LLL - Lack Luster Labs - Development Thread

[Lack]

Hmmmmmm........I seem to be having problems installing the mod?

Game loads everything but when it comes to the "Loading" at the bottom which then would take me to the general view of the Kerbin base it crashes...

*snip*

I only briefly flicked over the logs, but it looks to be that the game reached the memory limit (i.e. too many parts). It's a known problem and with the .pngs even turning down texture size in the options doesn't have that much effect. The next release will be using primarily compress .tgas which should help with that. In the mean time, delete some of the parts to bring the memory usage down.

[Amoun]

I only briefly flicked over the logs, but it looks to be that the game reached the memory limit (i.e. too many parts). It's a known problem and with the .pngs even turning down texture size in the options doesn't have that much effect. The next release will be using primarily compress .tgas which should help with that. In the mean time, delete some of the parts to bring the memory usage down.

Hm. I should. I think I am just hoarding parts, but yours are literally and exactly what I am looking for.

I will get rid of a few mods but I do not think it is that heavy. Hmm. I will definitely give that a shot and see if it works. Thanks a lot for the quick reply.

Gonna see what the max number of parts one can have.

[Captain Sierra]

Is it bad that I JUST NOW noticed the sample model file was .skp? Lack, is that what you actually use or do you do it on blender, 3dsmax or something else and just imported the model to SU for that one download? If you actually use SU, yay. That makes 2 awesome mod packs I know of that use it. Though, I kinda suck at texturing so here is the real question. Sketchup modder to sketchup modder, how do you UV unwrap and texture your parts?

[Lack]

Hm. I should. I think I am just hoarding parts, but yours are literally and exactly what I am looking for.

I will get rid of a few mods but I do not think it is that heavy. Hmm. I will definitely give that a shot and see if it works. Thanks a lot for the quick reply.

Gonna see what the max number of parts one can have.

Also worth bearing in mind that the .png sizes are deceptive, a part may only look like it takes up a few hundred k, but will take up a Mb or two on loading (due to the way the game handles the textures). LLL is quite small on the disk but happily takes up few hundred Mb of memory on load. That's another thing I'm trying to get past with parts sharing textures.

Is it bad that I JUST NOW noticed the sample model file was .skp? Lack, is that what you actually use or do you do it on blender, 3dsmax or something else and just imported the model to SU for that one download? If you actually use SU, yay. That makes 2 awesome mod packs I know of that use it. Though, I kinda suck at texturing so here is the real question. Sketchup modder to sketchup modder, how do you UV unwrap and texture your parts?

I model most of the part in Sketchup, it's a nice and easy bit of software (Bac9's written some good pieces on that). Once that's done I export the part into Blender, tinker with the model and UV wrap it. Then put it all into Unity.

Sample workflow:

Once you've made your model in Sketchup you'll need to export it as a .dae

File->Export->3D Model->

You'll also want to change the options. This is what I use:

The important part seems to be un-checking triangulate all faces, I find having Export edges checked helps too. It'll just save you bother later on.

After that you'll want to open up Blender, I'm running 2.66a.

File->Import->Collada (default) (.dae)

select your .dae and import it in.

Select a part, then 'a' to select the rest.

Ctrl+J to merge the mesh in case it's spilt up.

Press 'Tab' to go into edit mode -> 'a' to select everything -> 'w' -> 'Remove Doubles'

That'll get rid of duplicate vertices often appear with the export/import.

'Alt+J' to neaten up the faces some (it'll probably also require some manual work to clean it up as well).

Then after that I UV wrap it, texture in it and put it all through Unity

[Amoun]

Also worth bearing in mind that the .png sizes are deceptive, a part may only look like it takes up a few hundred k, but will take up a Mb or two on loading (due to the way the game handles the textures). LLL is quite small on the disk but happily takes up few hundred Mb of memory on load. That's another thing I'm trying to get past with parts sharing textures.

If it's a memory issue then I am at a bit of a loss as I have a good 16 gigs of ram. I thought the game was limited to a specific # of parts and not the size of them. Maybe the game is limited in a sense that it can use a specific memory allocation?

I think I may have read it was 4 gigs? Gotta double check.

I did a clean install not too long ago (before LLL) and so far, parts that I have are kethane, B9 and...bah whats the name.....the pack that has those orange tanks closed in in a cage (best way I can describe it)

I am planning to build a ship using your parts and the orange tanks thingy. I suppose I do not need Kethane as I was just messing around with it but never really got into it.

Thanks again for the quick reply

[Lack]

If it's a memory issue then I am at a bit of a loss as I have a good 16 gigs of ram. I thought the game was limited to a specific # of parts and not the size of them. Maybe the game is limited in a sense that it can use a specific memory allocation?

I think I may have read it was 4 gigs? Gotta double check.

