[1.2] Procedural Fairings 3.20 (November 8)

[NathanKell]

The stage _is_ the fairing you place around the interstage. That's the point of the interstage--what you place on the top node is supported only by the fairings.

[Motokid600]

Well I'm making an Apollo style craft where the fairing covers only the lander and stops at the bottom of the CM leaving it exposed at the top and it looks great....I don't quite understand. What's the point of the interstage if it severs the payload when I jettison the fairings? Id use the other base rings, but they can only cover the entire craft, no? Any solution?

[Alfondoo]

I don't quite understand. What's the point of the interstage if it severs the payload when I jettison the fairings? Id use the other base rings, but they can only cover the entire craft, no? Any solution?

Try using this technique. It looks messy in the VAB but it works

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Or am I not understanding?

[Motokid600]

Try using this technique. It looks messy in the VAB but it works

Or am I not understanding?

Hm not quite.

Heres a few pics.

I just need these fairings to separate without taking the payload with it..

[jrandom]

I just need these fairings to separate without taking the payload with it..

That's not possible with the interstage (as it stands right now). If you want fairings to come off they way you want, you'll have to use the two-fairing-bases technique posted above, and add your own stack decouplers on the inside. On a positive node, the two fairing bases can be of different sizes, so you can use a smaller one for the upper flipped-upsidedown fairing base:

Edit: If you want the payload to stay with the lower stage, you can attach a decoupler and then the payload to the inner connection joint on top of the interstage base, as only the upper floating joint decouples when the interstage is triggered.

Edited September 15, 2013 by jrandom

[Motokid600]

That's not possible with the interstage (as it stands right now). If you want fairings to come off they way you want, you'll have to use the two-fairing-bases technique posted above, and add your own stack decouplers on the inside. On a positive node, the two fairing bases can be of different sizes, so you can use a smaller one for the upper flipped-upsidedown fairing base:

Edit: If you want the payload to stay with the lower stage, you can attach a decoupler and then the payload to the inner connection joint on top of the interstage base, as only the upper floating joint decouples when the interstage is triggered.

The interstage ring has two center attachment nodes. One is floating. The other is a smaller node below it. Is this the node you speak of? Because I can't for the life of me get anything to attach to it. Only the floating node and fairing nodes work with me.

If I can't get this to work then I guess I gotta ditch the fairings. I don't want to split my payload in half. Then later when I go to dock the CM to the LM I gotta deal with this ring in the way.

Edit: jrandom on the upper part of that craft you posted there how did you get the fairing to do that? Because that is a regular base ring if I'm seeing correctly. The one below it is the interstage.

Edited September 15, 2013 by Motokid600

[NathanKell]

Make the ring really big (so the nodes are well-separated). Then rotate your view to 45 degrees off-axis, so there's no fairing-attach node "behind" that fairing-base node you're trying to attach to. Also make the floating node way higher with H first so it doesn't interfere either. Then attach your payload, then rescale (with H and N) to taste.

You want:

CSM

Add interstage, attach float node to CSM

Press H to lengthen

Then follow above steps to attach a decoupler to the fairing base node

Then build your LM

Then put fairings on, and build your rocket under the interstage.

[Mod lover]

Hey guys. I made a account to ask this ( I didn't make one as the mod with the monkey avatar scares me) but I need help.

I have install this into my main ksp on stream and loaded an existing game. I landed a satellight use the fairing and then another one to connect to to it. But when I targeted it (they didn't have e fairings still on) it did not highlight it in green or gray and I could not see how far away with it.

[Motokid600]

Make the ring really big (so the nodes are well-separated). Then rotate your view to 45 degrees off-axis, so there's no fairing-attach node "behind" that fairing-base node you're trying to attach to. Also make the floating node way higher with H first so it doesn't interfere either. Then attach your payload, then rescale (with H and N) to taste.

You want:

CSM

Add interstage, attach float node to CSM

Press H to lengthen

Then follow above steps to attach a decoupler to the fairing base node

Then build your LM

Then put fairings on, and build your rocket under the interstage.

Damn..close, but no cigar. That worked Nahtan, but it just does this now..

Some tweaking...I cant get it it to touch the base of the pod.

What a headache over something so trivial... why cant stuff just WORK? Lol... story of my life.

[jrandom]

The interstage ring has two center attachment nodes. One is floating. The other is a smaller node below it. Is this the node you speak of? Because I can't for the life of me get anything to attach to it. Only the floating node and fairing nodes work with me..

