[0.22] Extraplanetary Launchpads Legacy Thread

[vasco]

urablahblah: well, here is a set of configs for the sphereical tanks (all 5 sizes, all 3 resources): http://taniwha.org/~bill/el-sphere.zip. Just unzip in in your GameData directory. It's based on the same assumptions I used for balancing the fuel in the spherical tanks (200u/m^3) and the EPL resource.

The weight and attachment points are wrong for small and medium tanks.

Edit: descriptions as well, configs are a copy of large tanks.

Edit2: Can I also suggest to add in description how much in tons each tank can hold.

Edited August 10, 2013 by vasco

[taniwha]

vasco: I've already updated for the copied descriptions, so just re-download.

I really don't want to write hard-coded capacity masses. I should see if there's a way to get it in dynamically.

[edit]Just noticed (and realized: oh yeah) about the weights. I'll fix those too. Thank you.

Edited August 10, 2013 by taniwha

[nhnifong]

Is it possible to spawn ships which include rocketparts containers? When I try from the build menu, ships fail to load. .

As far as I can tell, this is impossibly currently due to a bug.

You can spawn a can of ore and then quicksave, open your save, and find and replace Ore with RocketParts starting at the beginning of the last craft in the file.

[taniwha]

vasco: thank you for your report. all fixed now. corrected spherical tanks

Better yet, thanks to Majiir (Kethane author), the descriptions now sport a dynamic "Wet Mass" indicator, and when kethane updates, it will magically become "Full Mass".

Watch out, that large sphere full of metal will be 1511t

[Zeroignite]

Zeroignite: in the current version, building ships with rocket parts storage may be iffy, but it does work in the dev version on github (though skykooler had some issues I can't reproduce ).

What bugs are those, so I know whether grabbing the dev stream would be worth it?

As for buffing the density of rocket parts:

...

Yes, the density changes are a pretty harsh change to what you're used to, but the previous density was so bogus it wasn't funny: 200t/m³ is just not feasable. The densest known substance this side of neutronium (4x10¹⁴t/m³) is osmium (22.6t/m³).

The old densities were totally broken. In my game, I changed the density of rocketparts to 0.0470588, which makes one Large Hexcan 10 tons. That's still super-dense, but feels about right to me in terms of gameplay.

[taniwha]

What are you shipping, balls of tungsten? Useful for gamma-ray shielding and light-bulbs, I guess. (10t/m³ is just a bit low for packed balls of tungsten (sphere volume is 0.52 of the cube which will hold the sphere, can't be bother figuring out properly packed spheres)).

Go on, give the 0.5t/m³ challenge a go

[edit: forgot to respond to your actual question]The bugs were -ve display of available JetFuel (I did in the end reproduce it (not a bug, just a GUI wart)) and it not finding all LFO available (could not reproduce).

Edited August 10, 2013 by taniwha

[Zeroignite]

It'd be fine if I were able to build containers so I could bootstrap resource storage, but as-is shipping up dozens of hexcans isn't exactly feasible.

Oh, note for anyone who uses both ELP and Orbital Construction, if you change the desnity definition of rocketparts, you may need to modify the storage capacities of the OC parts to accommodate for the density change.

[taniwha]

Use the spherical tanks I linked (though you need to get the mod proper. A single medium tank (with KAS winch and connector) will get you enough to build several tanks. They're only 1.6875t dry (+KAS bits: 0.115t) and hold 12t of parts. One is enough for 6 clones giving 72t of parts storage. Or... one large hexcan (with KAS) can build two large hexcans.

Yeah, there's the problem of shipping more parts, but that's why you should ship raw metal. A small spherical tank holds 55t of metal: enough for the above and a smelter!

[edit]btw, now that EL is working nicely, I can return to my "saving jeb" save (he's stranded on Laythe) and I'll document (screenshots) my efforts.

Edited August 10, 2013 by taniwha

[urablahblah]

vasco: thank you for your report. all fixed now. corrected spherical tanks

Better yet, thanks to Majiir (Kethane author), the descriptions now sport a dynamic "Wet Mass" indicator, and when kethane updates, it will magically become "Full Mass".

Watch out, that large sphere full of metal will be 1511t

I don't think your conversions are correct for the tanks. For instance, the large tank holds 17280 LF + 21120 LO = 38400 L. Since 1 m^3 = 1000 L, then you must divide that number by 1000 to get the storage capacity, i.e. 38400/1000=38.4m^3. You then multiply this by 200 and you get the number of units of ore/metal/parts that can be in the tank. 38.4x200=7680. So your tanks are holding 5 times too much.

