite its lack of efficiency.

[NathanKell]

Am I wrong to think that 1.25m engine is deeply inspired by the Gamma cluster on Black Arrow?

[passinglurker]

A sane goopod? hooray!

Though if you want to make probes more appealing early game some sort of probe sized decoupling solution would be nice I hate looking at that empty space between my probe sized parts and the walls of the 1.25 decoupler something like a 1.25 to .625 adapter that doubles as a decoupler or a hollow 1.25 to .625 adapter that rockets can fire through would fit the bill without straight up offering a .625 decoupler and 1.25 to .625 adapter early

Also have you considered making a throttleable hybrid version of the probe srb?

[MrWizerd]

Here are some pictures of the Lack Attack Craft.... Hopefully this will fly, I have not tested it yet.... Fingers crossed cause I think it looks AWSOME ... I cheated though and used procedural wings.

[Lack]

@blackheart612,

Thanks! Worked out really nicely I think.

@MrWizerd,

Heh, the rail system certainly has some 'issues'. I got put in the luggage space between seats as a kid once, because they'd crammed 3 trains onto one (two had been cancelled) and it was the only room available.

And at latest post, wow, that does look really nice. If it flies I'd like to see a screenshot or two of it.

@The Destroyer,

Timed it, takes 6 minutes on the dot from going onto the screen with the KSC to it setting off. Although checking it in Unity, I think I forgot to label it as looping. Whoops. I've re-exported it now, so I'll upload it later.

@Gallidas,

Thanks! Inefficient was perhaps the wrong word, it's got a lower ISP certainly, but it's a 'more efficient' choice compared to the LT-Vs in certain circumstances due to the lower weight.

@NathanKell,

Nope, not wrong at all. The .625 SRB's based off the waxwing as well. Actually, very specifically built this with you in mind, I'm sure I remember you talking about the Black Arrow (or lack of one) once.

I'll have to make a Gamma-2 version as well; but I might have that disabled by default, since it's perhaps not necessary in the stock game, but would have a place in RSS/RO.

@passinglurker,

Might be worth moving the small decoupler earlier in the tech-tree. I'm not doing a rebalance or anything, but it seems a fairly in-offensive tweak.

I'd quite like to have some engines generally throttleable between a certain range, but don't think it can be done with the stock engine module. Firespitter, perhaps.

[Damaske]

Just wondering but why are all the TRUCK parts EXCEPT the wheels unlocked in one node, and the rest Waaaaaaaaay in the back? I ended up busting out my coding fingers and redid it on the fly and thanks to the latest MM (or another mod) I was able to reload the "database" and make the change without closing out KSP. I was not sure what that would do, BUUUUT know I do heh!

I LOVE THAT SHIP, pity it was made with procedural wings, maybe someone can redo them in a more non-procedural way? Anywho off to bed i go night all.

EDIT: yea stupid me left out a VITAL part of my post. *sighs*

Edited August 8, 2014 by Damaske

[Lack]

Just wondering but why are all the parts EXCEPT the wheels unlocked in one node, and the rest Waaaaaaaaay in the back? I ended up busting out my coding fingers and redid it on the fly and thanks to the latest MM (or another mod) I was able to reload the "database" and make the change without closing out KSP. I was not sure what that would do, BUUUUT know I do heh!

I LOVE THAT SHIP, pity it was made with procedural wings, maybe someone can redo them in a more non-procedural way? Anywho off to bed i go night all.

That the truck parts? I haven't done their tech-tree integration yet is all.

Also, I've found the alt-f12 menu really finicikity recently, with modding you often need to reload the database about once every 12 seconds, but even when I've moved the whole menu out of the way of the rest of the KSC (so there's no chance of clicking 'through' the menu), it still likes to take me to the VAB or SPH about half the time.

[TK421d]

Also, I've found the alt-f12 menu really finicikity recently

the most recent MM (2.2.1) added a window at the space center with the reload button on it, i havnt been using it but i suppose if the debug menu is finicky this one is too.

[mike9606]

the most recent MM (2.2.1) added a window at the space center with the reload button on it, i havnt been using it but i suppose if the debug menu is finicky this one is too.

That window can be moved actually.

[passinglurker]

@passinglurker,

Might be worth moving the small decoupler earlier in the tech-tree. I'm not doing a rebalance or anything, but it seems a fairly in-offensive tweak.

I'd quite like to have some engines generally throttleable between a certain range, but don't think it can be done with the stock engine module. Firespitter, perhaps.

It might be worth it, but at the same time it seems like the easy way out when something more interesting and original could be done. Such as adding a second bottom node further away from the part to the .625 engines that adds a conical .625 to 1.25 fairing when attached to(I've seen HGR do similar things with its 1.875 meter engines to help them look good being used with 2.5 meter parts) basically I'm just looking for something to at least cover the empty space that makes my probe parts look like they're floating.

Also the stock .625 decoupler and a few struts is a lighter, cheaper, and better solution than the 1.25 decoupler for anyone who doesn't care if their rocket doesn't look totally flush so its not totally inoffensive. Or the other easy way out is simply make a cheap and heavy mini-rockomax decoupler.

EDIT: I got it add a .625 attach node, skeletal fairing, and decoupler to the early game nose cone part. gives nose cones and early probes more love and they both need it

Edited August 8, 2014 by passinglurker

[wasmic]

I'd quite like to have some engines generally throttleable between a certain range, but don't think it can be done with the stock engine module. Firespitter, perhaps.

It's possible in stock! You can set both a maxThrust and minThrust parameter in the cfg file. It might be possible to disallow shutdown but still allow throttling, not sure though.

