[1.0.5] TAC Life Support v0.11.2.1 [12Dec]

[Starstrider42]

Hi,

I'm a little confused about how this mod works when a vessel is inactive. Specifically, the status window says that my space station has enough electricity to keep the crew alive for only 20 hours, and it counts down the time as I do other things. However, in reality the station has a basically unlimited supply of electricity, even with a full crew and all recyclers, etc. running. Do I still need to focus on the station once every 20 hours to reset the clock, or will the game avoid killing them even if it claims (incorrectly) that the power's run out?

[GavinZac]

Hi,

I'm a little confused about how this mod works when a vessel is inactive. Specifically, the status window says that my space station has enough electricity to keep the crew alive for only 20 hours, and it counts down the time as I do other things. However, in reality the station has a basically unlimited supply of electricity, even with a full crew and all recyclers, etc. running. Do I still need to focus on the station once every 20 hours to reset the clock, or will the game avoid killing them even if it claims (incorrectly) that the power's run out?

The status thing seems to assume the worst, but won't kill the Kerbals, AFAIK. When you refocus the craft, it seems to do a quick check and recalculates the electricity (and everything else). I can't test this at the moment as I'm playing with Permadeath.

[GavinZac]

I get a lot of spam when entering any scene:

Tac.AddLifeSupport[3909B000][330.12]: The LifeSupportModule is missing!

(Filename: C:/BuildAgent/work/ea95e74f6e5f192d/Runtime/ExportGenerated/StandalonePlayer/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 54)

Tac.AddLifeSupport[3909B000][330.12]: Error adding the Part Module (expected?): Object reference not set to an instance of an object
  at PartModule.Load (.ConfigNode node) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

  at Part.AddModule (.ConfigNode node) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

  at Tac.AddLifeSupport.AddPartModule (.Part part) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

I'm not sure what this error indicates, but it sure makes my out_put.log nice and big. I don't seem to be getting actual behaviour bugs but it's not encouraging in a 'deadly' mod!

[Horus]

I'm not sure what this error indicates, but it sure makes my out_put.log nice and big. I don't seem to be getting actual behavior bugs but it's not encouraging in a 'deadly' mod!

Same here, man.

It just makes a little bit concerned, for, there's a possibility to have a crucial mission reverted due to some mod issue which is not revealed at the moment.

Edited February 24, 2014 by Horus

[SkyHook]

I have tried to get these alternate textures going for about 2 hours now and I've given up. Can anyone help me with the filestructure? What am I supposed to do? I am trying to install the textures from jfjohnny. I have tried looking around in the forums but to no avail.

[Beetlecat]

I have tried to get these alternate textures going for about 2 hours now and I've given up. Can anyone help me with the filestructure? What am I supposed to do? I am trying to install the textures from jfjohnny. I have tried looking around in the forums but to no avail.

Hi SkyHook -- I'm using them, and got them to work the first time, but you do need to nuke the files mentioned in the included Texture Install Readme in the root of the archive. The "ThunderAerospace" folder goes straight into the gamedata folder, merging into the existing folder. You then need to tunnel in and remove the .tga files that have the same names as the ones in the pack. It's a pain for sure, but worth it for the improved appearance.

[SkyHook]

Hi SkyHook -- I'm using them, and got them to work the first time, but you do need to nuke the files mentioned in the included Texture Install Readme in the root of the archive. The "ThunderAerospace" folder goes straight into the gamedata folder, merging into the existing folder. You then need to tunnel in and remove the .tga files that have the same names as the ones in the pack. It's a pain for sure, but worth it for the improved appearance.

....I swear I did that 7 times last night...I do it tonight and it works first time...lol. Thanks man.

[Beetlecat]

....I swear I did that 7 times last night...I do it tonight and it works first time...lol. Thanks man.

Yay!

It's just like always finding things in the *last* place you look.

[TheDude]

Greetings,

Can someone clarify just how TAC resources are added to command pods? The source of my confusion is there is a module manager config file included in the mod that adds a module, "LifeSupportModule" as well as the TAC resources to the stock cockpits. I generally don't use any of thst stock parts instead choosing to use stuff from B9 for my ships. These B9 cockpits always have the TAC resources added to them but when I check the part in the debug menu it does not contain the LifeSupportModule module.

How are TAC resources being added to other commands pods? Is the DLL looking for minimum crew or modulecommand and adding the resources based upon that? What does LifeSupportModule do? Does it need to be added to other command pods?

Best regards,

The Dude

[Aknar]

Yes, the mod looks for parts that are manned to add this module in along with enough ressources for the crew (depending on it's number) to last for a day. It's considered in-game but isn't added to the stockpartchange.cfg. If you want to change the values, you just have to add the part manually in this .cfg file (so that the game will find these parts and won't have to attribute anything to it). The life support module is what makes the parts need these ressources and drain them. Without them, you just have a rsevoir part the stocks those ressources for other parts of the vessel with kerbals there to use them.

