[0.23.5] Spherical and Toroidal Tank Pack (Updated 05/02/14) (New download link)

[FaceDeer]

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0D_PFGuuyqocWNBOEV6cGQwajQ/edit?usp=sharing

I've actually built support frameworks like that for spherical tanks out of stock girders and struts to make ground-based fuel depots, it worked quite well.

A promising-looking mod I haven't tried yet (it hasn't updated to 0.23) is UbioZur Welding Ltd., it might prove useful for some of these sorts of cases. It takes several existing parts and combines them together into a single part. I imagine once spherical tanks has those mix-and-match adapters it'll be something I use a lot to fuse together the ones I use frequently, to improve structural strength and reduce part count for the physics engine. You could perhaps use this to weld girders onto the base to suit your needs.

[IsicDiscontinuity]

So I'm still having trouble with the spherical and toroidal tanks being way too heavy compared to stock parts (when not using real fuels).

Are there any guides for a Spherical_modularFuelTanks.cfg which bring them more into line with their stock counterparts? It mostly looks like the volumes for the tanks should be way higher given their masses, though since they're not actually much bigger then the stock parts in game that feels slightly cheat-ish since they're magically increasing fuel density.

[Talisar]

So I'm still having trouble with the spherical and toroidal tanks being way too heavy compared to stock parts (when not using real fuels).

Are there any guides for a Spherical_modularFuelTanks.cfg which bring them more into line with their stock counterparts? It mostly looks like the volumes for the tanks should be way higher given their masses, though since they're not actually much bigger then the stock parts in game that feels slightly cheat-ish since they're magically increasing fuel density.

Actually, spheres have quite a lot larger volume than you would expect when compared to cylinders of a similar length. There was a lot of math done in order to get the masses and volumes balanced against stock parts earlier in the thread. You can see the summary HERE

Conversely, the volumes of tori are actually much lower than you would expect, and their masses would be far greater than you would expect. Again, math was done HERE (not as comprehensive as the spherical ones, as I fudged it for the other sizes a bit)

The fuel densities being used were figured to be as close to those used by stock parts as possible (stock parts are inconsistent between themselves, so there is a bit of variation, but it's as close as can be expected.). Math is HERE for LFO and a summary for other fuels is HERE.

All of the above is just to demonstrate that a lot of work has gone into ensuring that these parts are as balanced as possible and not cheaty. That being said, if you are using ModuleManager to allow you to change the fuel types in the tanks, make up a cfg with the following and place it in your gamedata folder. That should allow the MFT plugin to figure the masses for the tanks while using stock fuels in the same way that does using real fuels, and as it is assuming cylindrical tanks you end up with far smaller masses. (I think.... I'm not a pro at making MM configs)

@PART[TAL*]
{
    @MODULE[ModuleFuelTanks]

      {
      !basemass
      }

}

[Talisar]

I was thinking more the other way...dome just like it is, but framework same as your bottom piece, but with legs extending down from that, AWAY from the dome...so there is room to put docking ports on or between the legs...

I'm thinking of the bottom piece being attached to the tank permanantly, and possibly having options for different parts that would be available to attach for utility. Such as a framework like you describe for land bases, or adapter plates with mounting points for multiple cylindrical attachments, or a cargo bay. That way I'd only need one tank model, and you could add the part that you need for any particular mission profile.

[Kokanee]

Any hope of a. 23 update?

[Railgunner2160]

Really?!?! Try reading the last 3-4 pages!!! The answer is yes there will be just as soon as MFS is updated to .23!!!!

If you'd bother to actually read back a little you would've seen that your question has already been asked and answered.....

[Talisar]

Yes, I'll be doing an official update once MFT is updated.

However, it appears to be working as intended if you use the experimental version of MFT linked in THIS POST. I'd suggest giving that a try, and if you find any issues, they would like to hear about them so they can get the official release out as bug-free as possible.

-edit- That is only for the stock fuel types, if you are using Real Fuels or RO, it will take a bit longer

Edited December 25, 2013 by Talisar

[Virtualgenius]

Will this still work If you dont want the modular fuel stuff just not interested in it but love the tanks

[Talisar]

Will this still work If you dont want the modular fuel stuff just not interested in it but love the tanks

I have it set up so it will work without modular fuels, but you will only have LiquidFuel/Oxygen tanks.

