[0.90] Magic Smoke Industries Infernal Robotics - 0.19.3

[phoenix_ca]

I bet you own an Apple product.

That's actually just plain stupid. I own an Apple product. Actually, all my computers are Macs right now. And what, does that mean I'm an idiot too? Your statement is irrelevant. Some people use them because they are perceived as easier to manage (and they are, speaking from experience with OS X, Windows since Win3.1, and piles of Linux and Unix distros since those Win3.1 days, OS X is the easiest to use and manage of the lot), some people use them because they provide superior support for software and hardware they will be using. There's a very good reason (actually a lot of very good reasons) you see most professional artists in film, photography, and audio, using Macs.

Don't be stupid and make off-hand, irrelevant statements. Stay on topic. Your post was largely on-point until you made that egregious error in reasoning.

Apologies to everyone else for the rant.

I program too, totally different stuff, but I understand what you mean about knowing the issue but not knowing the cure, maddening!! I'm guessing the documentation for KSP's API is poor at best too, that must make things much harder.

KSP's API has documentation? First I've heard mention of such a mythical creature.

[katateochi]

That made me laugh so hard!

I know that the docking issue has been mentioned before but I just wanted to document it now.

snip*

That docking issue sounds very similar to the one I had and it was caused by another mod (Nova Punch in my case). I really recommend checking if you can replicate it without mods. In my case I didn't have to uninstall the mods, just had to remove the parts from the craft and then it was ok. Your craft look pretty stock thou, so it might be a plugin thats effecting it. If you don't have the HD space you could just temporarily move everything except the stock folders out of GameData and try it (in a new sandbox save, so the missing parts don't result in you loosing craft that are in flight).

*snip

KSP's API has documentation? First I've heard mention of such a mythical creature.

lol, I was guessing that if there was any it would be poor. so, none at all eh!? That's weak!

[Albert VDS]

lol, I was guessing that if there was any it would be poor. so, none at all eh!? That's weak!

Why spend time a resources on something which has a high tendency to change?

[sirkut]

Most of it is Unity programming and ConfigurableJoints documentation has a lot to be desired. I'm just glad I had a second eyes tearing through the SetupJoints code to find a solution. I'll be updating the link to Mediafire and removing the files from Github in just a second and will be calling it 0.14. I think it's stable enough for people to play with and use. I'll be tackling the toolbar & docking issue next.

[phoenix_ca]

Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa....

...aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa...

...aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay.

...

Yay.

[taniwha]

Most of it is Unity programming and ConfigurableJoints documentation has a lot to be desired

Unless you meant something completely different, the usual expression is "... leaves a lot to be desired" (= not very good). But yeah, CJ's docs are not very good. It took me a while to figure out what was going on, and that was back in KSP 0.20.1.

[sirkut]

Unless you meant something completely different, the usual expression is "... leaves a lot to be desired" (= not very good). But yeah, CJ's docs are not very good. It took me a while to figure out what was going on, and that was back in KSP 0.20.1.

I'm not a morning person. You'll have to excuse me butchering a phrase in the morning.

[Wyrmshadow]

I give the update a 90%. Good thing I made a backup save.

I had set up a system where a could have a gantry and a rail system within the B9 cargo pods to easily remove probes and small ships instead of trying to manhandle them inside the tiny S2 bays. Before 23.5 things worked fine just like with everyone else, the probes would be eased completely out of the cargo bays. Now the gantry and rails, work, but in opposite directions from their originals. So now they work against each other.

Another issue, the docking washer doesn't work too well. This is a generic lander I created for Duna and everything smaler. Originally I had used the Thor capsule from (Novapunch?).. anyway there was suddenly an issue with the model where the command pod would detach itself from the rest of the ship when I loaded it on the launch pad. No clue why it happened, not even struts kept it attached to the service module/booster. So I had to replace it with the squad capsule. The problem was that the EVA hatch and ladder were no longer aligned with the ladders on the rest of the ship. In comes the docking washer to fix that and also repackage all the parachutes by giving easy access all around the perimeter of the service module section. Everything was tested on ground before launch. Then came 23.5. With the new fix, the docking washer does rotate, but now so does the decoupler just below it in the opposite direction, negating any work.