The numbers should be as follows:

[table=width: 700, class: grid, align: left]

[tr]

[td]Name[/td]

[td]Large[/td]

[td]Medium[/td]

[td]Small[/td]

[td]Medium 1/2[/td]

[td]Small 1/2[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]Volume[/td]

[td]38.4 m^3[/td]

[td]4.8 m^3[/td]

[td]1.422 m^3[/td]

[td]2.4 m^3[/td]

[td].711 m^3[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]Units Storage[/td]

[td]7680 u[/td]

[td]960 u[/td]

[td]285 u[/td]

[td]480 u[/td]

[td]142 u[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]Tons Ore[/td]

[td]211.2 T[/td]

[td]26.4 T[/td]

[td]7.8375 T[/td]

[td]13.2 T[/td]

[td]3.91875 T[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]Tons Metal[/td]

[td]299.52 T[/td]

[td]37.44 T[/td]

[td]11.115 T[/td]

[td]18.72 T[/td]

[td]5.5575 T[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]Tons RocketParts[/td]

[td]19.2 T[/td]

[td]2.4 T[/td]

[td]0.7125 T[/td]

[td]1.2 T[/td]

[td]0.355 T[/td]

[/tr]

[/table]

Oh, and you mentioned that the dev version on github is working correctly. How do we get our hands on it? Which file needed fixing?

Edited August 10, 2013 by urablahblah

[taniwha]

urablahblah: 1u of LF or O is not 1l but rather 5l. ie, 200u/m³. Even Kethane uses 2.5l/u. And if you're one that thinks parts are 0.5m/1m/2m, then that puts the conversion at 400u/m³ (however, I assure you, parts are 0.625/1.25/2.5m).

The large tank is 7.5m across, or 3.75m radius: that gives 220m³ external volume. I set the internal volume to 192m³ (actually, I just used 6 Jumbo-64s). From there, medium (3.75m diameter) is 24m³ internal, and small (2.5m diameter) is 7.11m³. As a comparison, the Rockomax Jumbo-64 is 2.5m diameter and 7.5ml: 36.8m³ external (32m³ internal), but it holds 6400u of fuel. Thus, there are 200u per cubic meter (assuming the 32m³ is accurate, the exact value is up for debate: Greys uses something like 212u/m³ for her calculations).

The 1u = 1 liter is a myth. Apparently Mu intended for it to be that way, but stock fuel tanks state otherwise.

If you really want 1u=1l for ore/metal/parts, I can do that, but it will require another tweak of resource densities and tank capacities, but the masses in a tank won't change. However, the reason I stuck with 1u=5l is MFS (not that compatibility has been added to the tanks yet).

[edit]Ah, sorry, forgot to answer about git. Um, I suggest visiting github for details on how to get stuff from there as they'll have instructions suited to your OS (I use Linux and do most things via the command line). The files that changed are ExLaunchpad.cs and (new) Resources.cs. As for the problem skykooler had that I couldn't reproduce: I realized that for some reason my changes didn't get into his build (I could tell by the resource order in his build gui).

Edited August 10, 2013 by taniwha

[urablahblah]

urablahblah: 1u of LF or O is not 1l but rather 5l. ie, 200u/m³. Even Kethane uses 2.5l/u. And if you're one that thinks parts are 0.5m/1m/2m, then that puts the conversion at 400u/m³ (however, I assure you, parts are 0.625/1.25/2.5m).

The large tank is 7.5m across, or 3.75m radius: that gives 220m³ external volume. I set the internal volume to 192m³ (actually, I just used 6 Jumbo-64s). From there, medium (3.75m diameter) is 24m³ internal, and small (2.5m diameter) is 7.11m³. As a comparison, the Rockomax Jumbo-64 is 2.5m diameter and 7.5ml: 36.8m³ external (32m³ internal), but it holds 6400u of fuel. Thus, there are 200u per cubic meter (assuming the 32m³ is accurate, the exact value is up for debate: Greys uses something like 212u/m³ for her calculations).

The 1u = 1 liter is a myth. Apparently Mu intended for it to be that way, but stock fuel tanks state otherwise.

If you really want 1u=1l for ore/metal/parts, I can do that, but it will require another tweak of resource densities and tank capacities, but the masses in a tank won't change. However, the reason I stuck with 1u=5l is MFS (not that compatibility has been added to the tanks yet).

