.20 is buggy.

[SecondGuessing]

The nature of PC gaming means that regardless of how many testers you have there will always be members of the public who find some new issue. This isn't going to be solved by Squad. The best bet, if you are really concerned about bugs and crashed, is to wait until the bugfix patch to update your game, rather than to update it when the content patch comes out. It's really that simple.

Plus, it's an alpha game, are you people seriously not backing up your save files constantly?

[samstarman5]

Expecting offensive behaviour as well as being borderline offensive serves nothing to providing a productive thread. If you can't handle the responses you get on here, then maybe you should question whether the bugs you are experiencing really are unique to you. They may very well be due to your system setup, graphics driver, age of your system, and a whole parade of other secondary reasons where incompatibility with the Unity engine and/or the game mechanics can create issues.

It isn't just a case of the game being in Alpha and still in development, but the fact it is a PC game, where there is a plethora of different variations that can create issues with certain games.

Instead of being selfish and ignoring people actually contributing to your thread, you might do yourself and others a service by creating a bug list yourself and submitting it to Squad in a mature and well-worded fashion. Otherwise you just come off as being worried about your own game experience and could care less how others are affected. The players who contribute to the KSP Forums are basically a community, all with the interest of seeing KSP become an awesome game. Feel free to contribute constructively or you can just observe.

[sjwt]

I have not found this to be the case, 30 day ban and thread locked!

But seriously, testing is conducted and most issues that can be resolved are..

Did you perform a clean install and are you working on new ships?

I have found cupolas cause crafts to spin out of control.

Harsher punishment for submitting useless bug reports (i.e. 30 minute ban and/or locking of the thread)

[Truga]

I am playing the latest public release. It is not experimental, it is the official, supposedly major-bug free version.

You're clearly not familiar with the therm "Alpha version".

[drakesdoom]

Let me rephrase in simple terms.

"the few features of this update are riddled with bugs and issues"

"we should have an opt-in ability for experimentals to help with finding and identifying these bugs so they can be fixed"

"i would gladly wait one more week to get a more stable version free of bugs that are causing a lot of players grief"

"this is vanilla with no mods"

1. This is an alpha test there will be bugs.

2. The opt-in ability was your ability to not buy the pre-release. No one told you this was a finished bug free game, in fact they specifically said this was an alpha with many features missing and barley playable.

3. You could have waited for full release and gotten a stable bug free version. Also causing grief implies intent, and squad has no intent on ruining your fun.

4. See above for why that doesn't matter.

[Aphox]

I love this trend that people are following, saying that alpha isn't an excuse for buggy releases.

Actually, yeah, it kind of is. The very definition of an alpha release is a product showcase that is bound to contain bugs, and may compromise data. Being part of an alpha-released game involves dealing with those things. If you can't commit to it, then I'd suggest not playing until late alpha or early beta.

I also suggest calming tensions in here a bit. *cough* nats *cough*

As for me, I haven't experienced a single bug listed in the OP, even while playing with broken mods. Some people will have problems, some people won't. It seems to vary from system to system.

[sjwt]

Let me rephrase in simple terms.

"we should have an opt-in ability for experimentals to help with finding and identifying these bugs so they can be fixed"

"i would gladly wait one more week to get a more stable version free of bugs that are causing a lot of players grief"

You have already opt-in to test KSP it is after all Alpha, have you tried any of the current AAA games on release? they make KSP look magic!

Bug fixes do come as X.1's etc.. Feel free to wait until they come out.

[Aphox]

You have already opt-in to test KSP it is after all Alpha, have you tried any of the current AAA games on release? they make KSP look magic!

I was just thinking about this. I've seen alphas, and crap, even BETA releases of AAA titles that make KSP look like a Veyron next to a pile of scrap metal.

[karolus10]

Sputnik-1, please describe further (adding screen-shots or video helps as well) problems You encounter . Also please remember that game was tested to work well on fresh install, so You had no guarantee that mods can cause some problems.

EDIT_1: Also I didn't experienced on my computer any of problems listed above, (nearly) everything is going just right :/.

Edited May 23, 2013 by karolus10

[Sputnik-1]

I am speaking in general about the bugs most have experienced in a normal task.

I am sorry if I am coming off as hostile, or, more bluntly, an ass. I'm annoyed at people ignoring the main point of this thread, instead just calling "it's an alpha bugs are expected" and ignoring what I am trying to say.

