Are you Religious?

[MrPwner]

Definitely not, I'm comfortable with not knowing everything, not having someone always looking over my shoulder to maybe protect me and seizing to exist when I die.

That doesn't mean I don't think some all-powerful extradimensional creator could've had something to do with it, simply because we just don't know (yet). But that belief is purely scientific/logical. Absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence.

But personally, I can't respect religious beliefs like bearded wizards in the sky. Certainly not when they come from a book that's highly contradicting and has made statements disproven by science.

I also don't think science and religion can work together, simply because one will always have a god/deity at the base of it that somehow must be involved.

@wolfedg also very curious about those sources, if it was (really) effectively disproven, it would've been big news.

Edited April 26, 2013 by MrPwner

[ramses]

Thanks for keeping this thread civil guys, let's not stray to far from the question which is simply "Are you Religious".

Fell free to post your beliefs or non-beliefs, but please don't attack anyone for theirs.

I myself am finding some things written here quite different to my own atheist views, but accept that for a thread like this to achieve it's goal, which is to find a percentage for each, I simply say or vote for what I believe and leave it at that.

Thanks again for contributing.

[Nibb31]

Personally, I make a distinction between belief and religion.

- Belief (or lack of) should really be a personal thing. Everyone should be free to have the spiritual life that they want, as long as it doesn't interfere with other peoples lives. It should never interfere with society, science, education, or government. Some people need a spiritual life, while others don't, and this should be respected.

- Religions, on the other hand, were all created by Man to control the masses. There have been thousands of religions through History, each one claiming the be The One. The fact that religion is mostly something that you are born into, where the God that you worship depends totally on where and when you were born, proves that there is no universal truth in the matter. It proves that religions were created by men to create a unity for their social groups and exclude others by dehumanizing them. They are political tools of control and power that were created and developed by kings and leaders, and live on on as some kind of outdated tradition.

If there was some kind of omnipotent deity that wanted us to believe in him, then it would be quite easy to arrange. All he would need to do is appear in the sky to all of us (not just some Chosen People), show everyone how powerful he is, and how he wants to be worshipped, and that would be the end of all the religious conflicts that have plagued Humanity. There would no longer be any doubt, and there would be one single universal religion.

However, if there is a God, then he created me as an Atheist. Which makes him a pretty twisted personality, doesn't it?

Personally, I'll go with the classical paradox that proves (to me) that there can be no such thing as an all-powerful benevolent God:

If God is all-powerful, then why does he allow evil and purposeless suffering:

a) He doesn't care that we suffer => In that case, we shouldn't care about him, he is not worthy of worship.

He wants us to suffer = Then he's a cruel bugger, and not benevolent, therefore not worthy of worship.

c) He can't stop evil/suffering => Then he's not omnipotent, therefore not worthy of worship.

Now, what does scare me, is Christians in the US who are becoming more of a political power, interfering with science, education, and government.

[vexx32]

Can I just drop in here to clarify something? I won't be coming back, because this always goes to hell no matter where you go. If you wish to respond, you'd be wise to just PM me.

Evolution. Let's clear this up right now. I have seen so many fools try to disprove it, but facts are facts. Evolution is a fact. It is an observed occurrence. The commonplace definition of a theory might be "a wild guess", but I can say right now that a scientific theory holds the very highest place possible for any scientific proposition. You don't get scientists claiming things are beyond doubt, because that's not science. That is religion. Science never claims anything is beyond doubt.

However, evolution is a hypothesis which is supported and corroborated by all observed evidence, and there is no competing explanation that has any credibility. I have seen a thousand and one people claiming they can disprove evolution. The problem? The people claiming to disprove evolution do not even understand even the most basic ideas evolution puts forth. They simply aren't interested. Evolution is a theory. So is gravity. Religious people don't go flying off into space. Gravity is a proven fact. The same is true for evolution. If you want to argue against it, save us all some trouble and Google it. Find the best-documented explanations out there and if you don't understand what they're talking about, feel free to continue using Google to clear up confusion. The amount of religious nuts I have seen trying to tell me evolution is wrong and science is a conspiracy is quite pathetic. If you really want me to, I can and will destroy each and every pathetic "disproving" of evolution you can find. PM 'em to me, and I'll tear them to shreds. People usually don't bother because half the time, the people throwing them at logical persons don't even read them.

