[0.25]KSP Interstellar (Magnetic Nozzles, ISRU Revamp) Version 0.13

[forsaken1111]

I want to say that this was done on purpose so that the science lab and now the refinery can produce aluminum without having to mess with reverse fuel lines like you do with kethane. That was my impression from previous posts Fractal's made. Either way, if you want to change it to work like LF and Oxidizer, like db48x said, it's a very simple change.

That... doesn't make much sense as a reason. Sure it can produce aluminum now but the oxidizer still won't get to the engines unless you have the fuel lines set up as that resource still follows the stock fuel flow right? And it makes it almost impossible to use the engines in multiple stages because they steal from one another if you don't manually disable the fuel flows.

[db48x]

That... doesn't make much sense as a reason. Sure it can produce aluminum now but the oxidizer still won't get to the engines unless you have the fuel lines set up as that resource still follows the stock fuel flow right? And it makes it almost impossible to use the engines in multiple stages because they steal from one another if you don't manually disable the fuel flows.

Yea, my thoughts exactly.

[Fido488]

Fixed by Update 0.8.2

Fractal: Bug Report

OS: Mac

Interstellar Version: 0.8.1

I experienced an interesting bug involving electric generators:

(Notice that the electric charge is dropping at a fairly fast rate)

As you can see here I have an electric generator that I'm using as the sole power supply for this Jool Interplanetary Satellite (I'm also using remote tech). This ship had plenty of power and was quite content. I switched to another vessel to handle an SOI change and when I switched back this vessel the electric charge was not being regenerated.

You will also notice that the nuclear engine that I am using for thermal energy is absolutely fine:

Any suggestions on how I might fix this for myself??

Also: I have tried restarting the game and restarting the generator both do nothing to help the problem.

I'm fairly certain that it's not a power draw issue since I flew all the way from Kerbin to Jool without having an issue.

I'll continue mucking around to see if I can fix it.

Here is the ships info from the quicksave file (Too big for the form "code" blocks): http://pastebin.com/gSVQLrdp

Edited December 3, 2013 by Fido488

[Fractal_UK]

Version 0.8.2 Released

Otherwise known as the great bug purge. Since it's been a little while since the last update, I thought I'd cram in a few small features too. The Plasma engines will now have different slightly different efficiency depending on the propellant used rather than a fixed 72% efficiency. The values are LiquidFuel (72%), Argon (76%), Xenon (69%), Lithium (86%), I've also added a new Monopropellant (Hydrazine) propellant option which functions at 52% efficiency.

I've also changed the antimatter tanks to have different electrical consumptions dependent upon their size.

Changelog:

Version 0.8.2
-Different plasma engine propellants have different efficiencies, added monopropellant (hydrazine) as a fuel option
-antimatter tanks charge use variable based on size 
-Jool 0 temperature radiator bug fixed
-extensive microwave fixes - conservation of energy now respected
-antimatter consumption with multiple tanks fixed
-generator improvements, use better resource manager API
-radiation improvements + second van allen belt
-reactor supports unupgradeable types
-electrolysis rate fix
-resource manager electricity consumption fix
-resource manager negative consumption bug prevented
-various conversions to double precision to improve accuracy
-removed more constants from part modules

Download links in the first page have been updated.

---

Any suggestions on how I might fix this for myself??

This update will fix it.

[Wuz314159]

I'm trying to learn this mod with some difficulty.

Every tutorial I found says the Science Lab is the key to everything.

But I can't say that it has any use whatsoever.

Also I do not have any units of Science anywhere.

Really confused.

[SergeantBlueforce]

What happens if you use this mod with Krag's Planet Factory.

[forsaken1111]

Version 0.8.2 Released

Otherwise known as the great bug purge. Since it's been a little while since the last update, I thought I'd cram in a few small features too. The Plasma engines will now have different slightly different efficiency depending on the propellant used rather than a fixed 72% efficiency. The values are LiquidFuel (72%), Argon (76%), Xenon (69%), Lithium (86%), I've also added a new Monopropellant (Hydrazine) propellant option which functions at 52% efficiency.

I've also changed the antimatter tanks to have different electrical consumptions dependent upon their size.

Changelog:

Version 0.8.2
-Different plasma engine propellants have different efficiencies, added monopropellant (hydrazine) as a fuel option
-antimatter tanks charge use variable based on size 
-Jool 0 temperature radiator bug fixed
-extensive microwave fixes - conservation of energy now respected
-antimatter consumption with multiple tanks fixed
-generator improvements, use better resource manager API
-radiation improvements + second van allen belt
-reactor supports unupgradeable types
-electrolysis rate fix
-resource manager electricity consumption fix
-resource manager negative consumption bug prevented
-various conversions to double precision to improve accuracy
-removed more constants from part modules

Download links in the first page have been updated.

---

This update will fix it.

Yay update.

No fix for the aluminum issue I mention above? I'll do the manual fix again if I must.

[Fido488]

This update will fix it.

Hey! What do you know! Thanks Fractal!

I'm trying to learn this mod with some difficulty.

Every tutorial I found says the Science Lab is the key to everything.

But I can't say that it has any use whatsoever.

Also I do not have any units of Science anywhere.

Really confused.

Understandably this can be rather confusing because originally the mod used to use science like a resource that you could use to upgrade pieces of tech (imagine spending rocket fuel to get a better engine)

Now, however, with the addition of career mode the science is accumulated with the passing of time (even when you are not focused on the ship and works with time warp) and transmitted to the R&D building when you load the ship. (You will notice when you load your ship after it has traveled for several weeks it will say "[some number] of science added to R&D" (or something similar).

