[0.20] Modular Fuel System 1.3/realistic fuels, reconfigurable fuel tanks and engines

[SchroedingersHat]

Its Isp with LF/OX is 370. 370*3.84*9.82 = 14000m/s.

Its Isp with LF/LOX is 390. 390*2.69*9.82 = 10300m/s.

Its Isp with H2/LOX is 460. 460*2.19*9.82 = 9890m/s.

..snip...

...is this intended?

I gather the intent is for H2/LOX to be more useful for upper stages. The reduced mass (and improved thrust and therefore fewer engines) of a H2 upper stage makes your first (liquid fuel) stage a lot lighter.

I agree that the H2 tanks are somewhat absurdly heavy, but I also note that all KSP tanks and structural components are. I think my preference for how this is to be resolved would be for the non-cryogenic tanks to have a much higher boil off rate and be similar weight to the other tanks (for LOX) or even somewhat lighter (for H2). Also some kind of cube-squared benefit to larger tanks (you spend a much smaller mass on insulation per-volume on large tanks) would be nice, but as I don't have the skills/motivation to program it myself I can merely suggest it and hope that ialdabaoth implements it.

[Stochasty]

...is this intended?

It's closer to the RL performances of various engines, although in the real world the engines have much better TWR.

Unfortunately, because of scaling issues in KSP, it breaks the game. It takes around 4.5km/s delta-v to achieve LKO in KSP (with FAR, it drops further to ~3.5km/s); it takes closer to 10km/s delta-v to achieve LEO in real life. Delta-v costs for maneuvering around the solar system are also higher by about the same factor of 2.5 for RL versus KSP. Thus, a 10km/s delta-v rocket in KSP is the rough equivalent of a 25km/s rocket in RL, meaning that in KSP with modular fuel tanks it's quite easy to build high-payload SSTOs (without even utilizing air-breathing engines). Adding FAR to the mix, I managed to build a ship theoretically capable of single-stage-to-Eve-landing-and-return (total delta-v expenditures are on the order of 12km/s for such a trip).

Thus, sadly, while this mod adds a lot of interesting realism, once you understand the system it makes the game too easy. I would recommend rescaling the fuel tank mass ratios to put them back closer into line with those in the stock game, even if fuel tanks in the stock game are unrealistically heavy.

[Frederf]

Time scales are also a bit skewed for boil off. Loosing cryo fuels over days and weeks is a panic in real life but most missions in KSP last minutes to hours. It's the ultimate non-factor.

[Vedexent]

Time scales are also a bit skewed for boil off. Loosing cryo fuels over days and weeks is a panic in real life but most missions in KSP last minutes to hours. It's the ultimate non-factor.

Only if you're doing flights within the Kerbin/Mun/Minmus system.

Once you start doing interplanetary flights, that game changes; cryogenic fuel might be a bad choice for 200 days flight to Jool

[Zlatkocam]

Hey everyone run into a serious bug! I'm using 2.02 as well as the latest version for 2.02, The mod was working fine for a long time, though all of a sudden I can no longer change values of the fuel tanks! I press the actions button at the top, click on the fuel tank, the numbers are written there but where i try to rewrite or delete, the line just moves to next number (as if i pressed arrow key). Also something else of note, the Roundified Monopropelent tanks start with 0 fuel in them, though the number '0' is written in green and still I cannot change their values.

If anyone knows a fix Would be greatly appreciated

[Frederf]

I had a bug where the actions part of the VAB stopped responding. I needed to restart KSP. The roundified part has been borked pre 0.21.

[Morrigi]

This mod needs a serious overhaul and rebalance IMO. Just sayin'

[intidragon]

Hey guys. .. I gots a question. I've haven't updated my Modular fuel mod for a while. . . but even though in vacuum my stock nuclear engines guzzle a heck of a lot of fuel as if it were in atmosphere, and if I remember correctly this was a previous bug before, but I don't know if it was the devs of KSP, or . . . dunno.

[AngelLestat]

Sorry accidental double post.

Edited July 29, 2013 by AngelLestat

[AngelLestat]

but even though in vacuum my stock nuclear engines guzzle a heck of a lot of fuel

Is what I was asking, but nobody answer.

I put more details in the question here:

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/31706-0-20-Modular-Fuel-System-1-3-realistic-fuels-reconfigurable-fuel-tanks-and-engines?p=545261&viewfull=1#post545261

Can someone answer us? We are doing something wrong ?

[cardajowol]

I'm seeing a lot of issues with the delta v being worked out from different engines from KW to AIES to Novapunch. I've seen it many times I've had like 2000 delta v and doing just simple 200 delta maneuver is taking up nearly 1000 d/v...

Not sure whether this is mechjeb or this mod..

We have any update on any update to 21.1 ?

[ham]

hi guys,

I made a little config file to be able to modify all RCS tanks and also the new "FL-T100 Fuel Tank".

Remember that you have to assign the RCS for all tanks manually.

Download: http://sdrv.ms/1caqPZQ

Installation: Just put the file in your <KSP>\GameData\ModularFuelTanks folder.

[Spanier]

I think it's MechJeb

[Spanier]

So, what other mods we get compability for 1.4?

