Assembling a ship in orbit, multiple trips

[KerbMav]

Two questions really:

When building a larger ship by lifting multiple parts with multiple trips into orbit - every part would need a docking clamp on the location it is supposed to connect to another part, right?

1.

I seem to be unable to built the (then) payload (in VAB) with clamps on two parts that are to decouple in orbit and be put into their place on the ship to be built. (Basical I want to build a rocket from LEGOs and reassemble them into my ship in orbit.)

When I take one part (of the ship) and put a clamp on it, I cannot connect another part (in VAB) with its own clamp - or at least I do not know how.

2.

As docking clamps do not transport fuel, do I have to bring up every engine with all tanks already in place and connected by fuel lines as one module each or is there another way to built "fuel lines" when assembling the ship in orbit?

(note to self: make a suggestion post to be able to build fuel lines via EVA missions)

Edited June 14, 2013 by KerbMav

[Johnno]

When I take one part (of the ship) and put a clamp on it, I cannot connect another part (in VAB) with its own clamp - or at least I do not know how.

If I understand you correctly it entirely depends on your order of things. Some items behave differently when building so it's easiest to build from one direction. If you want two identical parts you either have to use the symmetry mode, or build them individually, it doesn't always work to just build an item and try to attach a copy of it. There's all sorts of ways to attach docking ports, you can even attach stuff onto them that's not a docking port, so that when you undock them in space they just let go. I'd say test around or show specific pictures of things you have problems with, bit hard to understand exactly what you mean just by description.

As docking clamps do not transport fuel, do I have to bring up every engine with all tanks already in place and connected by fuel lines as one module each or is there another way to built "fuel lines" when assembling the ship in orbit?

Do you mean fuel crossfeed? They do. I've myself made a interplanetary engine stage that docked onto my ship while having no fuel of its own.

(note to self: make a suggestion post to be able to build fuel lines via EVA missions)

No need to make the suggestion, there's already a mod for it. Think it's called KAS - Kerbal Attachment Systems... or somesuch.

[KerbMav]

you can even attach stuff onto them that's not a docking port, so that when you undock them in space they just let go.

Which is exactly the problem I am having. To be able to reassambled my "LEGOs" in orbit after being used as framework for the rocket, the would most probably need more clamps then the VAB would let me built in - when I tried to make a connected payload of station-part..clamp..clamp..station-part, it would not let me connect the second clamp to the first - but I wasnt trying to hard last night ...

Do you mean fuel crossfeed? They do. I've myself made a interplanetary engine stage that docked onto my ship while having no fuel of its own.

Hm - I read elsewhere to connect an engine with a docking clamp to the tank above to not directly feed said engine ... maybe I read it wrong.

No need to make the suggestion, there's already a mod for it. Think it's called KAS - Kerbal Attachment Systems... or somesuch.

As the game is still in development and as I favor built in functions above external modifications ...

[Johnno]

when I tried to make a connected payload of station-part..clamp..clamp..station-part, it would not let me connect the second clamp to the first - but I wasnt trying to hard last night ...

Docking port - docking port connections work fine, but not everything attaches well to docking ports once they're already attached from one side. If you're having trouble rotate your camera so you're viewing the docking port from the side and slowly move the pieces together and wait for them to snap fit.

Hm - I read elsewhere to connect an engine with a docking clamp to the tank above to not directly feed said engine ... maybe I read it wrong.

Might be an unintended feature, I didn't put my engines directly onto docking clamps. But either way docking ports do allow fuel crossfeed and you can have engines without fuel at the rear take fuel from the front.

As the game is still in development and as I favor built in functions above external modifications ...

Has already been suggested in the suggestions forum. Probably more times than one.

[ImpulseSpaceCenter]

Which is exactly the problem I am having. To be able to reassambled my "LEGOs" in orbit after being used as framework for the rocket, the would most probably need more clamps then the VAB would let me built in - when I tried to make a connected payload of station-part..clamp..clamp..station-part, it would not let me connect the second clamp to the first - but I wasnt trying to hard last night ...

It is possible to do it, just make sure of few things:

- your child item is not already attach the the parent from somewhere else as the game does not support that feature (yet?)

- sometime your camera placement make the whole differences! moving it can allow it to work.

- I have found (mainly with senior ports) that the game is not sure where it should attach it and so the clamp is switching back and forth between the good place and a place where it overlay the first port. Often happening when I build upward.

I have found that making that port connection building backward and then moving the 2 ports attached together where I want then work lot better.

[Syhrus]

This is certainly possible. I've done it before. The only problem is that it doesn't leave you with a very structurally sound ship once you've reassembled it into its final form. Docking ports (even snr.'s) are not very strong laterally. I'm actually designing a few multi-launch capital ships at the moment, and the biggest I have planned is only 5 launches to build. Some key tips I have for this kind of construction:

1. Have your ports facing ONLY forward-aft on the ship. This reduces structural wobble under thrust, and avoids nasty breakages.