I've not had any trouble with that inner node. Use 'H' to move the floating node upwards to get some room between it and the inner node. I often put things like SAS torque wheel and RCS fuel in there when used as a normal interstage.

In that rocket I posted, the upper section is basically a fuselage (non-decoupling). The small fairing base ring at the top is flipped upside down and the lower, larger base ring is right-side-up. The fuselage sides are attached to the lower ring.

The interstage beneath the lander is used as a normal decouplilng interstage, with 'H' used to set the height all the way down -- the lander is attached to the decoupling floating node.

Here's another example of using two fairing bases (the top one flipped upside down) to hold a payload stage. Note the decoupler attached to the top of the lower fairing base ring:

Edited September 15, 2013 by jrandom

[Motokid600]

Thanks jrandom I got it to attach to the base node, but now the fairings are outta wack if you can see in my previous post.

[NathanKell]

You can mess with H, Y, and R to try to make it work, but yes, it's a problem. There's no real way to adjust the height of where the curve inward starts--see my request upthread. Because under some circumstances R will do that, IF the payload is narrower than the base...but R usually adjusts the bulge _outward_, not upward.

You see the same thing in regular procfairings: when width is already minimal, R adjusts height.

Oh, one other thing. You _might_ have better luck with the egg, not the cone.

So...e-dog...any chance of a height-of-inward-curve-start adjustment key? That wold be supremely helpful both for interstage and for regular fairings.

[Motokid600]

I am using the egg. I think what I have to do is attach the CM to the floating decouple node then mess with H, Y and R. Then just decouple after the ejection burn.

[Galacticruler]

Just a suggestion, but could you look into making your invisible struts cement the payload in place?

it is rather annoying when my payload bangs into the fairings and the fairings shrug off all damage, where-as the payload becomes rather banged up.

[Starwaster]

I am using the egg. I think what I have to do is attach the CM to the floating decouple node then mess with H, Y and R. Then just decouple after the ejection burn.

Something's been puzzling me, following the whole interstage issue. Just to be clear, you're trying to duplicate the way upperstage of a Saturn V was arranged, right? Upper stage with lander inside fairing and command module on top.

If so, that should totally be working for you without having to do extra rings on top.

I'm having some trouble making out from your pictures exactly where you're placing things with regards to attachment nodes but (and some of this you probably already know, sorry, but let's take it from the beginning) the interstage ring has two nodes (actually three but we're ignoring the one on the very bottom that your lower stage connects to).

One on the top surface of the interstage ring base. The other floats above and you can raise the height of that upper node.

Your payload needs to be on the lower of those two nodes, the fixed one on the interstage base. Attach it by your payload's bottom-most node (the engine)

The bottom of the command craft (its engine node) needs to connect to the floating node (you can raise the floating node by pressing H)

Now, with regards to decoupling. Only the floating node decouples. The fixed node on the base does not decouple at all so the only way your payload should even be able to decouple is if you attached a separate decoupler/separator ring to it.

Below are some pictures of a simplified arrangement. This is how you want to do interstage. The payload is the one sitting on the base. It's not coming loose no matter how I stage it because it has no decoupler ring. For a real craft you want a decoupler under your payload. If you arrange the staging right then it won't come loose then, either unless it breaks loose.

Sorry they're kind of spammy, I suck at resizing these things

All attached

top-most craft separated

payload separated

Edited September 15, 2013 by Starwaster

[Motokid600]

Just a suggestion, but could you look into making your invisible struts cement the payload in place?

it is rather annoying when my payload bangs into the fairings and the fairings shrug off all damage, where-as the payload becomes rather banged up.

I'm guessing this is for e-dog? With auto struts on everything should be solid.

Starwaster, jrandom, Nathan, and anyone else thank you for all your insight. I ultimately attached the CM engine to the floating node. It worked. Id rather see the fairings detach THEN detach the CM to then dock with the LM, but this way will have to do. It just sucks because ill have to decouple the fairings after the ejection burn ( like Saturn V ) and doom them to interstellar space for the rest of time. I like to detatch them before orbital velocity is achieved, but if I do that now I will not be going to space lol. All this is for an extensive Minmus mission.

[NathanKell]

You're welcome!

You could do transposition/docking without extraction, before circularization. Then they'll burn up. (Decouple the fairings but not the decoupler attaching the LM to the interstage.)