B9 and KSPX should be there definitely, and somehow allow Mechjeb to calculate dV and stagetime properly inflight, please

[Chestburster]

MFS Configs V1.5 released! (MFS V1.3)

Currently supported mods: B9, KSPX, Spherical Fuel Tanks, HexCans, RLA, Firespitter, Kethane, KW-Rocketry, NovaPunch2, AIES, Fatman Nuclear Engines and double NERVA, TT Pitch Vector Engine, THHS

Changelog for V1.5:

- added missing stock mini-RCS tank

- added .21 engines and rcs/fuel tanks

- added THHS tank support

Download V1.5

Edited August 23, 2013 by Chestburster
Added .zip archive, updated link

[scottholio]

MFS Configs V1.5 released! (MFS V1.3)

Currently supported mods: B9, KSPX, Spherical Fuel Tanks, HexCans, RLA, Firespitter, Kethane, KW-Rocketry, NovaPunch2, AIES, Fatman Nuclear Engines and double NERVA, TT Pitch Vector Engine, THHS

Changelog for V1.5:

- added missing stock mini-RCS tank

- added .21 engines and rcs/fuel tanks

- added THHS tank support

Download V1.5

Nice. You must spend a lot of time on these configs, so thank you. Would you consider adding these engines LINKY to your already long list?

[Chestburster]

Nice. You must spend a lot of time on these configs, so thank you. Would you consider adding these engines LINKY to your already long list?

Will add them to the list for the next version (which will be for 1.4).

I kinda like ialdabaoth mods, so im creating the configs to give him more time for coding ;-)

[Spanier]

The B9 tanks are bugged, when you add a tank, it counts it volume twice, but it's mass just once, because LH2 and LOX are implemented twice

Edit: Problem solved, I extracted the real fuels folder twice

Edited July 31, 2013 by Spanier

[Spanier]

Xenon is somehow bugged, you can fill 700 Xenon it the stock tank, but only 12.5 in the Oscar-B tank, that has equal size

[p1t1o]

So what is the state of play for this mod?

Will it work for me straight out of the pack?

Been reading through the thread, seems that there have been a few problems but also a lot of fixes.

Are nuclear engines still borked? Ion engines?

Is this mod fit-for-purpose yet? I really like the idea

On another note, has anyone thought about compatibility with MissionController?

I really want it but I dont think I will be installing this unless I know it won't bork my missions...

[Spanier]

Is there a reason, the SABRE Engines from B9 are constantly overheating? They do so even when I add the precooler infront of it

[Chestburster]

So what is the state of play for this mod?

Will it work for me straight out of the pack?

Been reading through the thread, seems that there have been a few problems but also a lot of fixes.

Are nuclear engines still borked? Ion engines?

Is this mod fit-for-purpose yet? I really like the idea

On another note, has anyone thought about compatibility with MissionController?

I really want it but I dont think I will be installing this unless I know it won't bork my missions...

Using it without problems at the moment. It will work out of the pack but i strongly recommend you to install my config files for better mod support (link in my sig) until 1.4 gets released.

I can't say anything about the nuclears since im not realy using them (didn't use them in stock too). Ions should work fine, they didn't get touched.

Compatibility with mods like MissionController or Extraplanetary Launchpads (skykooler isn't responding to me, so i don't know if he will add compatibility or not) is out of our hands. You should aks in the corresponding threads about that.

Edit:

Is there a reason, the SABRE Engines from B9 are constantly overheating? They do so even when I add the precooler infront of it

SABRES should work even better like they did without MFS. 3600 maxTemp and 450 heatProduction for jet and 550 for rocket vs. 1800 maxTemp and 200 heatProduction for jet and 225 for rocket.

The precoolers don't have a function yet. With 1.4 when the heatexchanger get implemented i will add that functionality to them.

Edited July 31, 2013 by Chestburster

[p1t1o]

Is there a reason, the SABRE Engines from B9 are constantly overheating? They do so even when I add the precooler infront of it

The precooler doesn't seem to do anything, I think its just a structural/cosmetic part. They overheat when you put them too close together, thats for sure.

Having said that, I have a spaceplane with three in a row right next to each other (as in touching) and dont overheat until I switch to closed cycle, which can then be managed by throttling back.

EDIT - thanks chestburster

EDIT -

With 1.4 when the heatexchanger get implemented i will add that functionality to them.

Just FYI, that will not be in line with realism.

Also, for me personally, Im not sure if I want, or even need, cooling parts in my KSP.

Edited July 31, 2013 by p1t1o

[malkuth]

Just a heads up I added support for this mods fuels in Mission Controller Expanded.. Still working on values but it won't mess up missions.. Now you will be charged for those new fuels.

[Spanier]

SABRES should work even better like they did without MFS. 3600 maxTemp and 450 heatProduction for jet and 550 for rocket vs. 1800 maxTemp and 200 heatProduction for jet and 225 for rocket.

The precoolers don't have a function yet. With 1.4 when the heatexchanger get implemented i will add that functionality to them.

On airbreathing mode it get's throttled back to 90-95% and as soon as a pump in my internal oxygen it drops to ~60%. BTW I'm using MechJeb for throttle control.