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[0.20] Deadly Reentry 2.3 - reentry heat, plus thermal and g-force damage to parts

ialdabaoth

By ialdabaoth
in KSP1 Mod Releases

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ialdabaoth

ialdabaoth

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You reincluded the heat shield parts, you fixed the MM/B9 Bug...

There is only one thing left which prevents me from getting this mod (I loved v1.3):

The fact that all stock parts get 50% heat tolerance makes all mod parts overpowered considering heat resistance.

I think it would have been a better idea to simply double the maximum heat caused by the atmosphere at all velocities and leave the maxheat values of all parts as is. That way, all modded parts won't seem out of place in the light of this great mod.

The mod comes with a ModuleManager cfg override that fixes the heat for KW, B9, and KSPX.

I can't really just double heat, because there are specific thermal effects that happen at specific real temperatures (i.e., the transition from white to red reentry F/X needs to happen at 525C for physics reasons).

Heat is actually applied based on an approximation of a real-world algorithm; it doesn't feel right to just arbitrarily double that simply because Squad has no concept of scale. ;)

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Guest

Guest

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What if you made one heat "unit" in KSP equal 0.5K? Or assume the temperature values are all in degrees Fahrenheit (or Rankine, if you want an absolute scale), that'd give Squad parts much more reasonable heat tolerances.

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Lexif

Lexif

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Issue report: Bobcat's 6.25m Inflatable Heatshield has mass = 0.2 only and no ablator!

I think that's by design, an inflatable heat shield wouldn't be ablative, I think. If you overheat it it's gone, but it's lighter than the equivalent ablative heat shield.

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rifter

rifter

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@PDCWolf

Yeah, the same happens for me (strangely low temperatures on the leading edge). I found out, however, that all the heat not in those parts had found it's way to the other end of the rocket (engine facing retrograde on re-entry, so the top of the rocket). Also, even with infinite fuel, I can't make it back down the surface, since the heat doesn't seem to dissipate once the rocket is below a certain height (somewhere in the 30km range). Explosions from overheating and cumulative heat damage make up most of the rest of the flight. In the end, only a few (very hot) pieces crash into the surface, regardless of how slow the rocket re-enters.

Reverting to 2.2 (from 2.2a) makes everything play nice again

Edited by rifter
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DuckZero

DuckZero

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I can't really just double heat, because there are specific thermal effects that happen at specific real temperatures (i.e., the transition from white to red reentry F/X needs to happen at 525C for physics reasons).

Heat is actually applied based on an approximation of a real-world algorithm; it doesn't feel right to just arbitrarily double that simply because Squad has no concept of scale. ;)

Considering there are at least 4 reasonably commonly used temperature scales used by humans (celsius, fahrenheit, kelvin, rankine) I don't see any reason why kerbals in their fictional universe should use celsius.

The physics should be the same, by all means, but physics is independent of units.

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Black-Talon

Black-Talon

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Thank you, everyone, for your help testing! I have confirmed that 2.2a is, in fact, buggy as all hell.

I think this should fix it. I hope.

DRE2.2 RC3

Thrilled to see the GameData folder included in the .zip - that helps me be sure I'm installing it correctly, thank you!

FWIW, I do agree about the temperature scale concerns. Once again I greatly appreciate the realism but the need to modify all my parts (while greatly improved with your work on module manager) to maintain the awesomeness of this mod is tough.

Another idea I had that might make this easier to cover both cases... I'd love if the temp limit was actually displayed in the right-click context menu during flight. That way I could see both the current temp and the max for that part. Now... what if the units displayed there were actually Celsius as you and real-life desire BUT meanwhile all the parts temps listed in the config files were considered Kerbal Degrees and converted to Celsius on the fly as suggested by others? Now you'd get best of both...display of real life temps but no need to modify every new part other modders create. win-win-win!

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ialdabaoth

ialdabaoth

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Thrilled to see the GameData folder included in the .zip - that helps me be sure I'm installing it correctly, thank you!