I did a clean install not too long ago (before LLL) and so far, parts that I have are kethane, B9 and...bah whats the name.....the pack that has those orange tanks closed in in a cage (best way I can describe it)

I am planning to build a ship using your parts and the orange tanks thingy. I suppose I do not need Kethane as I was just messing around with it but never really got into it.

Thanks again for the quick reply

Yeah, the game is limited to a certain amount of RAM (32bit executionable), so it doesn't really matter how much your system has over that limit.

And some pictures of a brief mission to the Mun so as it isn't all just dry talking about memory limits.

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Turned out to be trickier than I thought it would (and a lot more fun). I nerfed the nuclear engines considerably and forgot to put some batteries on, due to the CoM shift once I dumped the drop tanks I had the CMGs running and using up a lot of power. So it was thrust, recharge, thrust with the nuclear before switching over the much more controllable radial liquid fuel engines for the landing (I'm really fond of that VTOL, it's a joy to fly in VTOL mode).

[Neutrinovore]

So, okay... am I missing something? You keep showing images using new parts that aren't in the 0.09.9 release, nor in any of the supplemental packs either. Are these parts out yet? If so, I don't seem to be able to find where to download them. I REALLY REALLY REALLY WOULD VERY MUCH LIKE TO HAVE SOME NEW PARTS PLEEEEEEEASE?!?

[Captain Sierra]

Yeah, I figured sketchup wouldn't be able to unwrap the stuff. I already have models done that I need to get textured (just plain suck at it myself). I can get it into unity just fine. It's cool to know that this piece of awesomeness is also made in SU. Also, when do we get these new parts!? Stop teasing us!!!!!! Please!!!!!

[rillz]

no the new parts are not out yet neutrinovore, lack seems to be in a teasing mood lately . Anyways, what did you nerf your 2x1 nerva to and what are the stats for the vtol, if you don't mind me asking?

[KoopaTroopas]

I haven't been able to decipher if this is .21 compatible yet, so.... is it?

[shadowsutekh]

Yes, everything but the pods are .21 compatible. The pods in the most current releases use the .20 and previous versions' (A)SAS system. They'll still work, but not nearly as well.

[Gaius]

To be perfectly accurate, yes, everything in the mod is compatible with 0.21, including the pods. Not updated for 0.21, no, but compatible, yes.

[Lack]

no the new parts are not out yet neutrinovore, lack seems to be in a teasing mood lately . Anyways, what did you nerf your 2x1 nerva to and what are the stats for the vtol, if you don't mind me asking?

As it currently stands,

NERVA:

Max Thrust: 220kN

ISP Sea level: 260

ISP Vac: 800

Gimbal range= 2

Generator = 60/min

Mass = 8

Large Radial Engines:

Max Thrust: 190 kN

ISP Sea level: 300

ISP Vac: 320

Gimbal range = 4

Mass = 1.5

So they're based off (multiplications of) stock values with weight adjustments for things such as gimbal range.

As much as I'd like to release it now, you have no idea quite how broken much of the rest of it all is. There's a lot of cleaning up, more breaking and then more fixing to go.

[Neutrinovore]

Sigh... yes, I know, patience... not a very strong virtue in me, I must admit. ;P

I'm sure you're working on this excellent pack as much as time & life allows, I just wanted to express my eagerness at having some new parts to play with.

Speaking of which, here's a few suggestions, and a problem or 2. Problems first:

I have 0.09.9 plus the 'interim release' and the 'trackhousing' pack too. The problem is with the track housings - me no got! I've fiddled with the .cfg file as much as I could, thinking that might be it, but they don't show up in game no matter what. I tried re-downloading too, still nothing. So, there's that. Lol, I honestly didn't know what a 'track housing' was supposed to be until I saw your WIP pics of the yellow construction equipment type cabs! Then I realized that I was already supposed to have those parts. Oh, 2 other things, the docking lights thumbnail is blank in the editor. It shows up just fine if I put it on a ship, it's just the editor thumbnail. Also, the 2.5 meter to single 2x2 adapter - the "2.5 meter" circle is quite a bit bigger than all my other parts of that size, making it look horrible if I try to use it. And I can't rescale it in the .cfg because that would make the 2x2 too small. Just sayin', FYI.

Now some suggestions/requests, in no particular order:

- Different lengths of structural parts such as the 2x1 hull, the 1x1 walkways, etc. And in definite increments of the full sized parts, by the way, makes it easier, such as 1/2 length, 1/3, 1/4. Doesn't matter exactly, I just sometimes find myself needing a shorter 2x1 block or 1x1 'basic walkway', that's all.

- More adapters and in different lengths, i.e. a 1x1 to 2x1 centered adapter, but the length of a hull or walkway section. Same for the off-center part. Also, how about a 1x1 to DOUBLE 2x2? Centered and off-center, natch. Or a 2x2 to double 2x2, both ways. Meaning rectangle to square, and also rectangle to long skinny double width rectangle, get it? Again, centered and non, as appropriate. These would simply make for more elegant looking, more 'streamlined' designs. They would also complement the 2.5 meter to double 2x2 adapter I saw in one of your pics, that's a part I'm REALLY needing to create some of the designs in my head!

