nismobg Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 Bug : on Minmus winch + magnet , magnetize = universe big bang everywhere. The force is strong with this magnet. Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starwaster Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 The fuel pipes should work for that.But then I'm left with fuel pipes stuck to my pieces? See that's why I don't want to use docking ports, so I don't have extra PART{}'s stuck to my station. Though with the docking ports then there's all those modules too.Or is there some way I could remove the pipes afterwards that leaves my parts stuck together? How does it work exactly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Zoom Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 (edited) Question: were the standard, fixed attachment points (Radial Connector Ports) changed at all from the last version? I have a couple of rovers with winches, etc, but they're fairly easily deleted and replaced; but if a craft has nothing but one or more of the regular "sockets", will it be affected (fail to load, explode, etc)? Edited October 4, 2013 by Commander Zoom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NNYGamer Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 I've got some checking to do but so far only one problem. Exploding kerbals. There might be some interference from another mod so I'll put it on my stock game and test tomorrow. Every time I hit the ground a little hard my guy exploded. The last one he had just picked up the large container and was moving it and I may have run into the rover wheel. I was only practicing building on Kerbin so nothing was messed up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOCOUR Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 I tried to use those pipes, Looks awsome bytheway, but after i switch to space center or another wessel, and then switch back to place where i tested them, they are all gone even the storage containers that Jeb put on ground are gone. Only Jeb and his truck stayed there, and parts directly atached to the truck stayed there everithing else disappeared. Also Jeb tends to fall to the ground and play dead near those pipes and pylons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisF0001 Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 With some further thinking and experimenting, the bottom line is:Everything that relied on a winch being a winch, i.e. retractable and having an actuator on the end, is impractical to upgrade and is better off rebuilt. That includes hanging bases, cranes, towing arrangements of whatever kind, airships with anchors, etc. I don't think making a winch attachable from EVA will work well, and more importantly, it won't be attachable exactly where you want it to be anyway.Anything that relied on a winch for transfer of resources and merging modules into a single vessel is better off done with pipes instead.Hmm, yes. I've tried some experiments with modifying the save files, clinging to the theory that surely, logically, it must be possible to do it like that, before discovering for myself just how difficult it is to remove even one part from a ship using only a text editor. With any more than perhaps a couple of dozen parts involved it's evidently just not happening. However, I haven't yet given up on the possibility of converting old winches with no connectors into new winches by copying the module blocks across. With the vertical winch, I have some hope of that working. It doesn't with the horizontal winch, but that seems broken for me anyway even on newly built ships, and it fights back all my attempts to fix it.So, my next experiment will be to unplug and retract all the winches, then use the Lazor EVA weld/decouple feature to cut off all the connectors, then attempt the upgrade.So a somewhat simplified upgrade cycle, tested in vitro, is like this:Backup everything. At the very least, back up your entire GameData and saves directories. This should be obvious, but for some people it isn't.Install container parts from 0.4 separately, removing all part modules from their config files. Start the game. Using your existing base setup, you can now build containers and place one wherever pipes will be needed. Just put it on wheels and drive it off the launchpad if you use them, deliver one by rocket if you don't. Disconnect and reel in all winches everywhere, dispose of craft that rely on winches being winches as appropriate. Once that is done, exit.Remove all part modules from 0.3 parts, adding a copy KasModuleGrab from a grabbable part like electromagnet instead where one isn't present. Now they don't work as winches and connectors, but you can detach them from the craft. Load the game and get rid of every winch, connector and connector port you have. The bases are inoperative at this point, but you have empty containers in place already.Delete 0.3 (including the container parts you have edited) and install 0.4, (which will include the container parts in their original form) start the