Is it bad to use KSP mods?

[Voidryder]

My goal is to mod it more than I did Skyrim... and I have 65+ mods active there

I accept your challenge Sir. The Race is on!!! Wait...what was this thread about?

[OrbitusII]

Using mods is the choice of the user or the creator of a challenge if you choose to do it. In the case of the latter, it's temporary until you complete the challenge, then you can go back to the mods you were using before. You can take recommendations for mods to use, and if you're a YouTuber/livestreamer, then you set the rules and people can suggest mods to use following those rules. Cheating doesn't exist in a single player sandbox except as self-imposed limitations.

[rodion_herrera]

YOU CANNOT CHEAT IN A SINGLE PLAYER GAME, NO MATTER WHAT YOU'LL DO. YOU ARE IN CHARGE ON EVERYTHING, AND YOU CAN DO EVERYTHING WHAT YOU WANT.

I slightly disagree with this statement. Years ago (and I mean YEARS ago hehe) while playing some role-playing games and some combat flight simulations with a career mode in them, I discovered Symantec's "The Norton Utilities" and with it, a HEX EDITOR. It's a powerful thing, the ability to edit hex data...one minute your pilot is dead, the next minute he's back in the barracks as if nothing happened. Was I happy? You bet. But in the long run, ending my campaign didn't feel as satisfying as when I finished it without Hex-editing my savegames. So I wasn't cheating anyone else--I was cheating on myself, and sometimes the guilt-effect of that can be as bad as cheating in a multiplayer game, or maybe even worse.

But going back on topic, no, you're not cheating when you use mods in KSP because in the first place, there is no "career" that you're trying to gain advantage from by adding mods. KSP is on sandbox mode and that's the primary reason why anything you add to it can't be considered as cheating.

Additionally, MechJeb is a wonderful self-teaching tool--by using it, you actually learn the optimal ascent profile from a planet or moon, how to burn an eject properly, or how to land properly. It's like having a virtual Rod Machado (he's a famous flight instructor) beside you when you fly KSP.

Edited June 4, 2013 by rodion_herrera

[Benno]

It's a fair enough question OP. I think the simple answer is "No, it's not cheating". There are many games where use of mods is generally a little frowned upon or considered cheating, but a poke around the forums will likely convince you that this isn't one of them. Indeed, moreso than most other games, KSP is actually designed for modding. The developers have gone to quite a bit of effort to support mods. Also, as it's not finished at the moment and clearly a little simplified compared to what the final vision will be, and it's in a sandbox state with no particular goals built in, I think that the use of mods is particularly appropriate in this case.

I always avoid mods initially, as I like to know what the vanilla game is like. But, mods can add an enourmous amount of flavour and depth to a game. They are also addictive (you'll start with one, and start to question yourself a bit after 20....), and will inevitably cause you some headaches, particularly when updates to the core game come out or when something unexpected happens. As other have mentioned though, mods can also ruin a game for you.

My advice would be to have a good go at the vanilla game first. Then, once you're getting a little frustrated or bored, try installing a mod that will add some challenge or variety (like a parts pack, comms systems, oxygen requirements, or resource mining). Avoid the likes of MechJeb, that automate difficult tasks and make the game easier. Those mods have their place (e.g. to speed up testing of a difficult rocket design, or to give you an understanding of the general way to go about a launch procedure or landing), but if you use them too much early on you'll miss out on some of the sheer joy and sense of achievement that KSP has to offer, and that really is quite unique. The first time you achieve orbit, the first time you do a 3km flyby of the Mun, or land on another planet.... Those are moments when you sit back and feel proud of what you accomplished.

