KSP in a High School Physics Class

[FizziksGuy]

Hi Everyone,

So I just bought a bunch of copies of KSP for use in my AP Physics class during the last four weeks of school. I'm planning on breaking the students into teams to compete in a "space exploration race." Based on just a few days of playing around with KSP, I've put this together as a first pass "guide to the project." I'd love to get input on what needs adjusting based on those who are considerably more experienced than I.

The project brief is located at: http://www.aplusphysics.com/projects/kerbal.html

Thanks in advance for any help / guidance you can provide!

--FizziksGuy

[FizziksGuy]

Hi Everyone,

So I just bought a bunch of copies of KSP for use in my AP Physics class during the last four weeks of school. I'm planning on breaking the students into teams to compete in a "space exploration race." Based on just a few days of playing around with KSP, I've put this together as a first pass "guide to the project." I'd love to get input on what needs adjusting based on those who are considerably more experienced than I.

The project brief is located at: http://www.aplusphysics.com/projects/kerbal.html

Thanks in advance for any help / guidance you can provide!

--FizziksGuy

I'm especially interested in the goals / rewards... do I have the right ones, are they too generous, should they be in a different order, etc. Thanks!

[sal_vager]

It's looking good so far FizziksGuy

I played something similar a long time ago, where the in-game parts were given new costs and each player had just enough funds to start with SRB's initially, in fact we all started with limited technology as well, pods, decouplers, chutes and SRB's were available at the start and we had to meet basic missions such as reaching a certain altitude.

Funds were spent on parts and on tech upgrades, such as liquid fuel tanks and engines, and more difficult missions became available over time.

I'm having a bit of difficulty finding the old thread though, but I hope my half remembered snippets have helped you

I remember I didn't do too well though, and ran out of funds!

[Cdr_Zeta]

Hello,

WOW (!) this looks amazing ! Not sure if some of the longer trips like to Eeloo (sp?) might fit in but the goals look great; funds received can go back into the space program...I havnt setup a funding program for my Kerbals yet; I would have to look at the pricing etc; kind of go with the MODDERS...I mean a space station core is gonna cost more than a beam part etc!

Good luck !

Cdr Zeta

[Kosmo-not]

• Landing on Mun - $100,000
  
• Landing on Minmus - $250,000
  
• Landing on Eve - $500,000
  
• Landing on Moho - $800,000
  
• Landing on Dres - $500,000
  
• Landing on Jool - $1,200,000
  
• Landing on Eeloo - $2,000,000
  

I would suggest a rearrangement on these rewards:

• Landing on Mun - $100,000
  
• Landing on Minmus - $80,000 (downgraded because it's easier than landing on Mun)
  
• Landing on Eve - $500,000
  
• Landing on Moho - $5,000,000 (this is by far the hardest one to land on due to delta-v requirements)
  
• Landing on Dres - $700,000
  
• Landing on one of Jool's moons - $500,000 to $1,200,000 (depending on which moon)
  
• Landing on Eeloo - $1,000,000
  
• Landing on Duna - $500,000
  

[Steampunked]

As an engineer working in industry I am always hoping for good results from these sort of school projects.

Anyways, on to a critique.

I would eliminate all non orbital milestones (learning to fly and build is part of the game and getting to orbit is the achievement). I would make orbital milestones 75km circular orbit, 150km circular orbit with a manned/unmanned category (minimum manned is 1 kerbal with bonus funds awarded for for using a 3 kerbal capsule). I would also like to see some sort of bonus metric based on numbers of parts and fuel consumed/unconsumed. Maybe they made a ship with a lot of parts but really dialed in their fuel requirement. This also assumes that they are not permitted to intentionally raise/lower their orbits in cycle so as to consume extra fuel. Perhaps you should include a fuel charge as a consumable so as to incentivize spending it wisely as well as not procuring a wasteful amount.