2. Where possible, use mulitple ports. This helps distribute the load, and helps reduce wobble.

3. Keep in mind that all these links add to your part count, so don't expect to be able to build a ship as large as you could with a few launches with different parts.

[Colonel_Panic]

Two questions really:

When building a larger ship by lifting multiple parts with multiple trips into orbit - every part would need a docking clamp on the location it is supposed to connect to another part, right?

1.

I seem to be unable to built the (then) payload (in VAB) with clamps on two parts that are to decouple in orbit and be put into their place on the ship to be built. (Basical I want to build a rocket from LEGOs and reassemble them into my ship in orbit.)

When I take one part (of the ship) and put a clamp on it, I cannot connect another part (in VAB) with its own clamp - or at least I do not know how.

Are you trying to combine ships via subassembly loader? AFAIK this doesn't work because the root part of an assembly is never the docking port unless that's where you started building it as an addon to another existing ship. It is doable, but it takes planning in construction, and you sometimes have to 'build backwards'. Place a docking port on the piece you're working on where you want the next piece to join, then place another docking port facing the first (using the wasd/qe keys to rotate it to the way you want them joined) and then start building your next module. This works best if you start building from the 'core' module. Also you can alt+click to duplicate a singular assembly and make an identical copy to attach elsewhere on the ship.

2.

As docking clamps do not transport fuel, do I have to bring up every engine with all tanks already in place and connected by fuel lines as one module each or is there another way to built "fuel lines" when assembling the ship in orbit?

Unfortunately fuel management is broken for ships assembled via docking clamps, since docking clamps override fuel lines with "everything on this half of the ship can share fuel with everything on the other half." To get around this, seperate the docking clamp from the main ship via a decoupler on one side, and just don't use the decoupler. Then treat fuel management like you would with a regular ship, as if the docking ports were two-way fuel lines. Attach your directional fuel lines to the decouplers to feed fuel to the other side.

Edited June 12, 2013 by Colonel_Panic

[Rickenbacker]

Did you remember to turn the second docking port around? If not, hitting A twice will fix your problem...

[rodion_herrera]

From what I've read, the OP doesn't seem to know how to flip objects around using the WASD keys, inside the SPH or VAB. He probably also isn't aware that you can manually transfer fuel and oxidizer via Right Click (first fuel tank) and then ALT Right Click (second fuel tank), and then deciding fuel/oxidizer flow via the "in" and "out" buttons.

Edited June 12, 2013 by rodion_herrera

[KerbMav]

Ah ... yes, that was the problem ... thank you!

[Macenzie]

One thing I've learned from making this kind of craft is fuel will only automatically transfer along the "snap to" parts, so engines and tanks attached to radial docking ports (not connected by the six way adaptor) will not use fuel from the central body. Keep that in mind, especialy if you want to have a lot of engines.

[KerbMav]

One thing I've learned from making this kind of craft is fuel will only automatically transfer along the "snap to" parts, so engines and tanks attached to radial docking ports (not connected by the six way adaptor) will not use fuel from the central body. Keep that in mind, especialy if you want to have a lot of engines.

So you are saying I cant docking-clamp x tanks for a tour across the starsystem and just open the throttle, I would have to manually "refill" the "working" tank from the carried "reserves"?

But I am confused, as I am reading contradictory information - or at least I read them as such.

So far I remember reading:

1. docking clamps do not constitute fuel lines

2. docking clamps lead through fuel

3. docking "clamped" assemblies use the resources available from all attached sources (this possibly only meant electrical energy and RCS fuel)

Side note:

Can fuel lines be built from one engine to the next?

Can I connect fuel lines from a tank to a fuel channeling module - e.g. a tank across a "void" (modular girder constructs) to an SAS module above an engine? (Just as a mind game, no real use intended)

Hm ... a tank nozzle: tank, long girder module(s), docking clamp - would fuel lines be needed? Would fuel transfer work between tanks? It should I think ...

[Macenzie]

So you are saying I cant docking-clamp x tanks for a tour across the starsystem and just open the throttle, I would have to manually "refill" the "working" tank from the carried "reserves"?

What I mean is:

Part A has a tank, you dock Part B which has an engine to Part A via a clamp on the end of the part (in the VAB you see little green spheres that snap your parts together, fuel can transfer automatically through those)

Next you attach Part C to a docking clamp you placed on the side of Part A's fuel tank, since this is attached "radialy" the engine on Part C will not use fuel from Part A.

[KerbMav]

Radial! That was the word I was missing/not seeing.

Thank you for your patience!

I have to pay more attention - or sleep more - I am getting to old for these 9h shifts in the spaceport. ;p