[0.22] Extraplanetary Launchpads Legacy Thread

[pasty2k2]

Woohoo, done it, though I had to start building the thing over from scratch - if anyone is interested this one can get to Laythe and land safely, its better balanced etc. Has all the needed separate parts, atmo mining and Kethane mining/lots of storage, 14 kerbals. It uses the same mods I mentioned in my previous post.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/4svv2acsmd2ouiq/SuperPad%20mk2.craft

(press 0 to kill jets when MJ starts to throttle back to prevent flameout, then manual stage when most rockets are dead. When in orbit disable intake management or later aerobraking will go wrong. Check out other action groups too)

Mod is so much fun. Next plan is to make the same thing but with the launchpad on the bottom, then when landed the rest of the ship disconnects, rovers itself off the pad, and reconnects at a side docking port letting me get new modules/rovers made on the surface from the pad easier.

I like the idea of seeing the ore processing take place, if some crazy model could be made up for it, some sort of conveyor system moving everything along through the various stages from ore to metal to parts. It would only need to be small-scale as rocket parts don't take that long to manufacture, especially if it would all be done on-site as it is here. The mining/processing speed and efficiency could then be affected through different grade processing parts, like Kethane has with Medium and Heavy converters, etc. At the same time, building the rocket in place could take a certain amount of time, and then need to be manually fueled/balanced. All that of course, depends how difficult it is to do...

Edited July 1, 2013 by pasty2k2

[KhaosCorp]

My first Laythe Launchpad base fell over......

Im actually waiting to redo it till Magic Smoke/IR makes new release this week. Then I can make my Laythe pad level on any terrain.

[pasty2k2]

Aye I've happened to land, stably, but on a slant. I tried to move ~700 metres to a plain, it was impossible to land without chutes again, and the launchpad doesn't seem to like kerbals walking on it, rigormortis sets in :S Oh well

[Boamere]

Anyone know why I cant see the ship selection menu when i click select ship?

[Mishkin_007]

Has anyone successfully mined ore since the kethane .7 update? I'm detecting deposits fine in laythe orbit with the hex map but there's nothing to mine down on the surface nor does it detect the ore...

[Railgunner2160]

I have, it works with the runway.....

[Benie]

Skykooler, are you 100% sure I can't have an orbital space station above, say Duna, and be able to launch ships from it? It absolutely has to be on the surface?

[fractl]

Skykooler, are you 100% sure I can't have an orbital space station above, say Duna, and be able to launch ships from it? It absolutely has to be on the surface?

That is correct. Use evilC's Orbital Construction Redux for orbital spacedocks.

[skykooler]

Skykooler, are you 100% sure I can't have an orbital space station above, say Duna, and be able to launch ships from it? It absolutely has to be on the surface?

Yes, I am sure. Please see the explanations in the last ten pages of this thread and the development thread for the reasons why.

[fractl]

Sure, its here:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/g0r1wxnzg570u2p/SuperPad.craft

It uses a LOT of mods... to name a few I know of:

Mechjeb 2.0.8

KW Rocketry

Bobcat HOME 1.0.3

Kethane 0.6.1

B9 Aerospace 3.2

KSPX 0.20.X

Shout if it complains about other missing parts, but I scanned through the .craft and think thats all of them. I can most definitely get rid of a few of the required mods, I just prefer those parts to alternatives (B9 RCS blocks are awesome).

*EDIT*

To fly - first make a small correction, get some medium struts between the 2.5-3.5 converter plate and the main launchpad tank, I forgot them, and it oscillates rather wildly when the 4 2.5M side tanks are jettisoned. If you don't strut it up a bit more, it'll survive but shake like hell, I limited throttle to 10% max while on that stage (just before nuke) - usually circularizing/transferring to somewhere at that point.

Before takeoff, right click the control tower and "control from here". For some reason the smelter seems to be in command at the start, even tho my root module was the tower. Then, mechjeb all the way. It turns like a whale in treacle when not under engine power.

When on the final stage, it isn't PERFECTLY balanced, you'll need RCS from about 400m/s dV remaining, and it may start to veer off if you get as low as about 20m/s dV. I couldn't figure this out, only minimize it to this point. Turn on RCS when landing and you'll be fine.