Also, I would like to simply mention a thought. Space flight is based on some fairly complicated physics. You and I (and many others who play this game) enjoy the game for a lot of reasons. One of them is likely to be we enjoy complicated and technical things and we also enjoy sandboxy type games. KSP is a good marriage of the two. However, I think what your intent with this project is, is to provide your students a glimpse in to the real world application of math and physics. That's fantastic and I think KSP is a pretty decent way to do that. But I would stress that without taking the time to introduce your students to real orbital mechanics and stepping them through calculations and how the calcs can apply to KSP and predicting the nature of your flight, then I think the ultimate intent of your project is going to be completely lost and at the end of the day all you are doing is asking your students to play a game. You don't necessarily need to even get them to do the math themselves- just show it to them step by step and in the order in which you would normally do the calcs. Show them the rocket equation and show how changing different components of them will effect the behaviour of the rocket. Step them through Hohmann transfer orbits and the reasons for using them. Help them to understand why they raise and lower their orbital nodes at opposite nodes so as to conserve fuel and maximize delta-v expenditure. Show them a Delta-V chart of the Kerbol system and show some examples of how Delta-V can be calculated for transfering between bodies.

There is a lot of math involved and at the end of the day not everybody is going to care. But some of them will, and some of those who will might never have been interested in the first place. So don't just throw a game at them- give them something interesting and challenging to learn. If it was easy none of us would be interested in the first place.

~ash

[Torham234]

Kerbal engineer redux gives you handy readout on the costs of each of the stages, making the task of working out the total price of the craft much easier.

[Daze]

I would suggest to stop the use of the mod and to let the students themselves to make the maths

[sadron]

I think Kerbal should always be a learning tool for schools :3

[FizziksGuy]

I would eliminate all non orbital milestones (learning to fly and build is part of the game and getting to orbit is the achievement). I would make orbital milestones 75km circular orbit, 150km circular orbit with a manned/unmanned category (minimum manned is 1 kerbal with bonus funds awarded for for using a 3 kerbal capsule). I would also like to see some sort of bonus metric based on numbers of parts and fuel consumed/unconsumed. Maybe they made a ship with a lot of parts but really dialed in their fuel requirement. This also assumes that they are not permitted to intentionally raise/lower their orbits in cycle so as to consume extra fuel. Perhaps you should include a fuel charge as a consumable so as to incentivize spending it wisely as well as not procuring a wasteful amount.

Thanks! These all sound like reasonable things to do!

Also, I would like to simply mention a thought. Space flight is based on some fairly complicated physics. You and I (and many others who play this game) enjoy the game for a lot of reasons. One of them is likely to be we enjoy complicated and technical things and we also enjoy sandboxy type games. KSP is a good marriage of the two. However, I think what your intent with this project is, is to provide your students a glimpse in to the real world application of math and physics. That's fantastic and I think KSP is a pretty decent way to do that. But I would stress that without taking the time to introduce your students to real orbital mechanics and stepping them through calculations and how the calcs can apply to KSP and predicting the nature of your flight, then I think the ultimate intent of your project is going to be completely lost and at the end of the day all you are doing is asking your students to play a game. You don't necessarily need to even get them to do the math themselves- just show it to them step by step and in the order in which you would normally do the calcs. Show them the rocket equation and show how changing different components of them will effect the behaviour of the rocket. Step them through Hohmann transfer orbits and the reasons for using them. Help them to understand why they raise and lower their orbital nodes at opposite nodes so as to conserve fuel and maximize delta-v expenditure. Show them a Delta-V chart of the Kerbol system and show some examples of how Delta-V can be calculated for transfering between bodies.

There is a lot of math involved and at the end of the day not everybody is going to care. But some of them will, and some of those who will might never have been interested in the first place. So don't just throw a game at them- give them something interesting and challenging to learn. If it was easy none of us would be interested in the first place.

Absolutely -- and these kids have worked extremely hard all year doing just that... My thoughts from a classroom standpoint are to focus on a single topic each week; for example, week 1 might be thrust-to-weight and staging, and tying that in with what they've already learned about Newton's Laws of Motion; week 2 would be orbits, tying in our classroom learning and theory with Delta-V and conservation of energy; week 3 would continue the study of orbits, with a focus on transfer orbits and theory; etc.

I didn't bring them up in the original post as I thought they might be outside the realm of interest, but I have five pages worth of questions and explorations for the kids to work through each week, using KSP as a backdrop and "application" of what they're doing each week and reflecting on in weekly individual blog posts. Tremendous ideas, feedback, and advice, thank you!!!