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If you wish to respond to anything above that line up there, PM me. I've no wish to turn this into yet another pointless discussion where the loudest voice wins, as so often happens.

With respect to this thread... Why is a question of "Are you religious" tagged with Biology? Religion isn't biology, it's an opinion.

What am I? Well, neither, really. I can't stand religion. It's such a frustrating thing to discuss. All that happens is people toss their opinions around and then shove them down everyone else's throats when argued with. Faith can't be argued against, because it's not a logical proposition. It's the most illogical thing you can come up with, and as such any logical argument is silly. There's no point arguing logically on something illogical in the first place, it just gets nowhere. Anyone using "faith" in an argument doesn't understand what a proper argument is. You can't use faith in an argument, because it's meaningless.

That said, science is still unable to explain everything. It may well be that science never manages to come up with the answers for everything... but that is unlikely. But until it can, I'll fill in the holes with what makes logical sense to me. If I end up being wrong, so be it. I don't care, I can change my stance. If I'm proven wrong, I win anyway, since all I get is more tools to help understand the world. But I like to be able to fill in the holes with what makes sense to me. I try to use logic to extrapolate to a reasonably degree what might be true.

And as I always like to have a hobby, I'm always looking for a way to make some magic. Magic's always fascinated me, and the principle is sound -- energy in, energy or matter out. It's the in-between bit that needs work on. So that's one of my favourite hobbies, when I've naught to do.

[Fredonia]

Yes. I would classify myself as religious. Christian. Baptist.

That said, I'll not visit this thread anymore because someone will eventually come along and derail it and it will fall into arguments and get closed. It's the course of almost every thread like this everywhere. Sure, it starts civil... Then...chaos.

[SunJumper]

However, evolution is a hypothesis which is supported and corroborated by all observed evidence, and there is no competing explanation that has any credibility. I have seen a thousand and one people claiming they can disprove evolution. The problem? The people claiming to disprove evolution do not even understand even the most basic ideas evolution puts forth. They simply aren't interested. Evolution is a theory. So is gravity. Religious people don't go flying off into space. Gravity is a proven fact. The same is true for evolution. If you want to argue against it, save us all some trouble and Google it. Find the best-documented explanations out there and if you don't understand what they're talking about, feel free to continue using Google to clear up confusion. The amount of religious nuts I have seen trying to tell me evolution is wrong and science is a conspiracy is quite pathetic. If you really want me to, I can and will destroy each and every pathetic "disproving" of evolution you can find. PM 'em to me, and I'll tear them to shreds. People usually don't bother because half the time, the people throwing them at logical persons don't even read them.

Well, there was this one guy...

That was a joke, I'm an atheist. Although maybe misotheist is more apt...

[Person012345]

Religion kinda, to me, signifies belief without need for a proof. I could write essays on my religious views (which tend to be a bit off-the-beaten path). But if you want to reconcile religion and science, I say look at all those subatomic particles: They work in some way, and form the building blocks of everything in our universe. But why do they work the way they do? Ultimately, I think a higher power (God, Buddha, Jehova, What have you) is responsible for the design of how the universe works, and then has let the universe take its course. Deism in a way, I guess.

Thanks for an interesting post, OP. Especially on the internet, a hive of atheism, both militant and accepting

And what happens when we find out why they work as they do?

God of the gaps is a dangerous game.

[Person012345]

Anyone who thinks there is a contradiction between religion and science, clearly, understands neither.

It depends what you mean. There are clear contradictions between science and practically every established religion and the claims they make. Although there isn't inherently a contradiction between science and the vague notion of a deity (although within science a deity is unnecessary and completely unsupported).

