Not using atomics

[0x7be]

Hello.

Right now I'am "roleplaying" my space program, and according to my own scenario my Kerbals still do not have atomic engines.

So I send only conventionally powered ships and probes to space (Isp <= 390s).

I just wonder, how far you guys got in Kerbol system without using atomic engines and other advanced methods (like ion engines, Kethane mining, etc)?

[StainX]

With docking and maybe some Kethane mining you also should get anywhere you want to

[stupid_chris]

Minmus. Seriously it's not worth it getting any farther other way, excepted if you're ready to pack more than twice the fuel. Good luck if you're gonna try that!

[0x7be]

With docking and maybe some Kethane mining you also should get anywhere you want to

Absolutely true

That's why I ruled Kethane out in my question

[Scotius]

Then you are a masochist And i salute your determination. I've seen some mission reports where people got to Duna without using atomic engines, so at least that is possible. Anything further? Maybe Eve, though it requires more dV to counter higher orbital velocity. Moho? Not without ridiculously huge amount of fuel due to even higher orbital velocity and inclination. Dres - orbit is uncomfortably inclined. Jool is far away. Eeloo even farther AND inclined. I'm afraid you will have to dock together humongous motherships. Or send very lightweight crafts. Or sending backup tankers everywhere. Or all at once.

[regex]

Confirming that Duna is pretty easy without atomics; in fact, I prefer doing without because the burn times are stupid. My Duna transfer vehicle has a single -45 and works well. I haven't tried for elsewhere quite yet.

[Mrbowdn]

You can get far out past the orbit of jool and leave the system without using nuclear or ion engines its easy

[Domfluff]

I've used ion engine-powered probes to get everywhere, and my first successful Duna return did it all on a single LV-909 (Duna orbit rendezvous).

I try not to use NTR engines as much as possible - it's more of a challenge, and having the extra thrust does help.

Edited July 4, 2013 by Domfluff

[Synapse]

I left the solar system before I discovered atomic engines. Burning specifically to other planets requires more fuel though.

[Mrbowdn]

If u do the burn right and aero brake it takes less fuel to get to other planets then leave the system and is completely possible without nuclear engines

[Azivegu]

I actually dont use nervas all to much, which is a shame because I actually made a Nerva that uses nuclear fuel, and after going through all that trouble, I should at least use it...

[0x7be]

Then you are a masochist And i salute your determination. I've seen some mission reports where people got to Duna without using atomic engines, so at least that is possible. Anything further? Maybe Eve, though it requires more dV to counter higher orbital velocity. Moho? Not without ridiculously huge amount of fuel due to even higher orbital velocity and inclination. Dres - orbit is uncomfortably inclined. Jool is far away. Eeloo even farther AND inclined. I'm afraid you will have to dock together humongous motherships. Or send very lightweight crafts. Or sending backup tankers everywhere. Or all at once.

Actually, I'am colinizing Eve now.

Well, I don't want to go all the way with chemical engines only I just want to add some challenge on first steps of space exploration.

[0x7be]

You can get far out past the orbit of jool and leave the system without using nuclear or ion engines its easy

And then return little green guys back?

After all, for little probes you can HUGE delta-v with basic engines.

[entaran]

I don't use nerva's at all cause I hate the amount of thrust they don't generate. I don't even care about the efficiency. It's still ridiculously easy to get to eeloo, it doesn't change much at all beyond you need to send probe tankers after your main flights cause getting home again almost always requires a refuel of some sort.

[Canopus]

Manned only to Minmus, Unmanned you don't need the LV-N.

[0x7be]

I actually dont use nervas all to much, which is a shame because I actually made a Nerva that uses nuclear fuel, and after going through all that trouble, I should at least use it...

I think "right" way of using them is to fit on reusable never-landing vessels, like orbital tugs or interplanetary transfer stages.

All lander and expendable crafts should use conventional engines.

[0x7be]

Manned only to Minmus, Unmanned you don't need the LV-N.

I've successfully got men to Eve and back, although I had to sent special tanker beforehand to supply them fuel for back transfer.

Used Merlin Vacuum from KerbalX pack.

[Krizzen]

, you could get to any planet and back with less than 2000 delta-V from LKO. The only requirements are extreme patience and a very thorough grasp of orbital mechanics/maneuvers.

[0x7be]

, you could get to any planet and back with less than 2000 delta-V from LKO. The only requirements are extreme patience and a very thorough grasp of orbital mechanics/maneuvers.

Usually I'am short on patience

[katateochi]

In a recent mission I sent two heavy unmanned craft (~55ton payloads + 75ton transfer-stage) and one heavy manned craft (50ton craft + 78ton transfer-stage) to Duna. The manned craft used 3 LV-N's and required a 15 min burn for transfer, but I wanted the two unmanned craft to depart for Duna at ruffly the same time so they needed shorter burn times. They both used 3 LV-T45's which required a ~3min burn so the 2nd craft was able to depart LKO shortly after the first one (and ended up getting to Duna first). It did require one of the larger tanks from the KW rocketry pack to fuel the T45's to go in one direction whereas the manned craft was able to go and return using the same fuel tank.

[SRV Ron]

One has to balance the efficiency of lifting into orbit an LV-909 weighing 1/2 a ton VS lifting 2.25 tons for the higher efficiency atomic engine and pushing its much heavier mass around for long burns. My 4 stage Nova probe has left the Kerbal system using three LV-909 on stage three containing three FL -T800 fuel tanks and I still had a fourth stage using an LV-909 and a FL-T800 fuel tank. I find that it makes little difference in range as pushing the additional mass of the atomic engine on such probes cancels out its efficiency on long burns.

[sgt_flyer]

You can also do multi-stage transfers - but it requires thorough planning if you want your first transfer stage to be able to go back to kerbin SOI after jetisonning it at mid transfer burn and be able to reuse it. Basically, your first stage will bring you mid or 2/3 of your transfer burn, you decouple it and let it return to kerbin, while your second stage has enough d/v to finish the transfer burn and for the return trip.

[Scotius]

Yeah, it boils down to Efficiency vs. Expediency. I use nuclear engines on all kinds of tankers and orbital tugs. Burns are longer, but i save fuel this way. My only conventional tug uses the Poodle - it goes around fast and can wrestle huge obiects, but usually i have to tap into payload's fuel reserves to not get stranded at the last leg of the transfer.

[leax256]

Minmus. Seriously it's not worth it getting any farther other way, excepted if you're ready to pack more than twice the fuel. Good luck if you're gonna try that!

actually, law of diminishing return would put the needed fuel greater than 2, maybe 3-4.

[joppiesaus]

With the skipper to gilly! Seriously, only with skippers. Piece of cake.