Lastly, the nuclear rocket is intended to be used until just after you've burned to land somewhere. Jettison it then, and any remaining fuel is used for the final descent stage engines, which have way better TWR for Duna etc. You must jettison the nuke before you land. The final 8 side fuel tanks are best gotten rid of before landing also (mechjeb should do this for you).

Awesome! Thank you pasty2k2!

EDIT: To anyone else trying to load pasty2k2's craft he uses the Large Structural Components mod and MK4 Fuselage System v1.2 as well as the other mods he listed.

Edited July 2, 2013 by fractl

[Mishkin_007]

Has anyone successfully mined ore since the kethane .7 update? I'm detecting deposits fine in laythe orbit with the hex map but there's nothing to mine down on the surface nor does it detect the ore...

Found out you cant use the small kethane drill to mine ore. Have to use the auger. lol

Started work on my ore factory.

Edited July 2, 2013 by Mishkin_007

[taniwha]

As a follow up to my post about masses, I'd like to suggest that as the laucnpad uses the mass of the ship to determine the amount of rocket parts required, the calculation should use rocketPartsUnits = rocketPartsMass / rocketPartsDensity (I suspect this is why the EPL resources all have a density of 1). This way, the density can be set to anything appropriate* and requirements will remain balanced. Other than this, my experiment with tweaking the densities seems to work out (though I haven't played with the conversion ratios yet).

* Those who set the density to 0 deserve the number of trips required to produce that amount of rocket parts }:>

[Earthpulse]

Is it possible to use kethane's mining tool to mine the Extraplanetary launchpads ore with some kind of cfg edit?

[Krisism]

Is it possible to use kethane's mining tool to mine the Extraplanetary launchpads ore with some kind of cfg edit?

Yup, this is what I've done with the small external kethane drill too. Add this code:

(edit: I used this to make a separate part for ore drilling, if you're combining them into one drill then you only need the added RESOURCE bit as skycooler adds below)

MODULE

{

name = KethaneExtractor

PowerConsumption = 5

Resource

{

Name = Ore

Rate = 0.01

}

}

MODULE

{

name = KethaneExtractorAnimatorLanded

}

Replacing the 'Rate' with whatever is inline with your process.

Edited July 2, 2013 by Krisism

[skykooler]

Yup, this is what I've done with the small external kethane drill too. Add this code:

MODULE

{

name = KethaneExtractor

PowerConsumption = 5

Resource

{

Name = Ore

Rate = 0.01

}

}

MODULE

{

name = KethaneExtractorAnimatorLanded

}

Replacing the 'Rate' with whatever is inline with your process.

Actually, the only thing you need to add to the Kethane drill is the Resource {} bit, just put it next to the Kethane one.

[Earthpulse]

Ok many thanks both of you!

[Patupi]

Actually, it might be better (eventually) to use cost rather than mass as an evaluation. Right now the costs of parts (modded or stock) are a bit messed up, but eventually it could represent more complicated components requiring more parts and setup to build, or more wasted parts to get something working right. The latter is a bit of a stretch, but it would at least represent the difficulty with more advanced hardware, and limit EL a little in that regard. Perhaps this would not be needed if variations of rocket parts were used instead but I have no idea if Skykooler intends to persue that later or not. It's something to think about relating to KSP's eventual implementation of some kind of tech level system.

[Hremsfeld]

I said this quite a few pages back, but what I've done is just reduce the conversion efficiencies; Instead of ConversionEfficiency = 1 for Ore->Metal, I use 0.25. This is still very ore-rich regolith, but it's not perfect conversion. Metal->Rocket Parts is more efficient, so I set ConversionEfficiency = 0.9

[taniwha]

Hremsfeld: indeed conversion efficiency is needed for Ore->Metal and Metal->Rocket Parts. The problem is Rocket Parts->Rocket. I like your numbers, I'll plug them into my configs.

Patupi: using cost doesn't make sense no matter how accurate it is, because "cost" involves paying someone else to mine, smelt and manufacture. Requiring 10t of rocket parts to make a 10t rocket makes perfect sense, no matter what the costs of the parts are. Now, using the cost to determine recycle value (eg, for Mission Controller) makes perfect sense.