3rd issue, and I don't know if it's IR that is doing it because I don't have any IR parts, just a disaster that has not happened before until the new IR install. I use the RemoteTech2, forcing me to build large relay stations in Kerbin orbit to communicate with all my far flung probes. Only this week I've manged to get something to all the planets. I had 2 relays.. one decided to blow up a month ago. It was tedious to realigned all the outbound probes to the secondary. Today I checked on that relay to aim at a few new things, and it fell out of the sky. It would not respond to any rotate commands. When I checked the map screen.. at an altitude of 5000km it has 2m/s as the orbital speed. Even using HyperEdit to fix the orbit, it did not fix the problem. It fixed it for a moment, nice circular orbit, then nothing, a strait cyan blue line back to Kerbal. One of the settings on the Hyperedit menu said "infinity" This has never happened before until the update. Yikes!

[sirkut]

I'll look at those issues. I'm not sure what you mean with the rails working against each other. That one is going to be tough to troubleshoot since you have a lot of mods I don't recognize in those screenshots. That last issue sounds like a fluke as I don't see how it would affect everything else.

[Wyrmshadow]

I'll look at those issues. I'm not sure what you mean with the rails working against each other. That one is going to be tough to troubleshoot since you have a lot of mods I don't recognize in those screenshots. That last issue sounds like a fluke as I don't see how it would affect everything else.

I had the two linked. The gantry and the rail on top of the gantry would both move in the same direction, as shown in the shuttle screen shot. That is how it's supposed to look fully extended and working previous to 23.5. Now the gantry extends one way while the rail moves in the opposite direction. In my 6 podded interplanetary explorer, I had both parts linked for simplicity since they both extended in the same direction, lots of buttons when you have a dozen parts so I combined them. Now, the docking port junior attached to the rail only moves to the very edge of the cargo bays, a big improvement on before though.

[sirkut]

I had the two linked. The gantry and the rail on top of the gantry would both move in the same direction, as shown in the shuttle screen shot. That is how it's supposed to look fully extended and working previous to 23.5. Now the gantry extends one way while the rail moves in the opposite direction. In my 6 podded interplanetary explorer, I had both parts linked for simplicity since they both extended in the same direction, lots of buttons when you have a dozen parts so I combined them. Now, the docking port junior attached to the rail only moves to the very edge of the cargo bays, a big improvement on before though.

Just to be sure, you replace all the pre 23.5 parts with the new ones right?

[Wyrmshadow]

Just to be sure, you replace all the pre 23.5 parts with the new ones right?

By 'new' you mean erase the old folders and replace with the update. Yes

Or by 'new' rebuilt my ships? No.

I only tested them on ships that were already far far away from Kerbal on 300+ day missions already.

[sirkut]

By 'new' you mean erase the old folders and replace with the update. Yes

Or by 'new' rebuilt my ships? No.

I only tested them on ships that were already far far away from Kerbal on 300+ day missions already.

Replacing the folder with the update. If you can replicate a bug using stock parts it would help in finding the problem and post the craft file otherwise I'm not going to know how to fix it.

[Midanthrope]

Sirkut,

Been watching this forum closely over the last couple of weeks. Just wanted to drop a quick line and say that all of your dedication and hard work is appreciated. The collaboration with other members of the community in coming together to get this awesome mod working is what makes the KSP community generally far and above anything else. There are of course exceptions to this, but good on you for ignoring the unappreciative, entitled children. Anyway, thanks again to you and everyone that tested and continue to make this game changing module a working reality.

[larkvi]

Thank you for all your work in getting this amazing mod back up and working after the update. It makes designing probes and satellites so much more fun.

[Prowler_x1]

Sirkut,

Been watching this forum closely over the last couple of weeks. Just wanted to drop a quick line and say that all of your dedication and hard work is appreciated. The collaboration with other members of the community in coming together to get this awesome mod working is what makes the KSP community generally far and above anything else. There are of course exceptions to this, but good on you for ignoring the unappreciative, entitled children. Anyway, thanks again to you and everyone that tested and continue to make this game changing module a working reality.