Or you could use your TMI to put you on an intercept course and blow the fairings only when very near, hopefully they'll be sucked into the moon, and use your SPS to burn enough away for an orbit.

But yeah, I too want an option for decoupling to be separated from fairing jettison--in my case the reverse, so the fairings will stay attached after decoupling the interstage.

[CalculusWarrior]

You're welcome! :)You could do transposition/docking without extraction, before circularization. Then they'll burn up. (Decouple the fairings but not the decoupler attaching the LM to the interstage.)Or you could use your TMI to put you on an intercept course and blow the fairings only when very near, hopefully they'll be sucked into the moon, and use your SPS to burn enough away for an orbit.But yeah, I too want an option for decoupling to be separated from fairing jettison--in my case the reverse, so the fairings will stay attached after decoupling the interstage.

If you put the interstage upside down higher up on your rocket, you can do that quite easily. Problem is, you will have the interstage ring attached to your rocket throughout the entire flight.

[HeadHunter67]

the interstage ring has two nodes (actually three but we're ignoring the one on the very bottom that your lower stage connects to).

One on the top surface of the interstage ring base. The other floats above and you can raise the height of that upper node.

Your payload needs to be on the lower of those two nodes, the fixed one on the interstage base. Attach it by your payload's bottom-most node

So the lander goes directly onto the base (well, on a decoupler that then goes directly onto the base), and the CSM goes on the floating node?

Thank you so much - this has been the problem I've been having from the start. I guess I wasn't articulating my issue well enough, but this approach sounds like it will be the solution. I'll go give it a try.

[Starwaster]

I'm guessing this is for e-dog? With auto struts on everything should be solid.

Starwaster, jrandom, Nathan, and anyone else thank you for all your insight. I ultimately attached the CM engine to the floating node. It worked. Id rather see the fairings detach THEN detach the CM to then dock with the LM, but this way will have to do. It just sucks because ill have to decouple the fairings after the ejection burn ( like Saturn V ) and doom them to interstellar space for the rest of time. I like to detatch them before orbital velocity is achieved, but if I do that now I will not be going to space lol. All this is for an extensive Minmus mission.

Actually there's a good chance they'll impact the moon.

Or, as you say, they might end up in interstellar space. Or at least Kerbol space.

Every now and then I see debris outside of Kerbin's SOI and I haven't the foggiest notion how they got that far out

So the lander goes directly onto the base (well, on a decoupler that then goes directly onto the base), and the CSM goes on the floating node?

Thank you so much - this has been the problem I've been having from the start. I guess I wasn't articulating my issue well enough, but this approach sounds like it will be the solution. I'll go give it a try.

no problem!

[viperwolf]

you guys are great, Im learning so much just reading your conversation

[HeadHunter67]

Well, Starwaster, that absolutely nailed all the issues I've been having with an Apollo-style payload bay. Set it up as you advised and took up a few test flights. Once I got the setup worked out, everything went smoothly from there.

...well, at least as smoothly as anything does in KSP. First test separated the fairings during the coast to Kerbin apoapsis, leaving the CSM drifting ahead of the rocket on a ballistic arc. For kicks, I decided to try and dock the CSM to the lander before everything fell back to the surface. I did it, so the mission wasn't a complete waste!

Once I figured out the proper staging and made orbit, I practiced the LM extraction in Kerbin orbit - whereupon I learned that you cannot do a trans-Münar insertion with the CSM docked to the LM, because the thrust will crush the lander.

But now my failures are of the more traditional variety - that is to say, refining the construction of the rocket and the proper way to conduct maneuvers. So now that you have helped me figure out the interstage fairings, I can concentrate on that!

[Dunbaratu]

Should solar panels work when inside of fairing shrouds?

I just noticed that my batteries recharge from my solar panels even when the fairing containing them hasn't been opened yet and there shouldn't be any sunlight reaching the payload bay.

[e-dog]

Should solar panels work when inside of fairing shrouds?

I just noticed that my batteries recharge from my solar panels even when the fairing containing them hasn't been opened yet and there shouldn't be any sunlight reaching the payload bay.

Yes, because solar panels don't know anything about being shrouded by fairings. I'm not going to fix solar panels code, sorry

[Jasmir]

But solarpanels actual knows, if they are covered by something. Shouldn't fairings work at the same way?