To add a capsule (if the mod doesn't do it itself), open the stockpartchanges.cfg with notepad++ and add at the bottom:

@PART[the name that the part has [COLOR=#b22222]IN IT's .CFG FILE[/COLOR] (first thing you see "name =")]
{
    MODULE
    {
        name = LifeSupportModule
    }
    RESOURCE
    {
        name = Food
        amount = (1 for each kerbal onboard)
        maxAmount = (same amount)
    }
    RESOURCE
    {
        name = Water
        amount = (1 for each kerbal onboard)
        maxAmount = (same amount)
    }
    RESOURCE
    {
        name = Oxygen
        amount = (1 for each kerbal onboard)
        maxAmount = (same amount)
    }
    RESOURCE
    {
        name = CarbonDioxide
        amount = 0
        maxAmount = (personnel choice)
    }
    RESOURCE
    {
        name = Waste
        amount = 0
        maxAmount = (personnel choice)
    }
    RESOURCE
    {
        name = WasteWater
        amount = 0
        maxAmount = (personnel choice)
    }
}

And if you just want to add a tank, or add ressources to any part, same thing with only the ressources you want and without the Life Support Module at the top

Edited March 3, 2014 by Aknar

[TheDude]

Yes, the life support module is what makes the parts need these ressources and drain them. Without them, you just have a rsevoir part the stocks those ressources for other parts of the vessel with kerbals there to use them. I believe the mod does search for capsules that are manned to add this module in along with enough ressources for the crew (depending on it's number) to last for a day

??????

I didn't forget to add anything. It seems to work just fine without LifeSupportModule.

Even without that module other command pods have the TAC resources and life support functions as expected. I took a B9 command pod, edited out everything except the commandmodule and minimum crew settings, loaded the game and Hyper Edited it into orbit. It had all of the TAC resources and in time they ran out and the Kerbals died. Everything worked as expected. When I checked the part in the debut menu it DID NOT have the LifeSupportModule in it. That is the source of my confusion.

It appears that LifeSupportModule is not necessary and something else is adding TAC resources to command pods. I assume it's the DLL looking for specific modules in the part. So my questions are

1. What is LifeSupportModule and what functions does it provide?

2. How are TAC resources added to other command pods not included in the module manager config supplied with the mod?

Best regards,

The Dude

[Aknar]

Sorry, I wasn't clear because I read through it too fast, I rectified it overhead straight after

[Crater]

It appears that LifeSupportModule is not necessary and something else is adding TAC resources to command pods. I assume it's the DLL looking for specific modules in the part. So my questions are

1. What is LifeSupportModule and what functions does it provide?

2. How are TAC resources added to other command pods not included in the module manager config supplied with the mod?

Best regards,

The Dude

How it works is as follows

1) stock part configs are loaded, so if a part pre-exists with TAC-LS support, it will have it

2) Module Manager configs are patched in - so any part with specifically defined values can be set

3) ALL parts with crew capacity that do not already have the LifeSupportModule automatically have the LS module and exactly one day of supplies added.

This means that, for one day of consumables, everything will just happen by magic, and you cannot forget to provide a mod part with air to breathe. BUT, it also means that you can e.g. build an MM config that puts more supplies onto a pod (such as NASA's planned Orion pod which will have consumables for about 6 days for 6 people - 36 person days of stuff), or, for that matter, you could just add the LifeSupportModule, but not consumables, using MM, which would mean that the code would not do the automatic add, and you'd have a very dangerous pod to spend any time in O.o

[Dr. Jet]

First of all - I want to notice two quite nice TACLS compatible mods. Biomass and a seem-to-be-more-realistic Biomass Science+ DEV-build. Those are worthy to be put in compatible mods list.

Though... First one is totally unrealistic as it doesn't use water in photosynthesis. Yep it's just "C02+light=Biomass+O2".

Second one is much better, as it counts water usage and even simulates microbiotics, plant germination and respiration cycle, but... it seems to be using Kethane... what ruins all the realism thing.

Trying to configure my own greenhouse part for use with TACLS, I realised some annoying things...

1) Stock generator module can't work with extra-tiny production rates used in TACLS. No problem, TacGenericConverter module can do and do it fine, but it doesn't have an "AlwaysActive" option, which results in such strange buttons as "Turn on/off Photosynthesis". (Always forget to switch it after launch. )

2) Resource units are not proportional to mass or volume thus making it quite difficult to calculate realistic tank capacities and proper consumal/production rates for anything else than living kerbal.

3) Water purifier part produce from 1 unit of Wastewater 0.9 Units of Water and 6.382 Units of Waste... Where is the logic? Brine, which is almost inconvertible remnaint from IRL urine processor is merely 15% by mass and even less by volume to input. Considering wastewater to be not only urine, but also a graywater and water extracted from air filters, it's about 93% water and 7% combined waste output (RL systems). And we CANNOT store that small amount with current capacity balance. Not good.