[ramses]

With respect to this thread... Why is a question of "Are you religious" tagged with Biology? Religion isn't biology, it's an opinion.

Hey Vexx, the reason I tagged this thread Biology is I am an Atheist for want of a better word ( I really don't get if you don't believe in something then you are given a name. I don't believe in a planet populated by teddy bears so what does that make me? A Teddiest?) and therefore see this as asking a certain species (Humans) about their beliefs.

If I was to ask Dolphins on their beliefs on this forum I suppose it would fall under Biology. To be honest I wasn't sure what to tag it. Any suggestions?

[Person012345]

Despite what you may have been taught, evolution is still a theory. One with many holes that evolutionists like to ignore. Also that is why I put it in brackets as I expected some would not agree with it.

So is the germ theory of disease. That's "just a theory". I suppose you believe that demons cause disease do you?

[Person012345]

I could point you to several sources of research that effectively disprove evolution, but I'd wager like most others you would dismiss it without even considering looking at it.

How about you submit them to leading biologists and they can explain to you why they're absurd. Because you won't listen to any of us most likely. Or, if they can't explain them, you might win a nobel prize or something.

As to the OP you may be able to tell I am not religious.

[Warscribe]

I wouldn't mind religions if it weren't for the wars. Also, the increasing close-mindedness of religious people (which somewhere goes to ridiculous statements) makes (some) these people kind of intolerable for me.

[Rune]

This thread is gonna turn into a fight over evolution. I can tell.

I'm an atheist/anti-theist, btw.

Hey, I stopped myself from going into "full broadside" mode against creationism and their arguments about the theory of evolution (which can never be more than a theory, like anything else, unless it stops being scientific). But I doubt the rest of the people will.

I started an atheist, but nowadays I'm less... I guess you could say fundamentalist about it. Even verging on agnosticism, but not quite there yet. So if I turn out to be wrong (might be, I have no proof one way or the other), I think any decent deity would forgive my lack of faith. Basically, I see the whole question as irrelevant without further evidence, so why waste time until we are much closer to figuring out this whole thing we call universe.

The bad part, is how many people have killed and been killed defending and imposing beliefs that cannot in any logical way be defended with any rational argument (because faith is inherently irrational, as a lot of people have pointed out). If you want to have faith, fine by me. But don't even try to get someone else to do the same thing, that's what I say. And organized religions... those are blatant tools for control, and I hate those. Period. Jesus Christ (a widely accepted and documented historical figure) would drop to his knees in tears if he saw how his admittedly wise words were twisted by the many christian sects after his death. Chief among them the mess the formerly high priest of the sun god that ruled the Roman Empire compiled as the present-day bible when he switched religions (and made his whole empire switch religions with him, for political gains).

Rune. The only thing I believe without proof, is that everything is ultimately knowable. Even if I will never see it explained on my lifetime.

[Amram]

moderate religion with an open mind is very beneficial. it provides moral support to many who feel more comfortable with it than without, provides them with an answer they accept to things they either do not, or do not want to understand, and gives them hope for something better after all is said and done, that there is meaning to all of this, that their loved ones are not lost to them, just, waiting in the next room down the hall of existence. For all i know, they're right.

As has been said already, I can neither prove nor disprove any more than anyone else can. and im not one to go looking for a religious squabble. For all I know, their right. it just doesn't feel right to me, and so i don't have faith. To me its necessary to understand something. We don't know everything, we'd be rather high on ourselves if we thought we did, and I accept that. life is a learning experience, if you decide you know all you need and stop, to me, thats a shame. Evolution, or god, choose your own flavour, gifted you with an incredible reasoning power, to not use it is a waste. Use it to further religious knowledge, or to further science I care not, both further mankind as a whole.

My one short evil streak is reserved for the jehovah's that knock on my door, i'll chat religion if they'll come in, though the conversation might stray from where they planned. Im not visited often, lol.