[Virtualgenius]

Bugger I liked the RCS tanks what version had all the tanks without all the plugin stuff mm might be a mix match as I like your structural stuff and radial mounts as well, can i ask a question as why you went down this new path instead of just doing updates to the releases, was it to save time on the models or the content was growing in size just interested is all

Edited December 26, 2013 by Virtualgenius

[Talisar]

It just got too big. Before I started using MFT, the pack added over 150 tanks to the VAB, and that doesn't include any of the structural stuff. Now with the plugin, it's down to 12 fuel and 12 supply tanks.

[Kaa253]

I know that this and MFT are not updated to 0.23 yet. I am using the dev version of MFT but I found that for the Extraplanetary resources; Ore and Metal, that in the VAB while it reported "None" I was actually getting full tanks. As a fix, I removed the statement "fillable=false" from TankTypes.cfg and restarted KSP. Then I was able to edit the tank contents to be 0.01 units. I think it is OK now. I found it a little difficult to try to launch 188 tons of metal

[taniwha]

188t? Obviously not the large tank

[Manni Metzger]

Hi, ive got a little problem with the pack, everytime when tanks are loaded (ingame, career and sandbox saves) the texture switcher module creates an overlay on the right side of the screen. When its loading and looking for nodes and stuff the game nearly freezes. I have the tank pack installed, no MFT. Any ideas on this? Will the pack still work when i delete the texture switcher module? Or is there any other means to get rid of the overlay and eventually the lag / freeze it gives me?

[Talisar]

The tanks will work fine if you remove the texture switching module completely. I haven't seen this problem myself, but if you would like to keep the ability to switch the colors my first thought is to ask if you have the most recent FireSpitter plugin installed. The one with the current pack is out of date, so that may be causing the problem you are having.

[careo]

The tanks will work fine if you remove the texture switching module completely. I haven't seen this problem myself, but if you would like to keep the ability to switch the colors my first thought is to ask if you have the most recent FireSpitter plugin installed. The one with the current pack is out of date, so that may be causing the problem you are having.

Yeah. I can confirm that the texture switching works fine if you update firespitter.

[Manni Metzger]

The tanks will work fine if you remove the texture switching module completely. I haven't seen this problem myself, but if you would like to keep the ability to switch the colors my first thought is to ask if you have the most recent FireSpitter plugin installed. The one with the current pack is out of date, so that may be causing the problem you are having.

You were absolutely right about that, Firespitter update fixed it!

Regards Manni

[NotCoach]

I know you aren't updating until MFS is updated, but there is something wrong with the utilization values for the storage tanks in relationship to TAC Life Support. All waste resources have a ridiculously small utilization number resulting in less than zero (by unit) capacity in the smallest spherical (haven't unlocked medium or large in career mode yet) tank for these items. I changed them myself in my own config to a utilization number equal to the utilization numbers for food, water, and oxygen. I assume that a utilization number less than 5 accounts for structure, but I have no idea why the TAC Life Support waste resources would be less than the number for food, water, and oxygen.

[Talisar]

I know you aren't updating until MFS is updated, but there is something wrong with the utilization values for the storage tanks in relationship to TAC Life Support. All waste resources have a ridiculously small utilization number resulting in less than zero (by unit) capacity in the smallest spherical (haven't unlocked medium or large in career mode yet) tank for these items. I changed them myself in my own config to a utilization number equal to the utilization numbers for food, water, and oxygen. I assume that a utilization number less than 5 accounts for structure, but I have no idea why the TAC Life Support waste resources would be less than the number for food, water, and oxygen.

