Attachment nodes

[Sleipnir]

Hey all,

Some of the attachment nodes, especially on fuel tanks, seem really weak. They tend to hold up well on smaller craft but once you go tall they wobble like crazy. IRL we have big fuel tanks that are structurally strong from the inside, in KSP on the other hand we have to reinforce it ourselves with many a struts (which = high part count which= lag sadly). Is there anyway to tweak the CFG to make them stronger? Is it something that will be tweaked in upcoming versions?

[SkyRender]

You can counteract it to some degree with struts and structural parts as it is (and by building properly symmetrically). But the wobble itself isn't about to go away any time soon. You stick 150 tonnes of rocket fuel under you balanced precariously on a series of engines, and yeah, it's gonna wobble like Jell-o.

[Zephram Kerman]

You can always use Infinite Joint Strength, but that's a bit cheaty. To me, the wobbly joints make sense, limiting the length of unreinforced structures.

[flightmaster]

More struts required

[Camelotking524]

If it wobbles you must strut it!

Strut it good.

[Vanamonde]

You will never live it down, unless you strut it.

[Sleipnir]

Struts do help, but since the game engine still needs many improvements it would help to make the attachment nodes a little stronger. A bit of wobble is fine, especially on monstrous rockets, but i sometimes get parts falling off even on smaller rockets. Usually ASAS from tanks

[iamaphazael]

It isn't a matter of strength. The Unity engine connects objects at single points only, so if you have things that are big enough and you apply enough force to them, things are going to wobble. There's nothing that Squad can do about it, except what they've already done: give us a strut part to reinforce things with. And, by the way, struts don't get physics calculated on them, so they don't contribute to lag.

[M5000]

And, by the way, struts don't get physics calculated on them, so they don't contribute to lag.

That is absolutely false. They get physics just like any other part. They have some mass, they have some drag (albeit small) and they most certainly can fall to the ground or be launched out into space just like any other debris. Stick some struts on to a stack separator, then some other part. Go out into orbit and detach that stack separator, the struts will fly away with some velocity. Yup, definitely no physics calculations here.

[Sleipnir]

I really hope that once the game gets the full release (beta or whatever you call it) that they either upgrade or replace the unity engine. This game is sooo much fun and has so much potential but the engine is just keeping it back. For me at least. Full 64 bit and multicore support is a must, as we all as better graphic card support. Idk if they are, but if they want to add more solar systems you can visit you will need a better game engine that can support that along with bigger ships and more travel variety. Any thoughts or opinions?

[chainedlupine]

I doubt Unity will ever get replaced. Using a different engine, plus some kind of custom physics engine designed to handle the sort of requirements KSP needs would be a major undertaking. Maybe for KSP2 once Squad has made their millions and can afford to hire a lot more people....

And I'm just going to echo what everybody else said. This isn't an issue with the parts stress limits per say, but the fact that attachments in Unity are done as single-point constraint joints, which is a limitation of the PhysX engine that Unity utilizes.

Basically what struts give us is the ability to place our own sets of two-point distance-limited joints. They are literally struts -- A duct-tape solution to get around how PhysX behaves.

[Sleipnir]

I doubt Unity will ever get replaced. Using a different engine, plus some kind of custom physics engine designed to handle the sort of requirements KSP needs would be a major undertaking. Maybe for KSP2 once Squad has made their millions and can afford to hire a lot more people....

And I'm just going to echo what everybody else said. This isn't an issue with the parts stress limits per say, but the fact that attachments in Unity are done as single-point constraint joints, which is a limitation of the PhysX engine that Unity utilizes.

Basically what struts give us is the ability to place our own sets of two-point distance-limited joints. They are literally struts -- A duct-tape solution to get around how PhysX behaves.

Kinda sucks about the engine part. Is there no other engine capable of this? Even modifying it to better support faster PCs would make a difference. defs would be better for sales too

[CalculusWarrior]

Just strut your stuff! As long as you don't add insane numbers of struts, they shouldn't slow the game down too much. In fact, I've found that adding struts prevents lag for me; stopping a rocket from wiggling around so much seems to speed up the game. Not sure if it's my imagination or what...

[chainedlupine]

Kinda sucks about the engine part. Is there no other engine capable of this? Even modifying it to better support faster PCs would make a difference. defs would be better for sales too

It's not a problem that most physics engines for video games are meant to resolve. Pretty much the only hack-y fix that exists has already been given to us -- creating our own cross-bracing joints via struts. Unfortuantely, as most of us have found out, more parts means more struts, and this greatly increases the complexity of the physics simulation and frame rates spiral out of control.

[simonh]

Kinda sucks about the engine part. Is there no other engine capable of this? Even modifying it to better support faster PCs would make a difference. defs would be better for sales too

Rewriting the game for a completely new technical base would likely take years just to get it to the point he game is at now. It's just not worth it, and in reality another set of game engines are likely. Ave their own limitations and disadvantages too. I'm sure Unity was chosen for its own benefits.

Simon Hibbs

[engraverwilliam]

the struts in KW rocketry hold 20,000 so a lot less are needed. If you place them exactly in between your stages and such you can even hide them well. Two between each vertical stage eliminates wobble.

[Tw1]

Got to say it: Strut it up!

(Sorry. I liek puns.)