Exo's Rubberband and Duct Tape Emporium. SSTOS, Weird Space Ships, and more!

[sopwerdna]

Love all these ships... I have to say, pa1983's SSTOs are awesome... but they don't look that great. These, on the other hand, look incredible. Great work! +rep

[Exothermos]

Thanks! Yeah. The aesthetic component comes easily to me, it's the technical stuff i feel I still have much room to improve on. Really, it's the technical capability of a design that gives it its staying power. When something looks really awesome I download it, fly it to see if it works, then tear it apart to hunt for good ideas. Usually that's it. But if it does something useful, then it actually gets used to play the game, and that's super cool. That's where the designs of people like pa1983 and Cupcake really shine. Most of my designs in the pipeline are very 'performance' oriented, so they take a while to iron the kinks out. Most future designs will have to actually DO something. Besides be really, really, ridiculously good looking!

But that said I just don't have it in my heart to play with something ugly, so my future releases will be pretty good looking too! ( I hope)

Edited October 3, 2013 by Exothermos

[SRFirefox]

The Argo spacebus is a pretty awesome craft. I've gotten it into orbit a couple times, but I have a few critiques for it. Most importantly, the intakes that cannot be shut are causing serious drag problems when the nukes are engaged. This wouldn't be a problem if it could get up to 2000m/s on the jets alone, but I've only managed around 1600m/s on jets before the last two flamed out. I have been unsuccessful at pulling it apart to re-allocate the action groups to close those intakes. I'm also having issues with fuel displacement and trying to see through the clipped tanks to transfer it around. I'll get back to you if I can 'fix' any of those problems.

That said, can't beat putting sixteen intrepid astronauts in orbit at one time!

Edited October 6, 2013 by SRFirefox

[Exothermos]

Great, glad you like it! Thanks for your feedback!

I've modified the .craft file with many more of the intakes selected on the [5] action group. This should help your insertion maneuver. During testing I found I never really needed to close so many, but that's why I like feedback: turns out it is definitely a little better with more intakes closed. Remember, you have that aerospike at your disposal too, which isn't the most efficient, of course, but is enough thrust to get you a good apoapsis quickly. You can leave the circularization to the nukes.

As far as the fuel balancing is concerned, I never really needed to balance the shuttle during ascent. I only needed to balance for docking maneuvers. For this, moving fuel between the three x200 "pancake" tanks [green] seems adequate.

You can access the clipped tanks my clicking on either side of the red higlighted tank.

Are you struggling with the ascent phase?

I just ran a couple of test flights to create ascent profile instructions for the Argo:

1) Hit action groups [1,2,5] and throttle up. The craft will lift off at 90kph.

2) Climb at 50 degrees to 16k. Hit action group [5] again to reopen intakes. Begin slow leveling maneuver from 50 degrees to 15 degrees at 28k.

3) Accelerate at 15 degrees pitch between 28k and 34k. You will need to juggle the jet engines and throttle. Keep your ascent rate above 10m/s. Hit [2] at 0.18 intake air (4 engines active). At 0.12 air, Hit [1] to shut 4 engines down, and hit [2] again to fire up the other 2 again. In other words your Number active engines goes 6-4-2.

4) As your ascent rate and Airspeed gains start slowing, turn on the nukes [4] and rotate to 25 degrees.

5) As your ascent rate and Airspeed gains start slowing again, the jets should be out of juice (around 34k and well over 2000 is attainable), and you will be at a low throttle setting. Turn them off [2], Hit [4] to fire up the aerospike, [5] to close the intakes and rotate to 50 degrees.

6) Power to at least 74 apoapsis and shut everything down when that number is achieved.

7) Coast to apoapsis and use NERVAs to circularize.

The Argo was my first large SSTO and as such, it is a little less than optimal, building finesse-wise. If I were to rebuild this craft (which I might) I would definitely fix the inherent fuel balancing problem.

How it is

How it should be.

It's amazing how well it works, considering.

Edited October 8, 2013 by Exothermos

[SRFirefox]

Success! I made it to orbit with about half of the remaining oxidizer, and barely used the aerospike in the process. Using the aux thrust from the NERVAs, I was able to hold onto the last two jets until ~37k. This is where my flightplan differs significantly from yours. When above ~36k or so, atmospheric drag (especially with the intakes closed) becomes very small. With a short burn at about 25* with the aerospike, I pushed the apokee to T-2:30 and then used a few minutes worth of nuclear engine burn to push it to ~160k, the location of my future space station. It worked a charm, following the first four and a half steps of your plan worked brilliantly. Thanks!

[Javster]

*fewer than 500 parts. Parts are countable.

Anyway, very cool plane.

[Exothermos]

If you are referring to the Aeon, I was stating that as a goal I was trying (but failed) to meet. Actual part count is 555 on the craft file I believe. Add to that the part count of whatever tug design you go with. It's not what I wanted, but it is a compromise I had to make.