A friend of mine came over for dinner and to have a look at KSP and get pointers from me for getting to the mun (my most recent achievement at the time). I had a ship fueled up and waiting in orbit, and we decided hey, Duna isn't THAT much further.... ended up staying up until 3am in the morning. We really felt like the two of us were tucked away in a dark tin can in the loneliness of deep space, making some educated guesses on burns, timing, direction etc, a million miles from home, all the while wondering if we'd just done something that would get us killed or leave us adrift in space for eternity. Eventually we made it after a very near miss with Duna's moon and barely a few drops of fuel left (Duna orbit that is, landing was a complete fiery failure), and what a sense of accomplishment in the face of adversity. You really feel like you could of been there with the astronauts on the way to the Moon.

You won't get that if a mod flies you all the way there hands free.

[Motokid600]

I just downloaded the B9 pack. Haven't tried it yet though. Is it really considered a cheat mod?

[Canopus]

I just downloaded the B9 pack. Haven't tried it yet though. Is it really considered a cheat mod?

No it isn't.

[Dolkramp]

Cheat- verb (used with object)

1. to defraud; swindle

- verb (used without object)

2. to practice deceit

3. to violate rules

- noun

4. person who cheats

5. fraud

A single player game with no rules. Doesn't seem to line up with any of the above. I suppose if you were bragging about doing one of rhe forum challenges that stipulates 'no mods' would fit. My question is why do you care what anyone would say about how you play youe game?

[willow]

I have the feeling there's a fair amount of trolling in this topic But it's still a fair subject and most people have fair opinions.

I personally am building spaceships that require about 10 refueling missions, monsters. If I had to do them by hand I'd be bored out of my skull before long. Now I program mechjeb, activate it, and let the computer run while I go do the dishes and occasionally check up on progress. Then when the big ship is full I sit down and have myself an adventure. Those big ships occasionally require 5 minute burns, I'm not sitting behind my computer all that time either... I could easily do all those things by hand, I have done them before, I have the skill and knowledge. But I'm really not interested in spending the time.

I have built a part in the past that would generate free fuel in orbit so I'd only have to dock to a refuelling station to tank up. Like I said, the point for me is adventure, refuelling missions are really menial jobs. I hope at some point the vanilla game allows us to automate certain missions. The outcome would be the same.

A game like KSP is about mastery. Discovering how to do things and then find better ways to do those things. For me personally, doing routine jobs that I know I can do because I did them hundreds of time with and without mechjeb, does not entertain me. If I wanted a grind I'd play an MMO...

[kahlzun]

I play with a limited collection of mods that add things I feel the game needs, or which open interesting possibilities, like the 'airship' mod which adds blimps, or the ISA Mapsat mod, which allows you to 'map' other planets.

[joppiesaus]

This is just a opinion.

To me, modding is not cheating. Some consider mechJeb as cheating, because auto-land, auto-dock, and that stuff. But it is just a opinion. Cause you still must build and fly your own stuff.

[Richy teh space man]

Mods are good, they add a lot of potential to the game. In fact, if mods were bad would some of the mod makers have been hired?

[rodion_herrera]

This is kinda like airsoft (who among you plays it?). Unlike paintball, airsoft pellets are non-marking, thus there's a degree of "honesty" and cooperation involved, if a group of guys want to play a game of "war" or "cops and robbers" using airsoft guns. You basically have to be honest if you felt pellets hit you, and you actually shout "HIT!" so that your opponent(s) stops shooting! LOL So cheating in airsoft will only be defined by the local rules you and your friends created (i.e. in KSP, analogous to a "challenge" or a roleplay that you and some KSPers decide to do).

[Pontiac]

To the OP... Its your game... your computer... why would you care what others think?

I certainly don't care anyone knows I use MechJeb on every flight, auto-land every time, auto-launch, auto-dock.... Its my game. Period. If anyone has a problem, they can go chew on their soother in the corner with their little doll.

[Scrogdog]

Like they say, it's your game!

In fact, the save that I'm probably having the most fun in at the moment mixes different rules! My ground-based vehicle recovery forces are completely science fiction for the most part. My space forces are completely stock, however. I even build those vehicles in a separate base installation and then transfer the craft files over just to make sure.

