Not using atomics

[0x7be]

You can also do multi-stage transfers - but it requires thorough planning if you want your first transfer stage to be able to go back to kerbin SOI after jetisonning it at mid transfer burn and be able to reuse it. Basically, your first stage will bring you mid or 2/3 of your transfer burn, you decouple it and let it return to kerbin, while your second stage has enough d/v to finish the transfer burn and for the return trip.

Now I'am running interplanetary missions from my Minimus refuelling outpost. It is pretty far, near Kerbin SOI boundary.

But using Minimus as jumping point saves me nearly 1 km/s of delta-v

Edited July 4, 2013 by 0x7be

[0x7be]

With the skipper to gilly! Seriously, only with skippers. Piece of cake.

Nice engine, but currently I prefer Merlin Vacuum from KerbalX

[Hiddos]

I launched this beast to Jool http://puu.sh/2v07b

On top are 6 'probes', one of them landed on Laythe, one is now orbiting Jool and the other 4 have increased the mass of each of Jool's moon by a few kilograms

[0x7be]

I launched this beast to Jool http://puu.sh/2v07b

On top are 6 'probes', one of them landed on Laythe, one is now orbiting Jool and the other 4 have increased the mass of each of Jool's moon by a few kilograms

Wow!

What mass has actually arrived system of Jool?

[jwenting]

it's actually possible to go to Eve on a single aerospike and land a Kerbal there. Of course it's a one way trip, you run out of fuel on the intercept burn.

And others I know have managed to get further than that, Laythe should I think be possible if you get lucky with the planetary alignments.

[0x7be]

it's actually possible to go to Eve on a single aerospike and land a Kerbal there. Of course it's a one way trip, you run out of fuel on the intercept burn.

And others I know have managed to get further than that, Laythe should I think be possible if you get lucky with the planetary alignments.

Well, using staged designs you can get almost any delta-v with conventional engines, but vessel mass should grow exponentially.

[Rocket Farmer]

Well personally I use nukes for my transfer stages, descenders and teturn stages and am now starting to use ants and 24-77s for my ascender stages off of planets.

However if you check the aerospike engine challenge a guy managed to do a grand tour using only a single aerospike engine from the lift-off pad (no refueling). His kerbal made it home afterward however he had a pretty good understanding of orbital mechanics a la voyager style.

Also in that challenge several people landed on Duna, Eve, etc using only a single aerospike.

[jwenting]

Well, using staged designs you can get almost any delta-v with conventional engines, but vessel mass should grow exponentially.

using staged designs you're still limited to the max thrust of your engines, which determines the max weight you can lift.

Adding more stages adds weight, it becomes a balancing act between needing to pull empty tanks along for the flight vs. carrying more decouplers to drop them.

[ASnogarD]

I would imagine with docking and fuel transfers one should be able to get anywhere in the system, just a case of how much time and effort you are willing to use.

I mean, put up a station in LKO, send up huge fuel reserves, send up parts of the interplanetary vessel , send up unmanned re-fuelling vessels, send up unmanned lander carriers... send fuel and lander carriers ahead (or even with your interplanetary vessel ) ... get the fleet to your target destination orbit, EVA crew to the lander carrier and land, refuel interplanetary vessel, get lander back to orbit, EVA crew back to vessel ... return.

Lots of work and effort, but not impossible...just tedious I would imagine.

[stupid_chris]

actually, law of diminishing return would put the needed fuel greater than 2, maybe 3-4.

I know, and that's why I said "more than twice the fuel" lol.

[Rocket Farmer]

Ok here is how I would do if I was you. Go really light.

Total to lift to LKO orbit 23.15 tonne.

Transfer stage

11.25 t of fuel, 1 aerospike 1.5 t, and a payload of return craft 3.0 t, lander/ascender 6.7 t and a satelite at .25 t). Total mass of 22.75 with DV of 2200 and TWR of .77. Can orbit anywhere but eeloo & Moho.

