[PLUGIN, PARTS, Development] [0.20+][0.21+] tek Industries Science v0.4.1

[Scotius]

If i understood devs comments correctly, specialists would be able to perform actions defined by player - in a way similiar to what MechJeb does now. For example you would set a maneuver node, and a pilot onboard would perform all the burns and maneuvers. So experianced pilot could do his job faster, with less monopropellant uses etc. That is just my conjecture though. I'm waiting for more info too, and letting my imagination run wild in the meantime

[tek_604]

Is anyone having any trouble using MJ 2.0.8.x, having HyperEdit'd a craft to orbit? I've asked on the official MJ thread, but thought I'd ask here also.

I can't get MJ to do a damn thing having HE'd something today, and I'd rather not have to launch complete missions just to test if some code is working.

So, development for the day has stopped until I can work out why I can't get MJ to rendezvous correctly.

OK, just confirmed. HE'ing to Kerbin orbit, MJ works fine. But, not if you HE directly to the Mun from the pad.

bah. Got it to work that time, still not sure how. Back to the coding then

Edited June 30, 2013 by tek_604
It's not my mod. It's probably HyperEdit, and its annoying as hell

[John Nowak]

If i understood devs comments correctly, specialists would be able to perform actions defined by player - in a way similiar to what MechJeb does now. For example you would set a maneuver node, and a pilot onboard would perform all the burns and maneuvers. So experianced pilot could do his job faster, with less monopropellant uses etc. That is just my conjecture though. I'm waiting for more info too, and letting my imagination run wild in the meantime

That's very interesting! I'm a bit of a purist myself, but I think "automatically execute maneuver node" is a very reasonable bit of automation. It sounds like a nice way to handle it.

Now that I think of it, I recall one shooter style game that did have "gun skill" for each character: your crosshairs shook, and lower skill characters made it jump more. So potentially low-skilled characters can affect gameplay of non-abstracted events by making the task harder to execute.

[Azivegu]

I am having a probablem with this mod. I sent a manned ship with the manned rock sample return unit onboard to the Mün and I turned it on, but it wont collect anything. Is it possible that I am using it wrong or is it a bug???

[Scotius]

I've sent a probe and science capsule to the Mun, and they both worked fine. So probably you are doing something wrong.

[tek_604]

I am having a probablem with this mod. I sent a manned ship with the manned rock sample return unit onboard to the Mün and I turned it on, but it wont collect anything. Is it possible that I am using it wrong or is it a bug???

Does the status bar say anything? What buttons do you get? Are you reusing the module? Enough electicity?

[Azivegu]

Does the status bar say anything? What buttons do you get? Are you reusing the module? Enough electicity?

Everything seems to be working fine. It gives me an on/off button, it drains electricity and I even let it work for an hour straight, but nothing accumulated. How long should it take before I have 1 unit? (and this was on a first mission of a new ksp file. Tested other mods and they seem to be working alright.

[tek_604]

Everything seems to be working fine. It gives me an on/off button, it drains electricity and I even let it work for an hour straight, but nothing accumulated. How long should it take before I have 1 unit? (and this was on a first mission of a new ksp file. Tested other mods and they seem to be working alright.

You should see the status change to "Collecting samples...", the Sample Origin change to "Mun"; looking at the resources bars, you should see Rock filling straight away with -1.00 as the value, and draining the battery at 8.00 (assuming no charging from solar panels of course).

[Azivegu]

You should see the status change to "Collecting samples...", the Sample Origin change to "Mun"; looking at the resources bars, you should see Rock filling straight away with -1.00 as the value, and draining the battery at 8.00 (assuming no charging from solar panels of course).

I see all of that (besides the filling of the rock obviously) except the sample origin does not change to Mun. Is it possible that it has to be a certain distance above the ground? because it is on top of a FL-T200 fuel tank and the small little engine (cant remember name, but it wasn't radial) for underneath it. for the rest it is working a-ok, but the rock collection is fairly important. I'll try to get a picture, but I canceled the mission so I'll have to do it again.

[Scotius]

Do you have cylindrical sampler, small cube sampler or science capsule mixed on your ship? I found it hard way that multiple parts don't cooperate well. They share sample count, but when you analyse with one part samples get drained from the pool. In effect other parts have to gather samples again from the scratch.

[Azivegu]

no, I just had the one piece. I am meaning to redoing the mission, but I have been to busy today. Hopefully I'll have some pictures tomorrow.

[tek_604]

I see all of that (besides the filling of the rock obviously) except the sample origin does not change to Mun. Is it possible that it has to be a certain distance above the ground? because it is on top of a FL-T200 fuel tank and the small little engine (cant remember name, but it wasn't radial) for underneath it. for the rest it is working a-ok, but the rock collection is fairly important. I'll try to get a picture, but I canceled the mission so I'll have to do it again.