I just looked at it, and it would appear that I made a copy/paste error when updating to the new TAC resource naming scheme. I'll have it fixed in the update, but for the time being you can replace the tanktypes.cfg in the ModsByTal/Parts/FuelTank/Resources folder with the following to fix it:

TANK_DEFINITION
{
    name = TALUTILITY
    basemass = -1
    TANK
    {
      name = RocketParts
      utilization = 0.86957
      mass = 0.0025
      amount = 0.0
      maxAmount = 0.0
       note = (EL Mod Required)
    }
    TANK
    {
      name = Metal
      fillable = false
      utilization = 0.86957
      mass = 0.039
      amount = 0.0
      maxAmount = 0.0
       note = (EL Mod Required)
    }
    TANK
    {
      name = Ore
      fillable = false
      utilization = 0.86957
      mass = 0.0275
      amount = 0.0
      maxAmount = 0.0
       note = (EL Mod Required)
    }
    TANK
    {
      name = Food
      utilization = 3.91039
      mass = 0.0003166535
      amount = 0.0
      maxAmount = 0.0
       note = (TAC Life Support Mod Required)
    }    TANK
    {
      name = Water
      utilization = 3.91039
      mass = 0.0017977746
      amount = 0.0
      maxAmount = 0.0
       note = (TAC Life Support Mod Required)
    }    TANK
    {
      name = Oxygen
      utilization = 3.91039
      mass = 0.0004290144
      amount = 0.0
      maxAmount = 0.0
       note = (TAC Life Support Mod Required)
    }
    TANK
    {
      name = CarbonDioxide
      fillable = false
      utilization = 3.91039
      mass = 0.0005107314
      amount = 0.0
      maxAmount = 0.0
       note = (TAC Life Support Mod Required)
    }
    TANK
    {
      name = Waste
      fillable = false
      utilization = 3.91039
      mass = 0.0000561805
      amount = 0.0
      maxAmount = 0.0
       note = (TAC Life Support Mod Required)
    }
    TANK
    {
      name = WasteWater
      fillable = false
      utilization = 3.91039
      mass = 0.0019765307
      amount = 0.0
      maxAmount = 0.0
       note = (TAC Life Support Mod Required)
    }
}

Thanks for the catch on that

[Kaa253]

188t? Obviously not the large tank

Correct. Just a medium tank but when full of metal in Kerbin's g-field that was easily enough weight to crush my medium booster.

Thanks for the heads-up NotCoach and for the fix Talisar, I expect you guys just saved me from some more frustrations. I use TAC but had not yet discovered that problem.

Edited December 28, 2013 by Kaa253

[Talisar]

Correct. Just a medium tank but when full of metal in Kerbin's g-field that was easily enough weight to crush my medium booster.

Thanks for the heads-up NotCoach and for the fix Talisar, I expect you guys just saved me from some more frustrations. I use TAC but had not yet discovered that problem.

No worries. I just started using TACLS myself, so I hadn't noticed it either.

Along the same lines, I didn't ignore your post about the EL resources. I haven't played with it recently, so I'll have to see what is up with it. It uses exactly the same process as the fuels, so I'm not sure why it would be acting that that, but I'll check it out. Maybe some weird interaction with the tweakables...

Another thought, does the same thing happen if you make the regular tanks hold kethane?

[Kaa253]

Another thought, does the same thing happen if you make the regular tanks hold kethane?

LOL. Good question. Time to get serious about play testing

OK, to be sure (as I have had some bad interactions between mods since upgrading to 0.23) I made a clean install of KSP 0.23 and added only ModsByTal, Kethane, EL, Firespitter and the this dev version of MFT http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/52780-Modular-Fuel-System-Continued-v3-3?p=865815&viewfull=1#post865815

For MFT I use only the plugin dll itself, nothing else from that mod. The others are a full mod installs and all up to date.

Then, YES, I get the same with Kethane.

I really suspect it is MFT. I can continue with my temporary hack of the TankTypes.cfg for now. I think it best to sit tight and wait for NathanKell to finalize his MFT update.

Reminder: I have Linux 64 bit... probably not relevant.

[Talisar]

Since it's happening with Kethane as well, you are most likely correct that it is a MFT issue. I was worried that it may have been being caused by my custom tanktypes for the supply resources, but Kethane is not handled by that one.

I'll look to see if this is a known issue, and if not I'll bring it to NathanKell's and taniwha's attention.

[Talisar]

Updated pack.

v3.1

- Compatible with KSP v0.23

- Updated to current version of FireSpitter plugin

- Corrected amounts of TAC waste resources in storage containers

You will need the MFT plugin to be able to use the modular fuels options

[Donziboy2]

Downloaded v3.1 and MFT but I only have options to change LF and O, nothing else...