So... I request a much needed "AlwaysActive" option for TacGenericConverter (for simulating such slow things as photosynthesis, plant breathing, decay and so on) and suggest to think about a more sane mass-based units and proportional volume storage capacities, as it is already done with stock liquid fuel and oxidizer.

P.S. Some math for people trying to configure their own greenhouses for TACLS like me.

Glucose photosynthesis formula is 6CO₂+6H₂O->C₆H₁₂O₆+6O₂-Q. Formula for general carbohydrates is relatively the same (CO₂+H₂O->[CH₂O]+O₂-Q).

That means with theoretical 100% efficiency 22 kg of carbon dioxide and 9 kg of water converts to 15 kg of general carbohydrates and 16 kg of oxygen. Nice and easy-to-remember numbers.

In current (awful) TACLS unit system (using the sheet from http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/40667-0-23-WIP-TAC-Life-Support-0-8-22Dec?p=673496&viewfull=1#post673496) that will be "129.226 units of carbon dioxide and 15,019 units of water converts to 142,11 units of will-be-food-biomass and 111.884 units of oxygen". Do you see the difference? Unit-based CO₂->0₂ is different from expected 1:1 rate. Facepalm...

P.P.S. Plant respiration cycle can be simulated ve-e-ery draftly by a reverse process at 25% speed, which happens all the time independently of light.

Edited March 4, 2014 by Dr. Jet

[PhaserArray]

How would I go about adding the options to add Oxygen, Water, Food, CO2, Waste Water and Waste to the real fuels mod? I use the real fuels mod and the stretchy tanks, I would like to be able to add the life support resources to the service module stretchy tank part.

[GavinZac]

Not sure what's going on, but one of my craft is now exempt from TAC requirements. The others are not.

ArgumentOutOfRangeException: Argument is out of range.
Parameter name: index
  at System.Collections.Generic.List`1[ProtoCrewMember].get_Item (Int32 index) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at Tac.LifeSupportController.ConsumeOxygen (Double currentTime, .Vessel vessel, Tac.VesselInfo vesselInfo) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at Tac.LifeSupportController.ConsumeResources (Double currentTime, .Vessel vessel, Tac.VesselInfo vesselInfo) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at Tac.LifeSupportController.FixedUpdate () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

On-screen I get a notice about not being able to find VesselInfo.

Edit: fixed it by deleting the entries for the launcher that had taken it into space. I put a probe core on the launcher so that I can de-orbit it, but this seems to have meant TAC didn't care about the station left in orbit.

Edited March 6, 2014 by GavinZac

[woot]

I enjoy this mod, but would highly recommend that the author choose his favorite textures and incorporate them into the main download. It's confusing deciding which combination of user-provided textures will eliminate all of the stock textures without being redundant, particularly since they don't always use standard names. I know from reading through this thread that this change would also eliminate a great deal of complaining for those who don't read the OP thoroughly, and would likely greatly increase the image and usage of this great mod.

[TerLoki]

This may sound like a stupid question, but does resource consumption increase with the number of Kerbals? I.E.: 2 will deplete 30 days worth of resources in 15, 3 in 10, 6 in 5, etc.?

[Jaxx]

This may sound like a stupid question, but does resource consumption increase with the number of Kerbals? I.E.: 2 will deplete 30 days worth of resources in 15, 3 in 10, 6 in 5, etc.?

Yes. It does.

[TerLoki]

Okay, thanks. One more question. It says in the first post that this mod can be disabled on a specific save-game. How exactly does that work? I've finally worked up the guts to try it out, but I don't want to kill off all the Kerbals I have in orbit or anything by turning it on.

[blackheart612]

I have a guess, when you start a new game, shows the rates in consuming. See if you can disable it there.

[Jaxx]

AFAIK the game will assume any old saves aren't usable with TAC by default and gives you the option. You can try it with a test world though. ( and keep backups! )

[TerLoki]

Yeah, I guess I'll have to try that then. I'd check the ReadMe, but it's a .md file, whatever the heck that is. May want to fix that.

[GavinZac]

Yeah, I guess I'll have to try that then. I'd check the ReadMe, but it's a .md file, whatever the heck that is. May want to fix that.

.MD is a markdown file, which is what GitHub recommends for readme files. It opens just fine with any text editor.

[TerLoki]

Well I'd never heard of it before, and my computer just shrugged and said "what the heck is this thing?" when I tried to open it, just had to make sure of what the heck it even was.

One more question, now that I have this working: I have a space station with more than enough power production capacity to meet life support requirements, but whenever I switch to another ship the life support readout shows it as running off of stored energy and not gaining anything. If that readout hits zero while I'm on another ship, will my Kerbals be okay? Is it only running on stored charge while I'm focused somewhere else, or are the solar panels still doing their job?