All that needs to be done is that the vessel must have landed on the surface. The height doesn't matter (its not checked, only the vessel's landed status). A screenshot would be useful, but, if the problem happens again, please post your persistent file (somewhere like dropbox or some other file sharing site), so that I may check the variables statuses, and try to reproduce the problem.

Do you have cylindrical sampler, small cube sampler or science capsule mixed on your ship? I found it hard way that multiple parts don't cooperate well. They share sample count, but when you analyse with one part samples get drained from the pool. In effect other parts have to gather samples again from the scratch.

Sadly, as far as I can work out, I cannot change this behaviour. I was well aware of it of course, having tested it myself, and thinking "man, that looks ugly". But, you've probably worked out that resources are shared amongst the vessels various parts. You can even fill a different module from another module; it is down to KSP where the resource goes when you start collecting it.

[tek_604]

It's the weekend again, so time for another development update.

No progress was made since last weekend. Real life getting in the way.

But, this weekend, I am feeling motivated, and I will get the Orbital Laboratory finished this weekend. Hopefully today, if it goes well (which so far, it has). So be prepared for 0.4.0 to come soon.

With the Orbital Lab, it will mean we have parts for:

* In orbit analysis

* On surface, manned & unmanned analysis

* Sample return to Kerbin

In my opinion, this is enough parts for now. The only part missing, would be the spare parts for the lab, but we're still discussing how this might be done. I personally prefer an automated module (akin to the Progress supply ships), and with Kerbals on board, they would refurbish the lab automatically on docking. Some want some form of EVA to be performed, which is also kinda cool. We're still thinking about it. Maybe both ways should be made available, which is the more than likely solution. Why force anyone to play one way or the other?

The next thing I really want to do, is update the parts being used. I've still got the parts I mentioned last week to look at, and I hope we will have some nice looking parts (and maybe IVAs) coming soon. I can tell you, from what I've seen so far, the parts look very cool, thanks to the hard work being done by King Jareth.

[Scotius]

That's good news Science Hitchhiker with cool IVA would be an instant hit.

I did some pondering over sampling missions, and i came with an idea. Instead of messing with coordinates, why not use Kethane's new feature? It generates gas/ore deposits from the 'seed' and entire hex counts as deposit area. So: what about making new resource called "minerals" and set 'seed' to generate only 10 single hexes randomly spread over the planet's surface. Every hex contains only 10 units of samples, so you can analyse each spot only once - after it's drained it disappears from the map view. Now for missions: 'easy mode' would require to analyse (or return if you use a probe) 1-3 hexes. 'Normal mode' 4-6 places. And in 'hard mode' you would have to visit all 10 hexes. Though maybe not in one go - for our nerves sake Hmm, it occured to me that for the same reason would be better to generate some more 'sample hexes'. Just in case couple of them spawns in unreachable areas. Generally it should not matter if you are analysing rock, gas or liquid in each hex, so it could be used for any body in system. Though one thing i'm worried about is Eve's and Laythe's oceans. Reaching middle of the sea to sample one, final hex could be hard and tedious if someone doesn't use hydroplane or some kind of boat. I wonder if it's possible to force deposits to appear only on the land?

So, what do you guys think?

Edited July 7, 2013 by Scotius
Avoiding double posting.

[tek_604]

Version 0.4.0 has been released!

This version introduces the Orbital Laboratory! In order to use it, put it in orbit, make sure it is crewed, and dock a "Sample Return" package, containing 100 units of resource. Upon docking, the laboratory will be able to analyse the available sample. The laboratory has 10 ovens at present, and even when all ovens are used, the lab can be used again... if spare parts become available. (unlike other parts in the mod, it doesn't "Complete Mission")

I also took the decision to simplify the analysis procedure. As soon as the "Analyse Sample" button is pressed, the analysis cannot be stopped. This makes it easier for me (codewise), and for you as players. It also made no sense to stop an analysis as soon as it was underway. Science must be completed, its a high priority mission requirement!

I also fixed a couple of bugs in the Manned Sample Analysis capsule. I have a feeling this is what Azivegu was reporting previously. If you try to collect a sample, in an incorrect state (either on Kerbin, or while still flight in a vacuum), all the collect resource buttons remain available. Looks a bit ugly (with the slight flashing), so I might revisit this in the future.

I did not test backwards compatibility, but I didn't change any existing parts, so it should be good. If you find anything that breaks current saves, please post them here.

As I said before, I feel we have enough parts (except for the spare parts module, I might do this next, it shouldn't take long), and updated models/textures should be coming soon.

So, what next? I'd perhaps like to start implementing something as a "backend". For example, Science Points tracking, with a GUI so you can see what you've been doing.

As always, ideas are welcome!

[King Jareth]

I'm in the middle of texturing some new sample collection parts right now.

