Apollo Mission Pack Development (Beta version released!)

[Razorcane]

One thing that really irks me is the physics of KSP. They don't allow for more accurate thrust/fuel/weight values. Even after I put in proper values, and the ship lifted off really slowly, the Saturn V tore itself apart from who knows what. Granted it had 22000 kN of thrust, but it launched at less than 10m/s, so I don't understand why it ripped itself apart. The devs should really do something about that.

[Reddragon]

One thing that really irks me is the physics of KSP. They don't allow for more accurate thrust/fuel/weight values. Even after I put in proper values, and the ship lifted off really slowly, the Saturn V tore itself apart from who knows what. Granted it had 22000 kN of thrust, but it launched at less than 10m/s, so I don't understand why it ripped itself apart. The devs should really do something about that.

Was that with or without ASAS? Not sure but that always did bad things to big things. They are going to fix that in 0.21. Altough the apollo current version doesn't have any problems with it. But maybe it's not that..

[HGGundamReviews]

KSP is scaled down something like 65-75% of real world, Look at the numbers for say the Soyuz launchers and then what Bobcat made his to be.

[Reddragon]

Kerbin is about 10 times smaller than Earth. Bobcat's Soyuz is not that accurate since I made with it to the Mun.

[Kerbal01]

KSP is scaled down something like 65-75% of real world, Look at the numbers for say the Soyuz launchers and then what Bobcat made his to be.

64% is the most commonly accepted value.

[Razorcane]

Kerbin is about 10 times smaller than Earth. Bobcat's Soyuz is not that accurate since I made with it to the Mun.

Russia also sent the Soyuz to the moon.

KSP is scaled down something like 65-75% of real world, Look at the numbers for say the Soyuz launchers and then what Bobcat made his to be.

Yes I know, that was scaled down to 64%. The first stage of the Saturn V produces 34,000 kN of thrust.

7648000 * 0.00444822162 = 34019.99894976

34019.99894976 * .64 = 21772.7993278464

Edited July 3, 2013 by Razorcane

[Reddragon]

Russia also sent the Soyuz to the moon.

I mean the 3 crew module with the orbital module which is used for the ISS not the probe launcher. I don't think it could perform an Apollo 8 style lunar flyby.

[MK3424]

I mean the 3 crew module with the orbital module which is used for the ISS not the probe launcher. I don't think it could perform an Apollo 8 style lunar flyby.

I think he meant the zond 5 wich is a stripped down soyuz spacecraft.

[Reddragon]

I think he meant the zond 5 wich is a stripped down soyuz spacecraft.

I did this with the Soyuz TMA to clarify this. There is of course the Soyuz U but that looks like almost the same. I think still today the N1 was the only russian rocket designed for manned lunar expeditions.

Edited July 4, 2013 by Reddragon

[iamaphazael]

One thing that really irks me is the physics of KSP. They don't allow for more accurate thrust/fuel/weight values. Even after I put in proper values, and the ship lifted off really slowly, the Saturn V tore itself apart from who knows what. Granted it had 22000 kN of thrust, but it launched at less than 10m/s, so I don't understand why it ripped itself apart. The devs should really do something about that.

When you start to get into the kinds of fuel masses required to do a performance accurate version, even with kerbal-scaled values for thrust and stage timing, the game can't handle the part masses involved. Hopefully at some point the part connections will be fixed so that you can have parts with those masses. In the meantime, the only real solutions are to use unrealistcally high ISPs, or to make new resource types with a higher energy density and use those instead. Sometime soon I'll try playing around with that.

In other news, I've survived my trek, and am now on the coast I belong on, but it will still be a little while before I can get my workstation set up. So, I still won't be getting any work done for a little while longer, but my radio blackout is over. Hope you're all well.

[Razorcane]

When you start to get into the kinds of fuel masses required to do a performance accurate version, even with kerbal-scaled values for thrust and stage timing, the game can't handle the part masses involved. Hopefully at some point the part connections will be fixed so that you can have parts with those masses. In the meantime, the only real solutions are to use unrealistcally high ISPs, or to make new resource types with a higher energy density and use those instead. Sometime soon I'll try playing around with that.

In other news, I've survived my trek, and am now on the coast I belong on, but it will still be a little while before I can get my workstation set up. So, I still won't be getting any work done for a little while longer, but my radio blackout is over. Hope you're all well.

Well I think that's absolute bollocks, to be honest. That the game can't handle higher levels of thrust/weight. I just want to increase them to levels that make more sense, because the thrust values have very large differences, and right now they do not. It's quite a predicament. Seriously though Squad, you should really fix that, and let us use higher thrust/weight values. At least give us 10k thrust/1k tons.

[POTKC]

Any news? Just something small, to show us you're still alive?

[iamaphazael]

Any news? Just something small, to show us you're still alive?

I'm still trying to find a place to set up shop for the summer, and there is a stack of CSM models that Razorcane has done that are waiting for me to run them through Unity. After I get settled, and after 0.21 hits, I'll release an updated version of the pack with all of the latest parts. probably won't be for a week or two, though

[Razorcane]

First you were going to be away for a week, then it was two weeks. Then after that passed it's another two weeks. Come on man. People have lost all interest in this mod.

[Good_Apollo]

What? With .21 around the corner, no modder would waste his time pushing something out.

[Reddragon]

I didn't lost my interest! Just saying.. this thread is amongst my bookmarks, I watch it every day for news. But I think waiting for 0.21 should be a clever idea.

[Yasutaka]

I didn't lost my interest! Just saying.. this thread is amongst my bookmarks, I watch it every day for news. But I think waiting for 0.21 should be a clever idea.