Ah. Of course. Like my middle-school teacher always warned me, I find my mistake if I show my work. Stupid me. Turns out the wiki has incorrectly labeled tables for fuel capacity. It is labeled as L, when it should be units. So the fuel density for KSP is 1 kg/L or 5 kg/unit. Stupid wiki.

Anyway, my other question, how do we get the fixed file that allows ships with ore/metal/rocketparts to be built?

Edited August 10, 2013 by urablahblah

[Mihara]

As for the problem skykooler had that I couldn't reproduce: I realized that for some reason my changes didn't get into his build (I could tell by the resource order in his build gui).

Just built it a few hours ago myself, that fixed the "can't build things with sliders not at 100%" problem, but the problem of being unable to spawn rocket parts containers remains. Did the pull request not come through yet or something?

[alacrity]

I love the new launcher and animation... I will miss sme of my creative parachute rigs for landing the old beast

NEED MOAR PARACHUTES

Anyway... gonna play around with extraplanetary today to get ready for the Duna Invasion.

Alacrity

[alacrity]

ok I have a wee bit of a problem...

Are the cans meant to spawn full, or is there a setting I am not seeing? Trying to get a smelter launch capable but the weight of the full cans is making things a little... interesting at lift off

Alacrity

[taniwha]

Mihara: odd, I spawned one yesterday (without debug):

Admittedly, I didn't try quicksaving or anything like that. I'll play around with it today.

urablahblah: yup. that's exactly why one should always show one's work: so peers can point out flawed assumptions.

[JewelShisen]

nvm... my math was a bit rusty...

Edited August 10, 2013 by JewelShisen

[Mihara]

Mihara: odd, I spawned one yesterday (without debug):

Quite. To be more precise about what I did:

I installed Visual Studio 2012 Express, got the git code dump from https://github.com/skykooler/Extraplanetary-Launchpads and built it. I then created numerous test vessels mostly consisting of rocket parts containers and tried to spawn them on a debug-enabled launchpad. None of the test vessels even loads if it contains a part that can contain rocket parts, it doesn't even snow me the resource sliders. Everything else builds normally. I have not yet tried a non-debug-enabled launchpad because that would involve more complicated preparation for testing. (My crane doesn't fit on the space center launchpad. )

This repeated for vessels which had a rocketparts container as root and non-root, for vessels made from hexcans that come with the mod (i.e. non-empty containers) and modded spherical tanks (i.e. empty containers) so I'm pretty sure it's not the containers themselves.

I might have messed up the build process somehow, of course, I normally stay as far away from Windows compilers as possible, but this doesn't sound particularly likely.

[skykooler]

Quite. To be more precise about what I did:

I installed Visual Studio 2012 Express, got the git code dump from https://github.com/skykooler/Extraplanetary-Launchpads and built it. I then created numerous test vessels mostly consisting of rocket parts containers and tried to spawn them on a debug-enabled launchpad. None of the test vessels even loads if it contains a part that can contain rocket parts, it doesn't even snow me the resource sliders. Everything else builds normally. I have not yet tried a non-debug-enabled launchpad because that would involve more complicated preparation for testing. (My crane doesn't fit on the space center launchpad. )

This repeated for vessels which had a rocketparts container as root and non-root, for vessels made from hexcans that come with the mod (i.e. non-empty containers) and modded spherical tanks (i.e. empty containers) so I'm pretty sure it's not the containers themselves.

I might have messed up the build process somehow, of course, I normally stay as far away from Windows compilers as possible, but this doesn't sound particularly likely.

A thought: I've been using MonoDevelop to compile things. Perhaps there are small differences between MonoDevelop and VS that are causing your bug?

[taniwha]

Mihara: very strange indeed. I've sent you a PM.

[Captain Sierra]

This + HOME2 out same weekend, YES!!!!!!! + New Kethane not too long ago. I'm in heaven!

[Kaa253]

taniwha: All your small and medium spherical tanks foe EL transform into the large sizes when I go to launch. I think it is not just me? The hemispherical versions are fine.

[Mihara]

A thought: I've been using MonoDevelop to compile things. Perhaps there are small differences between MonoDevelop and VS that are causing your bug?

Quite possible, well, let me try with MonoDevelop...

[taniwha]

Kaa253: d'oh. thank you. I've fixed them. I hope there's nothing else, this is getting a little embarrassing

[Reddot99]

Err... Where's the actual plugin? :/

[taniwha]

Reddot99: for what? the tanks?