There should be better checking of bugs. The mentality of "alpha - bugs are okay" is a bad one. I expect bugs. I do my part and if I need to I will report bugs. However, most of these bug reports would be redundant.

This is vanilla and fresh install with freshly built crafts, presumably.

"Harsher punishment for submitting useless bug reports (i.e. 30 minute ban and/or locking of the thread)"

This is, agreeably, a terrible suggestion. But it's sticking something out there, a punishment for posting very useless and redundant threads.

This thread was made, more or less, to discuss what should be done in future updates, and in regards to testing.

[StainX]

I don't get what this discussion is all about! So you guys are talking bout that the game is not tested enough and more people should get access to experimentals!?

But we all are testers, the game is not stated released, just 0.20 is stated released, so go play the game and report those bugs you encounter! And im sure Squad will try to fix em in 0.20.1!

Or should they stop updating the game for you guys until the "release" in a few years!?

[stefwilliams]

We get it, you'd gladly wait a few weeks more to have a more stable version. Well, don't update till then.

0.18 and 0.19 both had smaller patches done in the following weeks, only focused on bug-fixing. You want to wait for 0.20.1.

You can disable auto-update on Steam, you can keep your old folder on the DRM-free version.

That, right there

[NeoMorph]

Sputnik-1, just read this...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha_version#Alpha

Alpha software can be unstable and could cause crashes or data loss.

[nats]

I also suggest calming tensions in here a bit. *cough* nats *cough*

Sorry I tend to type more strongly than I obviously feel! I am fine with people having a say on what matters to them and maybe if I come across any of these bugs I might agree a bit with the OP. But at the moment I am very happy with the game, the way its developing and I am not doing daft things like building permanent bases and massive spacestations that will get affected by various patches. I am prepared to start from scratch after each patch. I think this patch though was an unfortunate mod breaker in preparation for the career. There wont be many more like this I hope.

The one issue though I do have is that Squad should have warned people before releasing the patch, if there was any danger of it ruining peoples games. When a patch is released on Steam it automatically updates the game unless you have told it not to. Tehrefore Squad should have given everyone plenty of warning of the impending release date and another warning just before release. That is the right thing to do so anyone who doesnt want to update can change their settings. And also it gives people a chance to finish what they were doing in the game (base, trip, landing, station, etc) before the patch comes along and wipes it all out.

So I would like to see them make use of Facebook for that kind of thing instead of all the spam I keep getting from them. Other than that I am a happy bunny.

[Aphox]

Sorry I tend to type more strongly than I obviously feel! I am fine with people having a say on what matters to them and maybe if I come across any of these bugs I might agree a bit with the OP. But at the moment I am very happy with the game, the way its developing and I am not doing daft things like building permanent bases and massive spacestations that will get affected by various patches. I am prepared to start from scratch after each patch. I think this patch though was an unfortunate mod breaker in preparation for the career. There wont be many more like this I hope.

The one issue though I do have is that Squad should have warned people before releasing the patch, if there was any danger of it ruining peoples games. When a patch is released on Steam it automatically updates the game unless you have told it not to. Tehrefore Squad should have given everyone plenty of warning of the impending release date and another warning just before release. That is the right thing to do so anyone who doesnt want to update can change their settings. And also it gives people a chance to finish what they were doing in the game (base, trip, landing, station, etc) before the patch comes along and wipes it all out.

So I would like to see them make use of Facebook for that kind of thing instead of all the spam I keep getting from them. Other than that I am a happy bunny.

I can reason with your point, but they did drop a lot of warnings that it was coming soon, to be fair. It was posted about in their roadmap-esque milestone thread days before it came out, which was a good indication to start making backups. They also posted about it on Facebook AND Tumblr, and I assume Twitter, but I don't follow anything there.

[wminsing]

One reason why I always download each new version as a fresh install so I don't lose prior work if the build turns out problematic.

But I actually agree with the OP in the sense that there will be no harm in having a larger testing team. Have folks apply via the forum, submit a sample bug report to see if they have the skills, and boot them if they don't follow through when working with the experimental builds. Just because "it's Alpha" doesn't mean Squad *shouldn't* try to smash as many bugs as possible as early as possible; it's always better to catch bugs close to when they are first being created to help make sure they are fixed properly and the fix itself doesn't introduce new bugs. Trying to track down a bug weeks or months after the code is 'done' is much more difficult/frustrating.

-Will

[ZedNova]

The only bug I've encountered is the launch clamps which like to chase me to the moon.