Anyway, I submit these ideas knowing that I risk delaying release even longer, but I figured I'd put in my 2 cents' worth.

Keep up the great work, Lack, and I shall wait (not so) patiently for more of your excellent parts to arrive someday!

Neutrinovore out.

[Seeker89]

I was wondering if you could work with procedural fairing to make a fairing that would fit these parts.

Right now I'm using the 2x1 counter weight, I changed the size to be 4x2(cuz that's the size I need it for) removed the weight and added the fairing module. Problems I'm running into is that the fairing starts from the center cutting off the sides and going with whatever it feels like. Second problem(which you could help me with) is adding the nodes on the sides.

Other then that. I love this mod. I can make rovers that move, yay!

[Vrana]

Just wanted to say im a big fan of this mod.

So far i have been manually patching 0.21 SAS (and removing the old torque) into LLL parts which need it but im really looking forward to an offical update.

Your mod, imo, has the best station and base parts in combination with B9 structural panels. Thank you for creating it.

Not too shaby for spaceships either.

[Captain Sierra]

Lack, what might happpen if a fully animated 1x1 cargo bay and a 1x1 tail piece find their way into your forum inbox? I was thinking on making you a couple of parts because:

1) we both work using the same softwares; SU to Blender to Unity

2) I really like this pack and think these are some things that the plane builders here would like.

[dizzysaurus]

Lack, what might happpen if a fully animated 1x1 cargo bay and a 1x1 tail piece find their way into your forum inbox? I was thinking on making you a couple of parts because:

1) we both work using the same softwares; SU to Blender to Unity

2) I really like this pack and think these are some things that the plane builders here would like.

If you do work on some parts, could you maybe pretty please send me the sketchup and blender files? I'd love to learn modelling but learn best by examples and just messing around - I never pay proper attention to videos etc :/

[skygunner58203]

I agree. I use sketchup myself and want to learn ksp modeling

[Lack]

Lack, what might happpen if a fully animated 1x1 cargo bay and a 1x1 tail piece find their way into your forum inbox? I was thinking on making you a couple of parts because:

1) we both work using the same softwares; SU to Blender to Unity

2) I really like this pack and think these are some things that the plane builders here would like.

Then I'd probably end up adding them with you marked as the creator, providing you're okay with that and there's no major problems with the parts.

Actually, since I have a 2x1 cargo bay already, I can send you a copy of the .blender and texture files to play with. That way, if you match up the UV map for the 1x1 cargo with the existing part then it saves the memory of having an extra texture and you a bit of work.

[Captain Sierra]

I can send all yall my stuff. You could also visit me Dev thread under Sierra's Spare Parts (which needs updating).

And Lack, you can do that but dunno anything about texturing (since I don't have programs to make them (hate GIMP) and can't draw on a computer, never bothered to learn). Go ahead, I'll see if I can make that work. It would definitely help if I could see it better to match a 1x1 to it so they looked the same. Since your pack's textures are relatively simple and clean, I may try my hand at texturing it myself.

If you wanna send it via email: [email protected]

And yes, I'd be more than okay with you using them since they would be designed for your pack.

[Deathsoul097]

Kudos Lack, You have really outdone yourself with the next update, And I have to say I can't wait.

Has anyone heard of command and conquer? If you have I am trying to recreate the VX-035 GDI air transport, and I had an Idea. What if the LLL NERVA was retextured and coded, or a 2x1 Jet engine was made that was radially surface mountable? Just a thought for 0.11.?? .

[Captain Sierra]

Kudos Lack, You have really outdone yourself with the next update, And I have to say I can't wait.

Has anyone heard of command and conquer? If you have I am trying to recreate the VX-035 GDI air transport, and I had an Idea. What if the LLL NERVA was retextured and coded, or a 2x1 Jet engine was made that was radially surface mountable? Just a thought for 0.11.?? .

Ox transport eh? I sense a challenge. Wait, yo need a payload. Can anyone whip up a Predator tank?

[Deathsoul097]

Seems like a good idea to me, cosidered actually making it at one point. If I did I would probably use a reworked GAU-19 or a Bass Cannon from pirated weaponry.

Also, Lack, I would just liketo say you and Bac9 have inspired me to begin modding. I am currently working on C&C-esque plane fuselages, and will also be creating some slightly OP engines and launch stages. If anyone wants them, send a message to me. (But nothing is finished yet)

[Neutrinovore]

Hey, Lack, just checking in. Any updates? New screenshots maybe? I'm sure there's nothing ready for release, but if I had some new pictures to drool over I'd have my fix for a while, lol.