FWIW, I do agree about the temperature scale concerns. Once again I greatly appreciate the realism but the need to modify all my parts (while greatly improved with your work on module manager) to maintain the awesomeness of this mod is tough.

Another idea I had that might make this easier to cover both cases... I'd love if the temp limit was actually displayed in the right-click context menu during flight. That way I could see both the current temp and the max for that part. Now... what if the units displayed there were actually Celsius as you and real-life desire BUT meanwhile all the parts temps listed in the config files were considered Kerbal Degrees and converted to Celsius on the fly as suggested by others? Now you'd get best of both...display of real life temps but no need to modify every new part other modders create. win-win-win!

Here's the problems with this:

1. Kerbal Degrees *are* in Celcius. This is provable when you look at the emissive textures for engines. As an engine heats up, it begins to glow - the glow begins at 525 degrees, which is exactly the temperature in Celcius that a black-body begins emitting visible light. So, we have one point at which the temperature scale correlates precisely with Celsius.

Then, we look at the ambient air temperature on Kerbin's surface, which is somewhere below 30 but above 0 - which gives us another point at which the temperature scale correlates precisely with Celsius.

Now we have two points on a line, so that line is locked in place - and we're stuck with Celcius.

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ialdabaoth

ialdabaoth

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Im sorry to say this, but the FPS drop at high G is still there :-/

gah, can you confirm that the debug log is saying the same thing? paste the last few blocks of lines from your debug log when it happens.

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ialdabaoth

ialdabaoth

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Well, my log wont output anything when it happens.

Screen when its happening:

dwps.th.png

Screen when its done ripping the plane appart (about 10 secs after the first screen):

4yv.th.png

AHA! I know what's happening! Posting a new version that should fix this.

ALSO: The new version now has two lines in teh config file:


	ridiculousMaxTemp = 2500 
	maxTempScale = 0.5

This is so that parts that come from other mods with absurd temperature tolerances get adjusted to reasonable numbers.

Any part with a maxTemp > ridiculousMaxTemp has its maxTemp halved; if it contains a ModuleEngine, its heat production is also halved. Then, if it's still > ridiculousMaxTemp, it gets capped at ridiculousMaxTemp.

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nothke

nothke

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I just deorbited the entire station (4-5 modules big) with a lot of parts, in a quite steep angle at RAD angle (more-less normal to the trajectory).. And nothing exploded! Only panels got torn off.. I am sure the mod is installed cause it shows the temp on every part..

jJ2srWGl.jpg

z6uBhUhl.jpg

It just crashed into the ground in one piece.. In the old days* none of the parts would survive

*the old 0.19 deadly reentry

Edited by nothke
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Guest

Guest

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Yeah, the reentry could stand to be a bit more deadly. This is most likely something that could be done with the mode config, but I have no idea on how to best do it.

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ZobrAA

ZobrAA

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Any part with a maxTemp > ridiculousMaxTemp has its maxTemp halved; if it contains a ModuleEngine, its heat production is also halved. Then, if it's still > ridiculousMaxTemp, it gets capped at ridiculousMaxTemp.

ANY part? What about heatshields? Some of them has 10000 and even 24000, 32000...

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taniwha

taniwha

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AFAIK, there isn't a substance that will remain solid at 10000 degrees, let alone 24000 or 32000. Heck, that's getting close to plasma, I think. Any heat-shields that bogus need to be either ditched or redesigned (eg, made reflective and ablative). They were designed for a broken heating system.

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WedgeJAntilles

WedgeJAntilles

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This is so that parts that come from other mods with absurd temperature tolerances get adjusted to reasonable numbers.

Any part with a maxTemp > ridiculousMaxTemp has its maxTemp halved; if it contains a ModuleEngine, its heat production is also halved. Then, if it's still > ridiculousMaxTemp, it gets capped at ridiculousMaxTemp.

Awesome work! I'm really glad you found a mod-independent way to enforce this--I think a lot of why DR seemed too easy to me was that I use a lot of part packs that have ridiculous heat tolerances.

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