The rock drilling arm you've seen before but also an Atmosphere sample collector taking some inspiration from weather stations (the round bits will be fans once they get textured)

and a liquid sampler which is kinda like a water farm from Dune

Both parts animate packing away/deploying for easy transit to whichever corner of the kerbalverse you choose to take them to.

I've started messing about with an IVA for the Orbital Lab bit I cant take a pic of it that makes sense in a still image so you'll have to wait till I get some in-game shots.

A quick question though.

I had an idea where the Kerbals wouldn't be in seats but instead floating about. I think I could then make a looped animation where they kind of bob about..the thing is they'll still do it in gravity which will look pretty silly. So would people rather have a cooler looking IVA that didn't make sense some of the time or have the Kerbals sat in chairs?

[Scotius]

Ugh, that's a hard choice. Common sense or awesomeness? Hah, let's go kerbal all the way Let 'em float, i say.

[tek_604]

A quick question though.

I had an idea where the Kerbals wouldn't be in seats but instead floating about. I think I could then make a looped animation where they kind of bob about..the thing is they'll still do it in gravity which will look pretty silly. So would people rather have a cooler looking IVA that didn't make sense some of the time or have the Kerbals sat in chairs?

Ugh, that's a hard choice. Common sense or awesomeness? Hah, let's go kerbal all the way Let 'em float, i say.

I hate to be the party pooper on this one, but... I've always been a Star Trek fan, and I would rather see them sitting at a kind of "science station", rather than randomly bobbing about.

Now, don't get me wrong, I do love the idea of seeing them bobbing about, but, as an additional note, how would this work from one of the Kerbals POV? You'd see the other crew member bobbing about, or, if only one is in the pod, then his view should be bobbing about.

[King Jareth]

I've not tried it yet but I think your view is linked to the position of the Kerbal location so your view would bob as well. I'm not sure how vomit inducing that could be.

It also had the ulterior motive of me not having to figure out how big kerbal seats had to be

Edited July 7, 2013 by King Jareth

[Scotius]

Ouch. I did not think about constant bobbing and swaying. As for Kerbal size, i think sumghai did some calculations in his FusTek inspired station parts mod thread.

[King Jareth]

Yeah I've used some of his dimensions to figure out how much space i've got to play with but it wont help me much for sizing an actual seat. With the .20 part tools I can load (in unity) Squads internal spaces though so I can use that to get a good idea.

[Scotius]

Kerbals are roughly 1 meter high. So allocate one cubic meter for one - should be enough for Kerbal and his seat.

[tek_604]

Well, yesterday, I got around to playing with a KAS test, and thought it was damn cool! Then I had an idea... How about a "Surface Science Package"; something which would require an EVA, take the package from the outside, and then place it on the ground. OK, maybe a bit like flag planting, but gives you that little Apollo-like feeling.

[King Jareth]

Well, yesterday, I got around to playing with a KAS test, and thought it was damn cool! Then I had an idea... How about a "Surface Science Package"; something which would require an EVA, take the package from the outside, and then place it on the ground. OK, maybe a bit like flag planting, but gives you that little Apollo-like feeling.

You know I'm happy to have anything that utilises more EVAs.

I did some pondering over sampling missions, and i came with an idea

(stuff)

So, what do you guys think?

I meant to reply to this before but was on my phone.....then forgot.

I like the idea of having to collect samples at spacific locations, our Mars landers dont drop out of the sky any old place and start digging up the ground (or atleast thats what were lead to believe ) and I think it could make science landings into far more of a callenging thing to do. The idea of scanning a planets surface for Kerbal scientists to find locations they want samples from then you have to engineer a solution to achieve it sounds interesting to me.

But I'm just a hobbyist vertex-jockey and know nothing at all of that mysitical code voodoo and how much work this would slam at Teks feet (probably more than I'd think) without basically abandoning whats already been made and making it a mod of a mod if that makes sense.

[tek_604]

I know Kethane mod integration is on the list of things to do, but, I am not so keen on wanting to force anyone using this mod to have the Kethane mod installed. But, thinking about it now, we could have...

1) Core mod - requires no other mods (this is where we are now of course)

2) Additional modules:

a) KAS extensions - for EVA "stuff" (sorry for the technological terminology, let me know if its too complex )

Kethane extensions - for introducing targeted science

c) RemoteTech extensions - for those crazy enough to make comms neccessary

d) MissionController extensions - mission pack & integration

Installation would be a breeze, as you'd firstly need the core, and whatever additions you fancy. hmm... not a bad idea if I say myself

I'd need to spend some time looking at how to do this. To be honest, with most of the core code already done (I need to do something with the analysis code, cause at the moment, it is badly done -- duplicate code, always a bad idea!), I'll need something to do as the projects codemonkey.

The question therefore is, what would be the next thing I should look at? I mean extensions-wise. Kethane or KAS?