[sal_vager]

Hmm, FizziksGuy, you mentioned before that you bought several copies of KSP for your class, this is commendable, in fact your entire undertaking here with your students and KSP is to be commended.

But I wonder if you are aware that Squad encourages space education and will gladly work out better purchase terms for education establishments?

Also, please keep us updated with how this course turns out, we'd love to know

[NannerManCan]

The ksp accounts are on 0.19.1 right? Because the pictures are from 0.16 I think

[Exal]

I can't believe u have computers in class that can run this at a usable fps. In my high school we were lucky to get the cheapest computers in class. And it was a year ago that's graduated. But heck that awesome that ur using this I wish my physics teacher did stuff like this

[Spartwo]

why can`t I have teachers like this:/

also the orbit milestones seem a tad generous although they could be for quick funding.

[RawChicken]

Awesome! I did learn a lot from KSP!

The only downside is that now all space movies are wrong! hahaa

[NuclearWarfare]

Seems like you have the rules and such down. I do not particularly like the idea of teams on the game. I hope you have a way to make even and fair turns for players.

[FizziksGuy]

Hmm, FizziksGuy, you mentioned before that you bought several copies of KSP for your class, this is commendable, in fact your entire undertaking here with your students and KSP is to be commended.

But I wonder if you are aware that Squad encourages space education and will gladly work out better purchase terms for education establishments?

Also, please keep us updated with how this course turns out, we'd love to know

Thanks -- I did contact them and they did offer a discount on more than 15 copies, but having only six computers in my classroom, I didn't qualify. Regardless, I think it should work out fine. :-)

[FizziksGuy]

I do believe frame rate is going to be an issue, but am hoping the kids can make do...

[SalmonellaDingDong]

You should take the work part out and just let them play KSP for fun since the year is almost over.

[Sempiternal]

Oh God I am so jelly of these students...

[Bonanza123d]

If you were going to do something more serious, i recommend Orbiter, but KSP is an excellent learning tool and introduction.

[EternallySlaying]

You should take the work part out and just let them play KSP for fun since the year is almost over.

This is an AP Physics class, I understand that seems like a good idea, but every student I was in AP classes with were serious about learning the material. It was even enjoyable to do so, with FizziksGuy doing a class like this, I'm sure some of the students will go so far as to keep working on the assignment through summer, and start doing more complex missions like establishing bases, while personally going though the formulas themselves.

Dear god this post sounds kind of rude '! Does not intend...

Edited May 4, 2013 by EternallySlaying

[Capt'n Skunky]

This is what I need to show my contact at NASA that's involved in educational outreach. Let me know when you have a some data on how well it works and when you've perfected your lesson plan.

Maybe we can get NASA to pick this up

Cheers!

Capt'n Skunky

KSP Community Manager

[patrickcanttype]

Hi Everyone,

So I just bought a bunch of copies of KSP for use in my AP Physics class during the last four weeks of school. I'm planning on breaking the students into teams to compete in a "space exploration race." Based on just a few days of playing around with KSP, I've put this together as a first pass "guide to the project." I'd love to get input on what needs adjusting based on those who are considerably more experienced than I.

The project brief is located at: http://www.aplusphysics.com/projects/kerbal.html

Thanks in advance for any help / guidance you can provide!

--FizziksGuy

From the perspective of a college level physics student, after looking at the project brief, my only major critique is the apparent amount of work the students will have to do for each report. After all, if they feel like it's too much work they won't enjoy it. If they enjoy it, then they will most likely learn it better because they will be interested. For example, making them break down each stage will get redundent quickly and will be nothing more than filler-work.

That being said I think it's fantastic that you're bringing the highly-educational side of KSP into a classroom enviornment, as this is the type of thing that can truley draw interest into a field of science.

[paleorob]

We don't have physics at the school I teach at, just upper level biology and AP Chem. One student transferred in with half a year's worth of physics credit, though, so she is doing an independent study on physics for the last part of the class. She was having some problems so I introduced her to the demo. She likes it but I need to get back with her on if it has helped. Apparently she has been able to land on the Mun...