Agreed. I'm not even playing KSP at the moment, but I'm still dropping in to check on this thread, among others, from time to time. Many if not most of the big names in the KSP modding scene seem to be waiting for 0.21 to come out. No need to worry, Razorcane.

[Cepheus]

Just read through this thread, and very impressive work. Amazing, really.

[iamaphazael]

First you were going to be away for a week, then it was two weeks. Then after that passed it's another two weeks. Come on man. People have lost all interest in this mod.

Sorry. Life happens sometimes. I arrived where I am last week with my fiancee, expecting to have a place to live in for the summer. That fell through, though, and so we're currently staying with some friends of hers while we figure things out. I'm trying to find a place to set up an office for myself so I can get back to work on my dissertation, which is top priority for me. Once I have a place set up, though, I can start to put some spare time towards work on the mod again. Sorry it's been longer than I expected, but this is what my life is like right now. I have weeks when I have time to work on stuff, and weeks when I don't.

I'm not really too concerned about people losing interest, and it seems clear that they're not (and thank you, all, for the encouragement). I'm playing a long game here. KSP still has a lot of growing to do, and I plan to keep this mod alive through all of it, so it will continue to be the definitive Apollo mod right until KSP 1.0 is released. From that perspective, it doesn't matter to me if things move slowly, and it's okay if some people get tired of waiting for something and move on: the mod will still be there next time they go looking for it.

That said, I know you're anxious to see your work go into a release. I really want to get out a new version with the latest models too. It will really help drum up interest again. But for one thing, it really doesn't make sense to do it until 0.21 comes out and I can adapt the parts to take advantage of some of the program changes being made, and like I said, I just am not in a situation where I can do anything about it right now. I'm hopefully going to be setting up a workstation tomorrow, so it shouldn't be too much longer before I have something to show for my efforts.

Stay tuned.

[Whirligig Girl]

I hope AMP gets release before Apollo day is over.

[Razorcane]

Sorry. Life happens sometimes. I arrived where I am last week with my fiancee, expecting to have a place to live in for the summer. That fell through, though, and so we're currently staying with some friends of hers while we figure things out. I'm trying to find a place to set up an office for myself so I can get back to work on my dissertation, which is top priority for me. Once I have a place set up, though, I can start to put some spare time towards work on the mod again. Sorry it's been longer than I expected, but this is what my life is like right now. I have weeks when I have time to work on stuff, and weeks when I don't.

I'm not really too concerned about people losing interest, and it seems clear that they're not (and thank you, all, for the encouragement). I'm playing a long game here. KSP still has a lot of growing to do, and I plan to keep this mod alive through all of it, so it will continue to be the definitive Apollo mod right until KSP 1.0 is released. From that perspective, it doesn't matter to me if things move slowly, and it's okay if some people get tired of waiting for something and move on: the mod will still be there next time they go looking for it.

That said, I know you're anxious to see your work go into a release. I really want to get out a new version with the latest models too. It will really help drum up interest again. But for one thing, it really doesn't make sense to do it until 0.21 comes out and I can adapt the parts to take advantage of some of the program changes being made, and like I said, I just am not in a situation where I can do anything about it right now. I'm hopefully going to be setting up a workstation tomorrow, so it shouldn't be too much longer before I have something to show for my efforts.

Stay tuned.

It's not that I want to see my work, it's that I want everyone to be as excited about this mod as I am, but I can see that's not a problem yet.

[Reddragon]

As long as 0.21 arrives and the work is paused may I ask how the Saturn V improvement has been going on for the mod? I'm really interested if there was any further work made on the rocket parts.

[Guest]

It's not that I want to see my work, it's that I want everyone to be as excited about this mod as I am, but I can see that's not a problem yet.

Trust me, I'm very excited about this mod. But I know pestering you about it won't make it get completed any faster.

[Razchek]

Unfortunately, using a plugin like that would mean that you'd need a relatively expensive computer to run the mod at a decent framerate. I'd rather not compromise that in any way. I suppose it might be doable if it was used only on the command pod, though. I'll talk to aphazael about it. What concerns me is the fact that it essentially removes the texture to use a reflection cubemap, and that is undesirable on something as complex as the command pod.

The plugin actually carries the textures over. The 'reflective' texture that is a cubemap is added onto a third texture buffer.

I think the only shader in KSP stock shaders that has 3 textures is the Emissive Bumped Specular shader. Even then, all three of those textures will be carried as long as you use the right reflective parallax shader.

Depending on the settings as well you can have a computer that just meets KSP minimum settings run the plugin effectively.

Perhaps I should add a LOD check for the plugin to automatically set this lol.

[Razorcane]

As long as 0.21 arrives and the work is paused may I ask how the Saturn V improvement has been going on for the mod? I'm really interested if there was any further work made on the rocket parts.

Well I would like to improve the parts, however I'm still very new to this process, so any improvements will most likely take a few days per part at the very least. As for the stuff that has been shown, there haven't been any further improvements.

The plugin actually carries the textures over. The 'reflective' texture that is a cubemap is added onto a third texture buffer.

I think the only shader in KSP stock shaders that has 3 textures is the Emissive Bumped Specular shader. Even then, all three of those textures will be carried as long as you use the right reflective parallax shader.

Depending on the settings as well you can have a computer that just meets KSP minimum settings run the plugin effectively.

Perhaps I should add a LOD check for the plugin to automatically set this lol.

Oh look, the mod creator! Yea after looking at the textures, they are barely visible underneath the shininess. Don't take this in a bad way, I just have poor eyesight. That being said, I think it's best to make this mod compatible without requiring another plugin. However, adding the reflective shader to a part seems rather simple, and if people wanted a reflective surface, they would be more than capable of doing it themselves, due to the easy learning curve of the mod.