I agree, Sirkut has done some heavy lifting in the past month. A big thanks to him for his unconditional support and dedication. Also to Omgnull, thanks for your initiative and for your indispensable aid to this mod. Without your collaboration, we still would be sending pretzels into space.

To everyone else who helped in testing and making this possible, my thanks go to you.

There are some bright minds coming in and out of this thread. I hope you all get the chance to help and inspire others on your journeys through this wonderful thing called KSP.

Edited April 22, 2014 by Prowler_x1

[sirkut]

That made me laugh so hard!

I know that the docking issue has been mentioned before but I just wanted to document it now.

Here is a mockup of my fuel rover using stock parts instead of interstellar parts. Sorry, I don't really have the HD space for a 4th clean install of this game (should probably just remove the others).

http://i.imgur.com/lVOA3BH.jpg

IR stuff works perfectly at first. Pistons move in and out together. Hinges move in unison.

http://i.imgur.com/R78ADgK.jpg

Docking successful!

http://i.imgur.com/8ugJPCw.jpg

When I undock but the piston is locked. It moves a little bit but doesn't telescope properly. Sometimes some of the piston stages lock while others retract. This also breaks the two hinges, (the shoulder and the wrist). They no longer operate at full speed or in unison. The shoulder hinge also seems to be turned nearly 90 deg, and the claw doesn't stay centered on the wrist hinge.

http://i.imgur.com/J4XSvHh.jpg

Still, great job on the new release guys. Your work is greatly appreciated.

Craft file: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2K2XVlOvk62TEFrQjV2SEZicUU/edit?usp=sharing

To recreate the issue just load two of ^^those^^ and stab one with the pointy end of the other.

Never mind. Try the test again on your end and let me know how it works out for you. keep the group names the same on both craft.

Edited April 22, 2014 by sirkut

[Sean Mirrsen]

I don't suppose I am the only one who thinks that the current parts look excruciatingly out of place on a stock KSP craft? Is there an art pass somewhere in the nebulous plans for the future?

...

Failing that, is there anything specific to this mod that one would need to know to make an art pass?

And good job on the upgrade! It's good to see this mod working again.

[sirkut]

I don't suppose I am the only one who thinks that the current parts look excruciatingly out of place on a stock KSP craft? Is there an art pass somewhere in the nebulous plans for the future?

...

Failing that, is there anything specific to this mod that one would need to know to make an art pass?

And good job on the upgrade! It's good to see this mod working again.

Rant removed.

ZodiusInfuser is working on one. Offer your help if you can. I don't do graphics well, this was my first real project.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/65365-WIP-MSI-s-Infernal-Robotics-Model-Rework

Edited April 22, 2014 by sirkut

[sirkut]

removed comment.

Edited April 22, 2014 by sirkut

[Wyrmshadow]

Replacing the folder with the update. If you can replicate a bug using stock parts it would help in finding the problem and post the craft file otherwise I'm not going to know how to fix it.

I was unable to replicate the turning problem with stock parts. The gantry/rail problem is still the same. I had used the same subassembly as when I built it previously when it worked, but now the rail moves in the other direction from the gantry, as I wrote previously. Perhaps the direction of the gantry was switched during the rewrite. Or maybe I can do something with the cfg file to reverse the direction? (trying now, switching the translate from up/down.. I'm just guessing here.)

EDIT: I tried reversing the translate, nothing. I tried reversing the min/max values so Max was now negative and Min was positive: Broke it. So blind cfg fiddling was a failure.

The issue with the docking washer: Before 23.5, it turned the capsule(only) just fine. Now the capsule remains motionless while the washer tries to move the entire ship instead. I tried to replicate this only stock parts and using giant(ugly)Rockomax decoupler but there was no problem. Capsule rotated with no problem and everything below stayed motionless. If you look at my previous image, there are struts connecting the service module part (Odin) just below the washer to the decoupler below it. Perhaps there is some issue with Novapunch's Odin parts and decouplers. When I try to rotate the washer, the struts are being stretched. I added the struts long ago because the connection between the Odin trunk and the decoupler below it seemed to be too weak, it would break on launch.