[passinglurker]

Disallowing shut down but still allowing throttle would make it almost as much of a pain to use in space as straight SRB's the only situation throttle is useful without necessarily needing the ability to shut down is when you are in the atmosphere usually when you are trying to avoid exceeding terminal velocity during liftoff.

[NathanKell]

Well I am very specifically grateful! Thanks!

[Gaalidas]

I LOVE THAT SHIP, pity it was made with procedural wings, maybe someone can redo them in a more non-procedural way? Anywho off to bed i go night all.

What's your beef with procedural stuff? Granted, I think soem of these procedural mods have gone in some weird directions, but wings and fairings are pretty simple.

... okay, so the fairings aren't simple by any means... but... okay, I give up.

Edited August 8, 2014 by Gaalidas

[Damaske]

What's your beef with procedural stuff? Granted, I think soem of these procedural mods have gone in some weird directions, but wings and fairings are pretty simple.

... okay, so the fairings aren't simple by any means... but... okay, I give up.

I have no beef with them, I use them also I just get tired of having to resort to P-Wing instead of use a large wing in the first place. I've been forced over into using P-wing due to the fact there are very few large wings that are in the game and with my poor texturing skills I am a little hesitant about making my own wings as I do have a few wing designs that I would LOVE to have in the game. ok, well a lot of wing designs in mind. heh

Again I have no beef with procedural wings, they fill in a need that is currently missing in the game. I'd just like to have that missing spot filled in with a non adjustable wings.

[MrWizerd]

Well at current I can not get it to lift off the ground... I don't know what it is that I keep doing to make it not work.... I have the CoM ahead of CoL and the gear are sat behind the CoM just slightly... I have a ton of wing space and 4 engines.... I cant figure it out....

I always have problems designing planes that fly properly though so...

[Neutrinovore]

Here are some pictures of the Lack Attack Craft.... Hopefully this will fly, I have not tested it yet.... Fingers crossed cause I think it looks AWSOME ... I cheated though and used procedural wings.

http://i.imgur.com/1TMGnMX.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/Q4viBuP.jpg

Heh heh, that looks quite cool, but I just have a hunch that it will want to swap ends on you as soon as you apply any serious pitch input. But rotsa ruck!

[Neutrinovore]

Well at current I can not get it to lift off the ground... I don't know what it is that I keep doing to make it not work.... I have the CoM ahead of CoL and the gear are sat behind the CoM just slightly... I have a ton of wing space and 4 engines.... I cant figure it out....

I always have problems designing planes that fly properly though so...

Oops, didn't see this post before I made my previous comment.

I'm guessing, Wiz, that your problem may be that your ailerons or flaperons or whatever you want to call them are too close to your CoL, and/or your CoM, giving them very little pitch authority. Maybe try adding some canards to the front? The farther away your control surfaces are from the CoM, the more effective they'll be.

Again, good luck.

[SpaceCommanderNemo]

Just a little thing that's always bothered me... The MK VIb Cockpit has room for two kerbals, but uses the MK VI IVA for one, and a seat behind the two main chairs for the other. Was the MK VIb meant to hold 3 kerbals?

Also, it seems like the last few TweakScale updates have borked compatibility with LLL, should I be doing some .dll file arranging?

[DaDodsworth]

I was playing around today and made a hexagon tank for a refuel station, I quiet like it think it could be a nice small addition to the pack. I'd make one myself but not experienced in texturing and don't have a computer for the next week so it'll have to wait.

Here's a pic anyway http://imgur.com/41jvi0F

[MrWizerd]

Just a little thing that's always bothered me... The MK VIb Cockpit has room for two kerbals, but uses the MK VI IVA for one, and a seat behind the two main chairs for the other. Was the MK VIb meant to hold 3 kerbals?

Also, it seems like the last few TweakScale updates have borked compatibility with LLL, should I be doing some .dll file arranging?

Lack will have to respond in regards to the IVA situation, as I don't know much about that. However, the tweakscale issue I can help with to some degree. First I will make the assumption that you have the latest version, next I will ask what problem your having. I use tweakscale rather extensively and while I have not seen to much of an issue asside from the issues from kspapi compatibility issues and issues when used with modular fuels, all of which have been fixed as of the resent release of modular fuel tanks and kspapi by Taniwha. If you can be specific, I may be able to assist you, but as of right now I have no issues with tweakscale and LLL.

[SpaceCommanderNemo]

I don't use modular fuel tanks, should I be? Like how you need a firespitter.dll everywhere for compatibility issues? I was able to use tweakscale with the LLL parts as of.... maybe patch 1.33 at the latest. My LLL install hasn't changed since the last real update. I can tweak KW parts and others just fine, the problem seems to be with the LLL parts specifically. Is there a .dll file overlap somewhere I should be looking for?

Edit: I replaced the tweakscale configs with the config lack posted earlier in the thread and everything seems to be working fine. the tweakscale-bundled configs for both LLL and SXT are blank.

Edited August 10, 2014 by SpaceCommanderNemo

[MrWizerd]

yeah you need the tweakscale cfg from this thread not from tweakscale, he has depreciated those so they wont mess with ours. You should only need one copy of firespitter in the firespitter folder. Modular fuel tanks just lets you change what is in each of your tanks... I use it to get rid of extra tanks I don't need.

[SpaceCommanderNemo]

Perhaps I should check out modular fuel tanks, then. That sounds like something I could make use of. Thanks for the help.

Had to test everything was working, so I made this: http://imgur.com/a/UVBlX

I'm patiently awaiting more LLL/Interstellar parts.