Satellite

1 torp fuel .136 t, probe/power/comm .085 t, ant motor .03. Total mass .251 t. DV of 1700 and TWR of .6

Lander/ascender

Fuel 2.25 t, 4 24-77s .36 t, 1 rover 2 t, structure 1.6 t, payload ascender .5 t. DV of 1041, TWC 1.21. Can't land on tylo or vall, use parachutes in atmospheres.

Planet Ascender stage

2 torps fuel, .272 t, 1 24-77, .09, 1 seat/kerbal .14 total mass .5. DV of 1718 and TWR 4. Can't lift-off tylo, eve.

Return Craft (ascender rendezvous in orbit for kerbal transfer). Fuel 2.25 t, 2 24-77s .18 t, lander can .6 t. Total mass 3 t. DV 3,063 and TWR 1.35.

So that has good DVs, good TWR, can go everywhere but eve, tylo, vall and eeloo and has a rover and a satellite to boot.

[Fel]

using staged designs you're still limited to the max thrust of your engines, which determines the max weight you can lift.

Adding more stages adds weight, it becomes a balancing act between needing to pull empty tanks along for the flight vs. carrying more decouplers to drop them.

That's bullocks, decouplers will always be lighter than a "practical" empty tank, and once you get to rockmax it is zero thought. Decouple or lose massive delta-v.

There is no "balancing act", you can literally get any delta-v you want; and if you don't do silly asparagus builds, you can get that delta-v extremely easy.

[Kerbol Prime]

I don't use nerva's at all cause I hate the amount of thrust they don't generate. I don't even care about the efficiency. It's still ridiculously easy to get to eeloo, it doesn't change much at all beyond you need to send probe tankers after your main flights cause getting home again almost always requires a refuel of some sort.

I agree, the atomic rockets are quit weak. I usually have to put on phys. warp to get transfers in a reasonable time.

PS. NTRs (nuc. thermal rocket) not NERVA. Nervas were part of NASA's project, and I'm pretty sure kerbal engines were not made by NASA.

[Giggleplex777]

I don't like using NTRs and I've done a tour of the inner Jool system (Laythe, Vall, Tylo) with this little rocket:

Javascript is disabled. View full album

^I forgot to take a screenshot of flying by Vall but I did.

I could have gone farther if I was patient enough to do slingshots around other planets.

Edited July 4, 2013 by Giggleplex777

[Mephane]

I think "right" way of using them is to fit on reusable never-landing vessels, like orbital tugs or interplanetary transfer stages.

All lander and expendable crafts should use conventional engines.

You can totally land on and take off from Duna using only LVNs, launching from Duna is very easy to do even in SSTO fashion, its atmosphere is so thin that you still have a higher ISP on the ground than any other engine (except ion, which has too little TWR however) has in space.

[stupid_chris]

I don't like using NTRs and I've done a tour of the inner Jool system (Laythe, Vall, Tylo) with this little rocket:

-snip-

^I forgot to take a screenshot of flying by Vall but I did.

I could have gone farther if I was patient enough to do slingshots around other planets.

Dude I'll never get how you manage to put things like that together. Your mini mania is getting on me.

[Superseaslug]

I've easily made it to Duna/Eve and back with plenty of fuel left over without using nuclear engines.

But when it comes down to it, waiting for the transfer period is much more excruciating than waiting for the burn to finish. I simply play in windowed mode and watch YouTube while I wait.

[rryy]

I've made a one-way manned landing on Duna without the LV-N engine. I also got to Laythe, and escaped the solar system using a failed Mun lander.

[Xeldrak]

You can get everywhere you want on conventional rocket engines. My First 'capital' ship went to jool on four poodle engines. Just a few days ago I sent a mapping probe to Moho on a single LV-909 engines with several droptanks.

[Joshington]

I've gotten out of the Kerbin system without atomics, but I've never tried NOT using atomics before. I think I could get a probe to Duna or Eve.

[SRV Ron]

You can almost double the burn time using the atomic rocket engine, but, keep in mind that you are now pushing an extra 1.75 tons of inertia from launch up to its use. That extra mass can easily offset the nearly double efficiency during extended exploration.