Where I find religion to be an issue, to put it delicately, is extremists of any flavour(WBC, im glaring at you), blind faith without want for bettering ones own knowledge base, or a belief that those who do not believe are inherently evil or without moral compass. I believe the relevant quote to that is 'judge not lest ye be judged'

Warscribe, don't kid yourself, wealth and ordinary politics are responsible for just as many, if not more wars than religion alone. Though religion does have a few spectacular results behind it, I imagine the inquisition was fun. Starting a war is more a human nature thing, religion is little more than a justification to help them feel better about themselves for being evil bastards. If everyone 'loved thy neighbour' and didn't 'covet thy neighbours goods', there'd be a whole of zero wars in our history, the peace and love bit is conveniently forgotten when we have our human moments and let desire choose for us.

Edited April 26, 2013 by Amram

[karolus10]

O boy, we started talk about religion... Ok, then... please remember that many people are immune to reasoning about this issue.

Avoid flame or will be destroyed !

now I give my part :

In my opinion, Worst thing happen to earth are people that can't comprehend how somebody might have different beliefs than their own ("His a miscreant... Burn him - BURN HIM NOW !").

Especially when You cannot prove your belief system is true and other doesn't.

Edited April 26, 2013 by karolus10

[whatisthisidonteven]

Yes, I'm an Anglican. Quite disappointed to read through the thread and see so much hate towards religion. These militant atheists are just as annoying as any fundamentalist religious person.

Edited April 26, 2013 by whatisthisidonteven

[BlazingAngel665]

There are two separate arguments going on here. The first is "Is there a God(s)" and secondly "Are organized religions worth it?" To the second one there is no solid answer. Catholicism is the worlds largest donor to charities and relief agencies around the globe, mostly in the third world. Would those of us do as much good as those who essentially collect taxes from voluntary donations the term is a tithe, to donate to charity? On the same flip of the coin in the late 1400's much evil was done in the name of the church. So to answer this question I think the key is that IF there is a God who set up a religion, he shouldn't have picked imperfect humans to administer it. If some human high on crack just dreamed it all up then maybe drugs are a bigger problem then we think. . . But the basic foundation of religion, (in most cases) is sound enough. Morals help society work together and the support group can be helpful to many. However once again humans can corrupt the essence of a belief like "Spread the religion" into "Kill anyone who doesn't convert" and that applies to all religions from any point in history since zostrism(sp) basically.

On the second point, there isn't much argument to put into a supreme being. Weather he is an omnipotent spiritual being or the super computer of a more advanced race, the world around us shows subtle hints of intelligent design even higher up than the subatomic level. For example water, unique among all compounds, but why does it behave the way it does? More importantly why would it have that traits baring any kind of design in the world. Also religion and evolution are not mutually exclusive. The nuns(sisters actually but the difference is slight) at our school have believed in evolution longer than the science teacher. Intelligent design is the term that designates God being the guide behind evolution.

Finally I am Catholic, I believe in the whole thing no reservations. There has defiantly been malpractice and probably still will be, however as humans I think this is to be expected. Thanks to Amram for his final paragraph about wars, it saved me having to type it. People have done all sorts of things in the name of religion, most of them not directly endorsed or even condoned by that religion. In closing if the world had perfect religions it would be a much better place. But for all the evil done in there name they have still done a lot of good.

[TinfoilChef]

Am I "religious"? No. Religion is a creation of man, primarily to control the masses and gather wealth.

Do I believe in God? Yes. I've been a Christian (defined as one who believes in and follows the teachings of Jesus the Christ) since I was nine.

Will I debate the issue? No. That way lies madness.

[BlueSubstance]

No, I don't. :/

[ZedNova]

Well, i'm an Atheist, although i used to be a Catholic, so I've retained much of the stuff I've been taught, i rarely swear, I don't watch porn ect....

i really don't like fighting with Theists. Everyone Can believe in whatever they want, as long as they don't kill each other over their beliefs...

