Is part clipping considered cheating?

[Levelord]

Ignoring the concept of intake spam, is clipping of other rocket parts considered cheating?

The physics engine acts on all parts of a ship, even items that are clipped inside of other items.... i.e. They are still subject to give mass, and still exert drag regardless. The only difference between clipping vs non-clipping is that clipped ships tend to look aesthetically better, but other than that, have identical delta-v to a similar craft using the same amount and type of parts.

So why is there a fuss about people enabling clipping in the VAB? If it were not for clipping we wouldn't have wonderful Apollo 11 replicas from stock parts. :I

[El wonso]

I think it's a personal preference, you should start a poll about it if you want to gather opinions.

[Brotoro]

In before "can't cheat in a sandbox game.â€Â

I don't mind clipping that isn't ridiculous (like clipping big parts into a fuel tank, but expecting the tank to still hold the same volume of fuel). The game allows you to do some clipping anyway, so why complain when someone does a bit more. I'm just having the engineers modify my parts so they fit together better.

[Levelord]

I think it's a personal preference, you should start a poll about it if you want to gather opinions.

Is it possible to add a poll to the first post after I've already created the thread? :0

[geb]

Some types of part clipping make more sense than others. I go by personal judgement of what seems realistic.

For example, putting two structural girders through each other is fine. The model for them is mostly hollow. Putting batteries or probe cores inside the 2.5m ASAS is fine, as it looks like there should be space for stuff inside it. Clipping two rocket engines so their nozzles intersect is unrealistic though, so I wouldn't do it.

[p331083]

I dont see a problem with it considering how limited we are in parts and ability to design craft. Think about airplanes, they store their fuel in their wings, not large bulky cylindrical tanks on their wings(drop tanks dont count) or in the middle of their fuselage.

[El wonso]

Is it possible to add a poll to the first post after I've already created the thread? :0

Dunno, I have neved started a thread.

[fancycat]

I was annoyed by some one who posted the perfect aircraft but it had 10 wings in the space of one and 10 jet engines in the space of two (one on each side) with 10 intakes. it was kind of silly. when it comes to "structural parts" i would consider that just fine because it doesn't actually help you in any impossible way. that aircraft's jet engine could function at 25,000 m as well. anyway it is a sandbox game like brotoro said so it is all about your fun.

[El wonso]

that aircraft's jet engine could function at 25,000 m as well.

I have built SSTO with jet engine functioning at 25km at 100%. Mounting air intakes on wings helps a lot.

Generally I agree - part clipping is ok unless abused.

[arq]

Do you consider it cheating? That's all that matters, it's a sandbox.

I tend to avoid it, but that's personal preference. If nothing else, it makes clicking parts difficult.

[Aphox]

I'm really careful about what I clip, myself. I don't like to feel like I'm "cheating". Examples given in the thread of what I consider that to be would be clipping fuel tanks into eachother and retaining volume and stuff like that. But, for pretty much anything that's light-weight and structural, like wingpieces or those tail things--and even structural fuselages-- I like to pretend that they were just cut that way to fit on my rocket and aren't actually inside my fuel tank.

Also, I can make the thread a poll if you want.

[BubbaWilkins]

I have built SSTO with jet engine functioning at 25km at 100%. Mounting air intakes on wings helps a lot.

Generally I agree - part clipping is ok unless abused.

Lets put it this way,

Every part has a size, shape, mass, and performance to be considered.

Clipping ignores size and shape and only adds mass and performance.

That relegates your craft to have magic properties that a standard craft would not. No different than turning on infinite fuel.

[Pleborian]

I do not consider it cheating for 1 important reason real rockets use part clipping all the time, NASA wouldnt build a rocket and just cram things on because they wouldnt fit, they would embed them inside other parts

[bsalis]

Oh meh, again "doing X" viewed through the prism of "cheating".

Personally I do not clip. Not beyond what the VAB/SPH naturally allows without Debug Menu.

Is there not another word to use? Perhaps ask is "doing X" considered legit? Playin' the game as envisioned perhaps?

[vidboi]

Lets put it this way,

Every part has a size, shape, mass, and performance to be considered.

Clipping ignores size and shape and only adds mass and performance.

That relegates your craft to have magic properties that a standard craft would not. No different than turning on infinite fuel.

But KSP's physics doesn't take size and shape into account, so it's exactly the same gameplay wise as a non-clipped craft. It's completely different to turning on infinite fuel...

[leopardenthusiast]

I sometimes clip radial RCS tanks into spacecraft that aren't equipped to dock, though I haven't done it since I installed FAR, as it would lead to reduced drag and anything that I'm trying to make bearable to look at via part clipping is usually not going to have to be hidden away in a fairing (and by that, I mean it isn't a giant block of fuel and engines).

[GreeningGalaxy]

I almost always have part clipping enabled, just because I'm tired of parts that look like they should fit not fitting because they intersect on one tiny corner. I haven't made anything extremely ridiculous with part clipping, although in my stock game I don't have too much of a problem with intake spamming (FAR seems to make intake spamming unnecessary in my modded install).

[engraverwilliam]

I always put 8 RCS tanks into the large ASAS ring.

[OtherDalfite]

I don't really consider it cheating so long as you aren't clipping intakes, engines, fuel tanks, or the same wing together. Using the long spaceplane cones work great for providing 4 places to mount thrusters. It's also necessary if you want to build something cool, but requires clipping to do so.

[Synthesis]

I would say no--because many parts already clip without the debug menu's help, and other parts simply don't fit properly (even though they should) without debug menu's assistance.

[regex]

I consider it "cheating" and would never do it myself. The stock VAB method of building is good enough for me.

[KerbMav]

Enabeling a debug tool circumvents "gameplay as designed", so I would consider it as cheating for myself and never used it.

Girders and the like snapping inside a tank e.g. can look better or create a more fitting design, as they do so by themselves I dont mind to build that way.

Clipping is often mentioned to cause weird physical behaviour, so I tend to avoid it mostly though.

[allmappedout]

Enabeling a debug tool circumvents "gameplay as designed", so I would consider it as cheating for myself and never used it.

You mean, despite the fact that some of the stuff the devs do in livestreams has clipping, and, I think, even some of the default designs within the game..?

Anyway, my 2c is that since it's a single player game, do what you want.

[SuperWeegee4000]

I never use part clipping if I can help it; it does feel wrong to stock-only me by nature... but on spaceplanes it can be a little more acceptable, as long as you're not putting fuel tanks inside of fuel tanks. Then again, the SPH sort of does it automatically; I would never use the debug version.

[Omicron314]

I use it occasionally, and I don't consider myself cheating myself when I use it within reason. I don't do anything crazy like putting fuel tanks inside fuel tanks inside of fuel tanks, but small RcS tanks in command pods? Sure, if done within reason.