game. If you left any connectors lying around as debris, they will now vanish, as will anything that you forgot to remove a connector from. Switch to every craft that contains a container and open it for a good measure to check if they're okay. That will make containers operable, they are now empty. Build a vessel that is just a container full of pipe endpoints and junctions, launch it and exit the game. Now you can edit the save file to fill containers with as many pipe endpoints as you need to restore everything, and you can look at the container you just launched in the savefile to see how to edit your containers that are at your remote bases to match. Look for "CONTENT" section for the contents of the container, the format is trivial. You can edit in more pipe endpoints than the container would otherwise be able to hold, by the way.Load again and reconnect the bases with pipes taken from your containers, you're done. Now you can build a new crane or whatever it is that would need explicit winches to work.Quite a hassle, but still easier than rebuilding bases from scratch.Thanks again. I haven't yet tried messing with the containers, but I suspect that may be the missing step - The big flaw in my plan (or at least the one I'm currently aware of) being that the launchpad is currently attached to the rest of my base by means of a horizontal stack winch that won't survive the conversion... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzink Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 I can't figure this out. Using the radial connector port, I want to bring one up to another stranded craft, attach it to the stranded craft, and then attach the winch connector to it and haul it in. Seems like what KAS is made for, practically.I've tested my design on the ground using simple parts--ejecting a Stay Putnik from the top of a craft, going to EVA, attaching the radial connector port to the satellite bit and hauling it in. No problem.Except when I'm in orbit, none of this works. I can detach the radial connector port and Mac happily carries it around on his back, but I can't reattach it anywhere. What works perfectly on Kerbin, using the H key or selecting the button and then clicking a destination, doesn't work at all in orbit. It simply won't let me reattach. Here's some screenshots:What's going wrong here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KospY Posted October 4, 2013 Author Share Posted October 4, 2013 New version released (0.4.1)#####Bug Fixes - Container mass are now correctly calculated- Hopefully fixed under ground part spawning bug after warping/loading- Universe will no more vanish when the coupled vessel was the active vessel (can happen with winches)- Universe will no more vanish sometimes after loading- Ground attached object now re-attach correctly to the ground after save/load- Added a warning message in log if heightFromTerrain get negative (just in case, related to under ground part spawning) - Fixed winch connector which disconnects after a save/load- Removed pipe and strut tube renderer from attach pointer- Attaching a pipe or strut linked now unlink automatically- Struts now use the correct texture- Adjusted the coupling behaviourHopefully all major issues are fixed. Under ground part spawning was prertty tricky to find. It was related to the stock function "GetHeightFromTerrain" that seemed to collide with the tube renderer of the pipe when linking :0For an unknow reason it mess up all the vessel height. Removed the collider of tubes did the job for fixing that issue However, I added debug logging when height of the current vessel get negative, so if the problem happen again, please check your log, (alt+F2 in game) and report it here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnipu Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 New version released (0.4.1)#####Bug Fixes - Container mass are now correctly calculated- Hopefully fixed under ground part spawning bug after warping/loading- Universe will no more vanish when the coupled vessel was the active vessel (can happen with winches)- Universe will no more vanish sometimes after loading- Ground attached object now re-attach correctly to the ground after save/load- Added a warning message in log if heightFromTerrain get negative (just in case, related to under ground part spawning) - Fixed winch connector which disconnects after a save/load- Removed pipe and strut tube renderer from attach pointer- Attaching a pipe or strut linked now unlink automatically- Struts now use the correct texture- Adjusted the coupling behaviourHopefully all major issues are fixed. Under ground part spawning was prertty tricky to find. It was related to the stock function "GetHeightFromTerrain" that seemed to collide with the tube renderer of the pipe when linking :0For an unknow reason it mess up all the vessel height. Removed the collider of tubes did the job for fixing that issue However, I added debug logging when height of the current vessel get negative, so if the problem happen again, please check your log, (alt+F2 in game) and report it here.Fantastic, man. So this also negates explosion upon loading? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mihara Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 Hmm, yes. I've tried some experiments with modifying the save files, clinging to the theory that surely, logically, it must be possible to do it like that, before discovering for myself just how difficult it is to remove even one part from a ship using only a text editor. With any more than perhaps a couple of dozen parts involved it's evidently just not happening. It is possible, but due to all the part cross-referencing, it's just annoyingly difficult to do manually without screwing everything up. Using the KAS grab module to just tear them off in EVA -- or Lazors, for that matter -- and letting KSP itself take care of all the linkage is much preferable. There's also that method with destruction by overheating mentioned higher up in the thread in response to my comments, which also works, but is harder to control.However, I haven't yet given up on the possibility of converting old winches with no connectors into new winches by copying the module blocks across.Please write up the procedure if you succeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KospY Posted October 4, 2013 Author Share Posted October 4, 2013 (edited) Bug : on Minmus winch + magnet , magnetize = universe big bang everywhere. The force is strong with this magnet. LolI must say that I didn't test magnet on Minmus as I only have a Mun base for now. Did it happen everytime ? and only on that planet ?It is possible, but due to all the part cross-referencing, it's just annoyingly difficult to do manually without screwing everything up. Using the KAS grab module to just tear them off in EVA -- or Lazors, for that matter -- and letting KSP itself take care of all the linkage is much preferable. There's also that method with destruction by overheating mentioned higher up in the thread in response to my comments, which also works, but is harder to control.Please write up the procedure if you succeed.Also interested, I can add it to the main page if there is a working solution.Feel free to display the video where ever you want if you think it show the feature better. When you update the mod I will redo the video.I will maybe wait that you redo the video when KAS 0.4 will be confirmed stable. A video with bugs like this are not really reassuring for users I hope that with the latest bugfixes the situation will change. As I released 0.4.1 today, I guess I just need to wait the feedback now. (for me the game is running fine so far) Edited October 4, 2013 by KospY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rottielover Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 trying the 4.1 update now. So far very promising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CERVERUS Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 Who can tell me wich plugin is this,you can transfer fuel like this way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
futrtrubl Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 Who can tell me wich plugin is this,you can transfer fuel like this way?That would be this plugin. Specifically the pylons and pipes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exposure Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 Alt + right click if you're wondering exactly how to transfer fuels after connecting them with KAS.Otherwise what the guy above me said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasmic Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 Yes, I think he was asking how to transfer the fuel with the popup boxes. It's in the stock game, just alt-rightclick on both tanks, like Exposure said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
futrtrubl Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 (edited) Alt + right click if you're wondering exactly how to transfer fuels after connecting them with KAS.Otherwise what the guy above me said.Ahhh, that part yeah ;']In other news behold the KAS based "Rat King" MROC ( Maintenance, Repair and Overhaul Craft). I completely ignored the look of the craft and focused on function and by happy coincidence it actually resembled something ;']The "crown" is a FesTek parts expansion IACBM (aka a docking port) for docking with my station. Edited October 4, 2013 by futrtrubl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CERVERUS Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 Thanks a lot my friends,both of you(wasmic,Exposure),about your respond! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forsaken1111 Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 Away from my home computer so I can test right now, but is there any comprehensive documentation for this mod anywhere?For example, are the pipes structural or only allow fuel transfer? Do pipes allow other resources to transfer as well? If I join 2 craft with a pipe does that have the same effect as docking them? Are pipes stronger/weaker than struts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flexix11 Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 yes the pipes dock it together Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forsaken1111 Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 yes the pipes dock it togetherExcellent, thank you. I'm planning out a small refueling rig for my reusable lifter and slapping pipes on the side makes it a lot easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzink Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 (edited) I can't figure this out. Using the radial connector port, I want to bring one up to another stranded craft, attach it to the stranded craft, and then attach the winch connector to it and haul it in. Seems like what KAS is made for, practically.I've tested my design on the ground using simple parts--ejecting a Stay Putnik from the top of a craft, going to EVA, attaching the radial connector port to the satellite bit and hauling it in. No problem.Except when I'm in orbit, none of this works. I can detach the radial connector port and Mac happily carries it around on his back, but I can't reattach it anywhere. What works perfectly on Kerbin, using the H key or selecting the button and then clicking a destination, doesn't work at all in orbit. It simply won't let me reattach. Here's some screenshots:What's going wrong here?Looks like my screenshots didn't work the first time. See them here:Any ideas? Edited October 4, 2013 by tzink Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiron Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 Excellent, thank you. I'm planning out a small refueling rig for my reusable lifter and slapping pipes on the side makes it a lot easier.The pipes are mostly rigid (assuming removing the collider didn't break that, but I doubt it did.) There's SOME flex but you expect that. They work in docked-mode ONLY.Struts only work between parts of a single craft, but use the same model (scaled down) for the pipes. There's a very satisfying metallic TINK when they engage too.Both work similarly to how docking struts do, only with ExternalToEVAOnly turned on (so only an EVA Kerbal can make the connections.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasmir Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 (edited) Hi KospY,sorry to say, but the pipes cause still nice explosions by making things spawn into the underground on loading.Facts: - _all_ Vessels in this scence are spawning into underground. Even the not connected ones. -> in this scene, 2 vessels are connected via pipe, 4 are independant. - the EVA there spawn at the right place (and get not bounced)Here is my safe:persistent.sfsmy Plugin-Dir:14.09.2013 14:29 <DIR> DeadlyReentry06.08.2013 18:45 <DIR> EditorExtensions06.09.2013 09:57 <DIR> FerramAerospaceResearch04.10.2013 14:53 <DIR> KAS22.08.2013 16:30 <DIR> Keramzit -> ProceduralFairings13.08.2013 17:21 <DIR> Kethane29.09.2013 22:26 <DIR> kOS30.09.2013 13:27 <DIR> KOSMOS05.08.2013 17:58 <DIR> KSPX12.09.2013 00:03 <DIR> MagicSmokeIndustries -> Infernal Robotics25.07.2013 10:24 <DIR> MechJeb205.09.2013 16:28 <DIR> ModsByTal -> Spherical Fuel Tanks21.08.2013 14:50 7.168 ModuleManager.dll06.09.2013 20:32 <DIR> NavyFish -> DockingPortAlignment19.09.2013 19:59 <DIR> PartCatalog22.08.2013 16:30 <DIR> RCSBuildAid13.08.2013 17:20 <DIR> SelectRoot03.07.2013 15:25 <DIR> Squad29.08.2013 23:15 <DIR> StretchyTanks09.07.2013 18:51 <DIR> SubassemblyManager29.07.2013 22:41 <DIR> TacFuelBalancer15.09.2013 15:14 <DIR> Telemachus29.07.2013 22:39 <DIR> TriggerTech -> KerbalAlarmClock04.10.2013 14:55 <DIR> WarpPluginThe scene in on Mun, try to load the EVA there. Edited October 4, 2013 by Jasmir added mod information Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiron Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 my Plugin-Dir:14.09.2013 14:29 <DIR> DeadlyReentry06.08.2013 18:45 <DIR> EditorExtensions06.09.2013 09:57 <DIR> FerramAerospaceResearch04.10.2013 14:53 <DIR> KAS22.08.2013 16:30 <DIR> Keramzit13.08.2013 17:21 <DIR> Kethane29.09.2013 22:26 <DIR> kOS30.09.2013 13:27 <DIR> KOSMOS05.08.2013 17:58 <DIR> KSPX12.09.2013 00:03 <DIR> MagicSmokeIndustries25.07.2013 10:24 <DIR> MechJeb205.09.2013 16:28 <DIR> ModsByTal21.08.2013 14:50 7.168 ModuleManager.dll06.09.2013 20:32 <DIR> NavyFish19.09.2013 19:59 <DIR> PartCatalog22.08.2013 16:30 <DIR> RCSBuildAid13.08.2013 17:20 <DIR> SelectRoot03.07.2013 15:25 <DIR> Squad29.08.2013 23:15 <DIR> StretchyTanks09.07.2013 18:51 <DIR> SubassemblyManager29.07.2013 22:41 <DIR> TacFuelBalancer15.09.2013 15:14 <DIR> Telemachus29.07.2013 22:39 <DIR> TriggerTech04.10.2013 14:55 <DIR> WarpPluginThe scene in on Mun, try to load the EVA there.Unfortunately some of those things can encompass multiple mods. MagicSmokeIndustries for example, I have two from: Reflaginator and Infernal Robotics. We need to know which mods are being used in those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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