[HappilyStreet]

Frankly, I am not sure if Exo or anyone for that matter will see this, but heck I'll give this a whirl. Exo ever since I saw this thread one it first started I feel in love with Exo's crafts, I even took away some craft building techniques from them too. Sadly, due to severe depression and near suicide I fell away from KSP and the forums, but coming back to see what I've see now is amazing. Time to start catching up!

[Exothermos]

Woah, well I'm glad you are back in the saddle! I don't necessarily want to take this thread on a tangent, but if building stuff is what makes you happy, DO IT. And share! That's, like, 80% of the fun for me. I build all sorts of stuff and do things in the game that I never share, but any victories that aren't worth sharing, are hollow ones for me.

If you need SSTO building tips, or need help with my craft in anyway, ask away! Besides me, there is some seriously talented builders that frequent this subforum and this thread, even. Heck, most of the cool building techniques I use in my craft are strait-up stolen from those folks! (you know who you are ) You should do the same. Slap stuff together and steal stuff from other people just to see how it works. You can even take apart ships and drag cool components over to the new subassembly tab to use on your own builds. Eventually you will figure out what you like, and what you don't. And that's where a style comes from. I hope my craft show a certain aesthetic style in that regard.

ps, I've got both big serious SSTOs and some fun little SSTOs in the pipeline (check out the SSTO showcase thread), as well as some other stuff so if you like my stuff, stay tuned!

[baberbot]

Very impressed never seen as many good SSTOs all at once how are you so good?

[HappilyStreet]

Well, Thank you. I'll keep this quick and simple, don't want to take this down the route of that whole fuel issue early in the thread. And I browse the Forums a lot, and every time i see something I like, I take and cannibalize it and and it to my building techniques. Building is my favorite part of this game. Though I'm not sure if any of it is worth sharing, but I have fun with them.

[Dvarx]

Hey I just love Ardent, even thou I have to fight a spontaneous spin after reentry But it always recover

Wanted to ask you what is a flight protocol with it, as I find it it a good shuttle for my Laythe base. If I like this plane my company would buy a five of them for this mission with some adaptations...

[Exothermos]

Hey I just love Ardent, even thou I have to fight a spontaneous spin after reentry But it always recover

Wanted to ask you what is a flight protocol with it, as I find it it a good shuttle for my Laythe base

Glad you like it! I must admit, I have experienced the reentry spin a time or two as well in the Ardent. I've since realized that this is because the drag from the air intakes is so far forward, and the fuselage is very short, so that the plane wants to swap ends on reentry. The best way to avoid this on the current design is to keep your intakes closed until around 15,000 meters and keep your nose on your Navball pip. You won't need them anyway. Also, a steep reentry angle seems to exacerbate it. As my previous sentence alluded to, I am in the middle of optimizing all of my designs with little fixes that I have learned in the months since their original design. Currently the Accipiter and the Agilus are on the Table and are essentially complete. The Accipiter is getting more thrust, better fuel flow, and much lower part count, and the Agilus is getting an engine swap to decrease time-to-orbit, decrease weight, and increase DV when in space. I'll make the Ardent my next priority on that list. I'll fix that forward drag problem on the base variant, and see if I can make it a little more friendly for the rough landings on Laythe with a "field" variant. This will likely mean more lift for slower rotation and stall speeds.

Very impressed never seen as many good SSTOs all at once how are you so good?

Thanks! It's probably due to an unhealthy obsession with the game, and with SSTOs in particular. I was late to work this morning because I was building SSTOs in my head while staring blankly at the shower wall.

Edited December 1, 2013 by Exothermos

[sal_vager]

Congrats on Spacecraft Exchange forum thread of the month of December Exothermos

[Nephf]

Congrats on Spacecraft Exchange forum thread of the month of December Exothermos

Congratulations!

[Cupcake...]

Nice one!

Cupcake...

[KissSh0t]

Well deserved I think..

[Deathsoul097]

Other than cupcake's designs, which I can barely even fathom on my best days, I would have to say these are the best SSTOs on the forum IMHO. Well done, and well deserved, Exothermos.

[Exothermos]

Woah! This is a surprise, Cool! Thanks everybody! I will endevor to release some of the 5 or 6 SSTOs I am juggling "while the iron is hot", so to speak.

[Chirality]

Exothermos, do you still have that "Egg" SSTO?

[Exothermos]

It's coming! It's being released this weekend with a couple other smaller SSTOs. Basically, whenever I have time to write up the post and juggle all the file and picture editing/dumping.

[Exothermos]

4 NEW SSTOs Added to the Front Page OP!

Here is the Aeon Post for safe keeping:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Aeon Cargo SSTO

I've been working on this ship for quite a while, and it has finally come to fruition. Inspired by pa1983's awesome interplanetary SSTOs , I decided to try something similar. The goal was to deliver a big, heavy rover to my little Duna colony with an SSTO. Ideally, accomplishing this all in one stage: Plane takes off, goes to Duna, lands, drops cargo, achieves Duna orbit, transfers home. On top of this, for playability, I wanted to try for less than 500 parts. This ship achieves many of those performance goals, but not all. A Tug will be needed for the planetary transfer between Kerbin and Duna, and the partcount is around 600 with a tug in place. This keeps the part count down to a playable 550 on the SSTO section (At least it is playable on my computer; see Tips section for performance tweaks). Oh well, you can't have it all.