And that's because i have a couple of mods installed.

[Rage097]

Of course .20 is buggy. they'll fix the bugs soon. but would you've rather waited another let's say...four days for .20 to come out?

[Torham234]

I don't see the point here. We are lucky to have access to the Alpha version anyway. As far as I am concerned we are all beta testers (or indeed alpha testers).

[NeoMorph]

This is an alien race so perhaps they have rodents instead of bugs... maybe they don't have bugs on their planet so this program can be said to be bug free.

Now those rodents however lol...

[lazarus1024]

Sorry, but you seem to forget, that there are better ways of testing this game than putting entire savegame files at risk like adding an opt-in experimental download.

Okay, make a copy of your save before loading up any new version of KSP. Problem solved.

I generally make a backup of my save about every week just in case I accidently screw the pooch in some enormous way.

SQUAD generally seems pretty good at doing a follow on release within a couple of weeks of each release squashing the larger bugs that are discovered with the main release.

[lyndonguitar]

The point is: We're facing this setback due to lackluster testing

HELLO

"The alpha phase of the release life cycle is the first phase to begin software testing (alpha is the first letter of the Greek alphabet, used as the number 1). In this phase, developers generally test the software using white box techniques."

This is a public alpha. the public, which is us, tests the game. then provides feedback to help with the next incoming patches and updates, if there's a very, very critical bug that is preventing majority of the players from playing, they might release a hotfix.

are you saying they should test it more before releasing it to ensure it will be bug-free when WE test it??

If you don't want to be a part of testing or bugs, Uninstall KSP and wait for version 1.0, AND THEN PLAY. If there are bugs like what you are saying, that's the time you complain

Is this the first time you have played a Pre-release state of any game?

There should be better checking of bugs. The mentality of "alpha - bugs are okay" is a bad one. I expect bugs. I do my part and if I need to I will report bugs. However, most of these bug reports would be redundant.

The mentality of "alpha - bugs are okay" is a fact, It's called alpha for a reason, If there was little to no bugs it would be called "GOLD version"

The one issue though I do have is that Squad should have warned people before releasing the patch, if there was any danger of it ruining peoples games.

It was well posted all over the net, forums, facebook, youtube, etc etc. even before it was released, It's your fault you don't look in the news that much. Devs can only do so much when it comes to announcements. and about the compatibility thingy, If you loved your saves and mods it should have come into your mind. I just bought the game one month ago, 300 hours of gameplay already and I already knew that when then next update comes, always assume that everything could break, as the case with many of the video game updates.

Edited May 23, 2013 by lyndonguitar

[whatisthisidonteven]

Of course .20 is buggy. they'll fix the bugs soon. but would you've rather waited another let's say...four days for .20 to come out?

Yes, I rather would have waited a few extra days for these really obvious bugs to be fixed instead of having to wait weeks for the fix.

[whatisthisidonteven]

HELLO

"The alpha phase of the release life cycle is the first phase to begin software testing (alpha is the first letter of the Greek alphabet, used as the number 1). In this phase, developers generally test the software using white box techniques."

This is a public alpha. the public, which is us, tests the game. then provides feedback to help with the next incoming patches and updates, if there's a very, very critical bug that is preventing majority of the players from playing, they might release a hotfix.

are you saying they should test it more before releasing it to ensure it will be bug-free when WE test it??

If you don't want to be a part of testing or bugs, Uninstall KSP and wait for version 1.0, AND THEN PLAY. If there are bugs like what you are saying, that's the time you complain

Is this the first time you have played a Pre-release state of any game?

The mentality of "alpha - bugs are okay" is a fact, It's called alpha for a reason, If there was little to no bugs it would be called "GOLD version"

It was well posted all over the net, forums, facebook, youtube, etc etc. even before it was released, It's your fault you don't look in the news that much. Devs can only do so much when it comes to announcements. and about the compatibility thingy, If you loved your saves and mods it should have come into your mind. I just bought the game one month ago, 300 hours of gameplay already and I already knew that when then next update comes, always assume that everything could break, as the case with many of the video game updates.

They have an extensive QA team which is supposed to iron out the major bugs - They totally failed to do that for 0.20.

[AnalogAddict]

I've been playing KSP for a while.

Yeah no reason to get your panties in a wad, the game is Alpha, and under Steam is labeled "Early Access" for a reason. If you don't like .20, go back to .19.1 until they work out some kinks.