However, again a personal opinion, even my stock builds are aided by Engineer Redux mod. Considering such mod tools 'cheating' would be like saying that scientists and engineers should not use models, wind tunnels and other simulations in their work.

Edited June 4, 2013 by Scrogdog

[CleverClothe]

No one should dictate you what or what not to use, and everything would merely serve as a guide. YOU CANNOT CHEAT IN A SINGLE PLAYER GAME, NO MATTER WHAT YOU'LL DO. YOU ARE IN CHARGE ON EVERYTHING, AND YOU CAN DO EVERYTHING WHAT YOU WANT.

This seems to be a relatively common delusion around here. You can cheat at any game or any contest. The real question is, does it matter?

[BaneOfPilots]

It's singleplayer and it's a game. It's supposed to be fun, so use whatever mods you want. I DO use MechJeb just because I suck/ am too lazy to make perfect orbits myself.

[Drunkrobot]

The game is still in early development, so content that will eventually be stock anyway, like Kerbal engineer, or subassembly loader are fine. Hell, it is a sandbox game, so you should do whatever you want. When career mode comes around, then it may be a little cheaty to use mechjeb, or OP parts.

[Good_Apollo]

There is no 'cheating' in a sandbox game. There's no rules.

Personally, and no offense to Squad, I can't play the vanilla game. I've become too spoiled with the realistic addon packs and the wonderfully useful Mechjeb. I haven't gotten too crazy with the other stuff like Kethane and the like, the mods that really change the game, but the mod community KSP has is awesome and I'm thankful. Calling mod use 'cheating' or decrying the use of addons is foolish. Play how you want to play.

Personally I'll never play Career Mode. I never saw the point in shoehorning gameplay when you have a sandbox alternative, but to each his own.

[AlternNocturn]

No. In fact I'm about to load my game up with updated mods. Brb.

[1of6Billion]

Mods rock! Period.

Mods that have a foothold in reality are absolutely fine by me. But I also don't mind using Hyperedit to build an impossibly large base on Mun or test a lander on Eve.

[CozmikR5]

You vanilla-loving purists realise that you have to thank mod makers for a lot of the content found in-game, right?

[xclusiv8]

-image snipped-

Edited June 5, 2013 by KasperVld

[NeoMorph]

This seems to be a relatively common delusion around here. You can cheat at any game or any contest. The real question is, does it matter?

It's not a delusion... When you play a game like Call of Duty for example you can choose which difficulty you want to play it on. Selecting "Easy Mode" isn't cheating. Same with KSP. Altering it is just like choosing easy mode in COD. It's not cheating, it's just altering the difficulty.

In fact, most of the purists are missing out on some amazing things that are capable in this single player sandbox. Some mods are cheating but most aren't. If I come across a mod that makes it TOO easy I just personally nerf them or get rid of them.

For example the MEM lander. OMG is the engine on that overpowered and too high a fuel capacity. It's just toooooooooooooooooo easy to land that thing. Forget the second stage, just land it on Kerbin and then take it to the mun in one jump. That part is going byebye because it's crazy.

[Lumaro]

I use mods in almost every game I play, but is it considered cheating in KSP if I use the B9 pack, or KW pack? I see what the people in the spacecraft exchange can do, and am I bad?

As long as they are not overpowered compared to the stock parts. For example, if you had a fuel tank mod. The fuel to weight ratio should be the same, or under the current parts. As for plug-in based parts like KAS, If you think that they are fun or "Should be a default thing" then use them.

Mods that I recommend are B9 aerospace pack(The one you mentioned obviously) , Kerbal attachment system, Kerbal Crew Manifest, and Kethane(The mod hasn't been officially updated for 0.20, but you can find some forum users that have put together a decent patch for now.).

[asmi]

What's interesting is vast majority of "purists" aka "stock-only" players haven't actually tried using mods. How do I know that - I was "purist" before I've tried mods, and now I can't play without some of them (first and foremost, FAR). I even have some mods that I've done myself