[czokletmuss]

Science vs religion is a delusional conflict. Scientific method won't ever give us answers for such important questions like: what are the values? which way of doing things is ethical? are there limits to our cognition? if yes, then why? why the Universe can be explained mathematically? why there are laws of nature and why in this particular version? how to live a decent life? what does it mean to be happy? And so on, and so on. There are reasons why philosophy and spirituality exists.

There is also a big difference between faith and organized religion, let's not forget about that.

Now, having said that - I'm not religious, if I have to describe myself I would say that I'm an agnostic (though I was baptized as a catholic when I was a child).

[nothke]

This is a very interesting subject for me. First off, I am NOT religious. I never had any connection to religion before my 18s, cause I was brought up in a post-socialist country and my parents or my surroundings look at religion in a "churches are nice buildings" way. however I have deep respect for religious people, and I have been visiting a religious camp every year for at least a week. It has cleared up many things in the way I think about the world.

And through all my reflection in the camp about religion, faith, etc. , if I cut the story short, I can say that, if someone is religious or not is really the matter of how you were brought up by your parents and/or surroundings. I have found much much more understanding with religious people then I have ever been with non-religious, and they completely understand why they are religious and why they chose to believe.. Just like me, I chose not to, but I perfectly understand both sides

Now science and faith are for me 2 different subjects. Science is really about finding HOW things are happening, the technical approach, while faith is about WHY do things happen, the meaning. Bible is not supposed to be a technical book that says world is created literally in 7 days, IT IS JUST A STORY!!! Also don't forget that the book was written 2000 years ago, for people who lived then, who didn't know about "the internets" xD. How many times I've got into a discussion WITH RELIGIOUS PEOPLE about why does God prefer Abel who grows crops over Cain who eats meat, then they go like "God tells us to be vegetarians". Nooooo, that's just a story! It's the story about sin, about not being able to accept defeat, not being able to forgive, about how jealousy is destructive, a wonderful story about life which could help us face similar situations in our life. I mean, God could've said, draw me a painting and one would paint red, and one black, and God picks red cause he simply prefers red xD In some cases, these misunderstands create fanatics who are also responsible for wars, people strong in faith are not responsible for wars

I mean, Bible is a great book, so many wonderful stories with a message, but that's it, it's a fairy tale, a good book. Les Miserables is a good book too, although there is no official religion that supports it.

And IMO, if you ask does God exists?, ask yourself.. When you don't want to be hungry, what do you do? You look for food to eat/replenish energy. When you don't want to be thirsty? You look for water to drink. And when you don't want to be confused... You look for meaning! We humans love giving meaning to everything cause we are "dying" in curiosity and we need to give meaning to anything chaotic.. And the inability to understand existence or death is why we have created God, perhaps two biggest problems for our sanity, and then you find comfort in god cause you have finally found meaning of life. And over time, it turns into "religion" as a social institution, cause we find even more comfort when we see other people believe the same thing.

Edited April 26, 2013 by nothke

[Netris]

Well, i'm an Atheist, although i used to be a Catholic, so I've retained much of the stuff I've been taught, i rarely swear, I don't watch porn ect....

i really don't like fighting with Theists. Everyone Can believe in whatever they want, as long as they don't kill each other over their beliefs...

Your life should be boring sometimes....

Anyway, I'm an atheist. I've read the thread and people who are arguing about "science could not explains everything so there's a god '" are very funny. Science will, one day, explains everything. Or the whole mankind will desepear before, but everything is explainable. God didn't create the universe and humanity, we are just the result of a lot of errors. Simply as that.

[czokletmuss]

Science will, one day, explains everything.

That's interesting. What do you mean by "everything"?

[Rune]

You know? This thread IS proving something to me: most KSP players that post on the forum are very nice people, showing respect for other people's beliefs and moderation and a calm approach to discussing touchy subjects. I honestly thought the thread would be non-stop flames by page two, but I'm liking 90% of the answers, whether I agree with them or not. Definitely

Rune. So kudos to us!