[Patupi]

Well, cost usually refers (at least circuitously) to how difficult it is to make a part. Hence, how difficult it would be for the pad's fabricators to make it. I was just using it as a reference (I didn't mean to convert it from actual money into parts) to make more complicated components use more parts. Yes, the mass of a component would be logical for consistency, as in you have X tons of parts, this gets converted to X tons of rocket... but I was more thinking game play and how to balance the difference between, say, building a poodle rocket engine and a Nerva, ton for ton.

There is also recycle, and recycle. True, for recycling back into cash that would be fine, but for recycling back into components at a remote landing pad you'd need to recycle back using a percentage of whatever formula you used to begin with for the pad to build things from parts.

Edited July 3, 2013 by Patupi

[taniwha]

Well, the conversion efficiencies will cover the "costs" of ore->metal and metal->parts, but there's not really much that can sensibly be done about parts->ship, other than making the ship building take time (it would be rather interesting (the first few times) to watch parts pop into existence as the ship was built), but even then, putting a ship together from parts would take less time than it takes to make the parts.

[harold1363]

I like the concept but it need to be able to fold so it can fit inside 3.75 m fairing.

[elfindreams]

At some point I want to do a series of modules for mining/refining/etc... I just need to sit down and model some of them.

My list so far is:

Auger - A base shrouded auger that feeds into a centrifuge where the raw materials are ground down and sorted, venting any waste material and pulverizing the raw ore into a form that could be stored easily (consistency of coarse sand). This would be cheep energy wise but slow to mine since a lot of the material would be re-vented back out and would require ore storage to be attached.

Micro-Gravity Auger - A shrouded auger that feeds into a chamber where a high-powered laser atomizes the source material... which is then fed into a vacuum condenser separating out the metals from the ore in an extremely efficient rate [venting any non-ore waste], which are then fed into a micro-gravity fabricator that churns out needed parts. This would need /a lot/ of energy to operate and generate a lot of waste heat but would get a near perfect conversion from ore -> metal -> rocket part (I am thinking around a 90%) but would only operate in a limited gravity (the micro-grav fabricators I have seen theorized require it as well as this specific method of "smelting") It would however be very fast as 3d printing of parts speeds up the rate of production a large amount. It would however by its nature be a single non-splittable stack and probably need at least 4 of the larger stock solar panels worth of energy to operate. Operating this one in the dark would take a lot of batteries and wouldn't last very long.

High-powered Smelter - A liquid smelting system in a large compressed centrifuge that can operate in higher gravity environments. It would be smaller than a conventional industrial smelter but would be expensive and use a fair amount of energy (although not as much as the micro-grav one) it would take ore and convert to metal at a rate that is more around 60-80% (haven't decided where) and would be fairly slow. The output would be molten metal which could then be fed into a fabricator or stored in specialized tanks.

Robotic Fabricator - Takes the molten metal and fabricates a series of standardized parts (creates robotic parts) and can work in any environment, however it is big and slow and due to the methods used in manufacturing there is a small amount of waste product (~90% conversion from metal -> part)

I also have a couple of ideas on how the storage stuff should look.

I just need to sit down and re-learn 3d modeling (it has been a while) and see if I can do the parts justice.

Any thoughts?

[taniwha]

harold1363: The hooligan labs pad flew quite well in FAR, however, I suspect FAR didn't model it correctly.

[Hooligan Labs]

Auger / Micro-Gravity Auger

This could be the same part but with the efficiency scaling with gravity. Or two if you feel like doing extra modeling and programming.

Robotic Fabricator - Takes the molten metal and fabricates a series of standardized parts (creates robotic parts) and can work in any environment, however it is big and slow and due to the methods used in manufacturing there is a small amount of waste product (~90% conversion from metal -> part)

I generally imagine this as being part of the "launch pad" itself, otherwise a mechanism would be needed for transferring it to the pad.

I just need to sit down and re-learn 3d modeling (it has been a while) and see if I can do the parts justice.

KhaosCorp just shared this good tutorial with me, but for something this complicated you may need to use Unity too. http://www.alternatewars.com/Games/KSP/Tut1/KSP_Tutorial_1-1.htm

For simple animation, Vanguard Technologies has a useful download plugin that works out of the box.

harold1363: The hooligan labs pad flew quite well in FAR, however, I suspect FAR didn't model it correctly.

I have not attempted FAR. I think SchrodingersHat was starting to adjust my envelopes for it... He hasn't gotten back to me with any details. If anyone wants to post better numbers I could update the download.