TLDR: I tried to replicate everything using stock only, but could not find the same problems. sharing the original subassembly would add mods you might not have. So no craft file upload

Not taking anything away from all the hard work you've put in since 23.5

Edited April 22, 2014 by Wyrmshadow

[sirkut]

I was unable to replicate the turning problem with stock parts. The gantry/rail problem is still the same. I had used the same subassembly as when I built it previously when it worked, but now the rail moves in the other direction from the gantry, as I wrote previously. Perhaps the direction of the gantry was switched during the rewrite. Or maybe I can do something with the cfg file to reverse the direction? (trying now, switching the translate from up/down.. I'm just guessing here.)

The issue with the docking washer: Before 23.5, it turned the capsule(only) just fine. Now the capsule remains motionless while the washer tries to move the entire ship instead. I tried to replicate this only stock parts and using giant(ugly)Rockomax decoupler but there was no problem. Capsule rotated with no problem and everything below stayed motionless. If you look at my previous image, there are struts connecting the service module part (Odin) just below the washer to the decoupler below it. Perhaps there is some issue with Novapunch's Odin parts and decouplers. When I try to rotate the washer, the struts are being stretched. I added the struts long ago because the connection between the Odin trunk and the decoupler below it seemed to be too weak, it would break on launch.

TLDR: I tried to replicate everything using stock only, but could not find the same problems. sharing the original subassembly would add mods you might not have. So no craft file upload

Not taking anything away from all the hard work you've put in since 23.5

If you could tell me the mods you have, I'll download them and try your craft out. I don't mind testing it just makes it easier for me.

[Wyrmshadow]

If you could tell me the mods you have, I'll download them and try your craft out. I don't mind testing it just makes it easier for me.

I've got 83 folders in my GameData root. It would be too much to ask to try and track things down. Even working halfway for the gantries is better than nothing at all. In the future I'll just have to rebuild my ships (800 part monster LOL!) with newer parts.

[sirkut]

I've got 83 folders in my GameData root. It would be too much to ask to try and track things down. Even working halfway for the gantries is better than nothing at all. In the future I'll just have to rebuild my ships (800 part monster LOL!) with newer parts.

Drat. If there weren't licensing restrictions I would write a utility that would parse a craft file and pull all the files necessary to load just that craft. Some issues implementing it as well but one can dream right?

[Atrius129]

Never mind. Try the test again on your end and let me know how it works out for you. keep the group names the same on both craft.

Wow. Pretty much totally fixed. You guys amaze me.

Hinges and pistons all work on undock (claw).

I tried over hyper-extending one of the pistons by having one of them be fully depressed and continuing to retract & vise versa. Couldn't break it.

(Looks pretty uncomfortable for the front rover, I know)

I was able to have both craft close to each other, stationary with brakes on, and use the arm to dock them together.

I was even able to align the craft and drive around like a train.

There was only one time where I had an issue. I couldn't replicate it, and of course I can't find the screenies I thought I had taken. The pistons were different lengths and docked when I quicksaved. When I reloaded they had the same issues we had been dealing with recently. That craft was shot so I retrieved it to try to duplicate the bug. After that, quicksaves loaded fine even when pistons were different lengths and servo groups had the same names. I can't figure out what broke it that one time. I would advice caution when quicksaving docked craft that use similar servo names or have servos set at different states.

ALSO, I know this probably isn't an IR issue but I discovered that you do NOT want to dock a rover into another open claw, unless you want to see the seedy blue underbelly of Kerbin. Make sure the docking is done with the armed claw of the active ship. Not one that is standing by. Here I found it by backing into the open claw of the rear rover. The world went black and my little claw rovers were cast into the realm of Cthulhu.

Everything else worked perfectly.

KSP 0.23.5 IR 0.14 stable

Edited April 22, 2014 by Atrius129