While I was at it, I decided to try a few new things on this design with landing and payload delivery. Landing on Duna in a spaceplane is incredibly difficult. The atmosphere is very thin, and the terrain is... "duney", making normal glide slope landings all but impossible in a large SSTO like this. Parachutes to the rescue! One can land this ship like a conventional powered vertical lander, slowing with aerospikes, or go for a fuel-saving powered paragliding-style landing.

Personally I like using all those lifting surfaces and do the paragliding. Just make sure to hit f5!

Once landed, putt-putt around until you find a reasonably flat area to deliver the payload.

extend your kickstands [7], kneel the plane down [8], uncouple the payload, extend the main legs [9].

Now you can drive your rover out!

For take-off, find a gentle downward slope, turn RCS on, and hit the main engines. You can use the vertical Aerospikes [0] to help lift-off. There is plenty of gas and power to get back to Low Duna orbit, and if you were thrifty with fuel (use your NERVAs as much as possible, not the aerospikes), you can then make the transfer back to Kerbin on one tank.

Tips:

1) For a huge performance gain with almost no discernible side effects, turn the physics passes down in your settings. "Max Physics Delta-Time per Frame" is the setting, slide it to the right as much as needed. You can further tweak it in the Config file if you want to.

2) Ascent on Kerbin is standard Air Hogging fare. Turn Engines off as needed, and accelerate at 30k altitude.

3) When landing on Duna, chose the lowest point possible for easiest landing.

4) For Kerbin reentry, the plane handles best with full Fuselage tanks, if you have left over fuel pump it to these parts. Do not fly at high angles of attack on reentry.

5) Rover particulars: Lock stearing on the rear wheels, and turn off the motors on the front most wheels for maximum stability. The rover will do over 25 m/s on duna, but that is... "Not Advised".

6) The ship will function manned or unmanned. If you elect to have a kerbal (or 5) on board, click the docking port on the nose and hit "Control from Here" to orient everything appropriately.

Action Groups:

[1]Outboard Jet Engines

[2]Jets

[3]Jets

[4]NERVAs

[5]Aerospikes

[6]Air Intakes

[7]Kickstands

[8]Gear

[9]Main Legs

[0]Vertical Aerospikes

So there you have it, a big rover-dropping SSTO truck. One could easily repurpose this design for LKO payload delivery by deleting all the heavy landing apparatus, and slapping your own payload in. If you don't have much experience landing spaceplanes on Duna, you are going to crash it at first. I did, a lot. And frankly now that I have this under my belt, I probably won't revisit the idea for Duna. Conventional rocket powered landers really make more sense there, but where is the adventure in that?! Landing on Laythe, on the other hand, is a cinch in comparison. But I'll leave the particulars for you to discover.

DOWNLOAD Aeon Cargo SSTO

Edited December 9, 2013 by Exothermos

[KissSh0t]

Aeon Cargo is just crazy... I could never get the one I tried building based on it to even get into orbit xD

[Exothermos]

Yeah, I'm pretty happy with that one in general. I'm working on a cargo craft to deliver payloads to LKO based on the construction of the Aeon, but it is fighting me, surprisingly. It works, but I want it to be an easy and enjoyable experience to get to orbit. I'm fighting to avoid the 25 degre, half-hour climb to orbit that crafts with high payload fractions seem to suffer from. That means increasing the TWR for a more authoritative climb, which means more engines, and thus parts, which is computer-wrecking "no fun".

It's a challenge, but if it were easy it would be boring!

[DeliciousPi]

So... I'm sure I'm not the first to wonder this, but... are you going to be doing anything wih the new R.A.I.P.E.R. engines? In my personal experience so far, they make building SSTOs really, really easy... on my first try, I threw together 2 jet fuel tanks, 2 FLT 800s, and 2 R.A.I.P.E.Rs... and got into a 250 km orbit on first launch. WIth the jets/rockets combination, everyhing has taken at least 6 or 7 launches to work out. However, I would say that they are just short of being OP. (One nice thing is the instant response to throttle change in airbreathing mode... so nice...) I still think, however, that Jet + Rockets is still the better option... I mean, I sent one of my spaceplanes to a duna landing without refueling using two nukes... if that's possible with the new engines without boatloads of rocket fuel, then I'll eat my metaphorical hat. Also, the efficacy of the of the nukes means that you need less rocket fuel, which translates to less jet fuel to lift the rocket fuel, which results in smaller, faster, sleeker craft.

TL;DR: The new engines are just short of OP, but for me, Jet + Nuke combos are stil superior. Will you be doing any designs with the R.A.P.I.E.Rs?

Edited December 18, 2013 by DeliciousPi
Clarification on one point