Hope this helps

[Myrten]

Version 0.8.2 Released

Otherwise known as the great bug purge. Since it's been a little while since the last update, I thought I'd cram in a few small features too. The Plasma engines will now have different slightly different efficiency depending on the propellant used rather than a fixed 72% efficiency. The values are LiquidFuel (72%), Argon (76%), Xenon (69%), Lithium (86%), I've also added a new Monopropellant (Hydrazine) propellant option which functions at 52% efficiency.

I've also changed the antimatter tanks to have different electrical consumptions dependent upon their size.

Changelog:

Version 0.8.2
-Different plasma engine propellants have different efficiencies, added monopropellant (hydrazine) as a fuel option
-antimatter tanks charge use variable based on size 
-Jool 0 temperature radiator bug fixed
-extensive microwave fixes - conservation of energy now respected
-antimatter consumption with multiple tanks fixed
-generator improvements, use better resource manager API
-radiation improvements + second van allen belt
-reactor supports unupgradeable types
-electrolysis rate fix
-resource manager electricity consumption fix
-resource manager negative consumption bug prevented
-various conversions to double precision to improve accuracy
-removed more constants from part modules

Download links in the first page have been updated.

---

This update will fix it.

Great to see new update, thanks for your work

I took a quick look at new microwave receiver code and maybe you've noticed this but I think there is a significant problem with distance calculation, for example:

We got one receiver Rc, one transmitter T and two relays R₁, R₂

Rc cannot see T but can see both relays R₁ and R₂ and both of them can see T.

Your current algorithm will always measure distance using R₁ since it's first in a list but what if:

Rc, T and R₂ are on Kerbin's orbit

R₁ is on ~low Sun orbit..

Calculated distance will be Rc->R₁->T which is enormous Kerbin->Sun->Kerbin while Rc->R₂->T is just Kerbin->Kerbin->Kerbin

I'll rewrite my algorithm for 0.82, correct me if I'm wrong but I think that on output it should produce list of transmitters to which there is a connection and for each transmitter there should be a list of relays through which connection is going on. Another condition is that selected connection should have smallest possible distance from all possible connections.

Edited December 3, 2013 by Myrten

[Fractal_UK]

Great to see new update, thanks for your work

I took a quick look at new microwave receiver code and maybe you've noticed this but I think there is a significant problem with distance calculation, for example:

We got one receiver Rc, one transmitter T and two relays R₁, R₂

Rc cannot see T but can see both relays R₁ and R₂ and both of them can see T.

Your current algorithm will always measure distance using R₁ since it's first in a list but what if:

Rc, T and R₂ are on Kerbin's orbit

R₁ is on ~low Sun orbit..

Calculated distance will be Rc->R₁->T which is enormous Kerbin->Sun->Kerbin while Rc->R₂->T is just Kerbin->Kerbin->Kerbin

I'll rewrite my algorithm for 0.82, correct me if I'm wrong but I think that on output it should produce list of transmitters to which there is a connection and for each transmitter there should be a list of relays through which connection is going on. Another condition is that selected connection should have smallest possible distance from all possible connections.

You are correct and I am aware of this, I suspect, however, that altering the algorthim to take distance into account is a bad idea because it increases algorithmic complexity quite a bit especially if you want to take multiple relays into account. Since this algorithm is running often, we don't want to make it more complicated.

The best way I've thought of dealing with this, so far at least, is to order the list of relays by distance when the ship is loaded (and perhaps perform a re-ordering minute or so), that way the first relays in the list, i.e. the ones that are connected to first, will always at least be in the same sphere of influence (assuming such a relay exists). That way, in the worst possible case, you connect to a slightly suboptimal relay within the same SOI, at which point the energy losses will be almost indistinguishable anyway.

[Lightwarrior]

Fusion reactors will not power the DT Vista. Unless you use alot of them. If you look at the KSPI 0.81 Datasheet I posted you will see that the 1.25m Fusion which is the largest only produces 313.1MW fully upgraded. DT Vista requires a constant 2.5GW.

I just use 8 of them. It is perfectly enough to power engine and there is enough left for reactors themselves. They also have much less weight than single 3.75 fission reactor, and being placed around 2.5m fuel tank above the engine they look cool imo (here is single small radiator per reactor, but really only 4 small radiators are enough) :

[Myrten]

You are correct and I am aware of this, I suspect, however, that altering the algorthim to take distance into account is a bad idea because it increases algorithmic complexity quite a bit especially if you want to take multiple relays into account. Since this algorithm is running often, we don't want to make it more complicated.

The best way I've thought of dealing with this, so far at least, is to order the list of relays by distance when the ship is loaded (and perhaps perform a re-ordering minute or so), that way the first relays in the list, i.e. the ones that are connected to first, will always at least be in the same sphere of influence (assuming such a relay exists). That way, in the worst possible case, you connect to a slightly suboptimal relay within the same SOI, at which point the energy losses will be almost indistinguishable anyway.

Yes, pre-sorting relay list might be a good idea - actually for first layer we might also include angle between them and receiver since it does affect power. This can get complicated in case of multi-relays but I'll think about this.

Also, is this code executed for vessel or for each receiver? If it's the second one changing it to for vessel might save a lot of calculations.

Meanwhile:

Both infinite power and 200 GW pseudo-antimatter energy bugs are still working in my game, maybe it's sth wrong with my save since this infinite energy had spread everywhere.

Why do I have activate receiver button on transmitters?

Edited December 3, 2013 by Myrten

[Fido488]

You might consider looking into the code that Remote Tech uses. Those connections always use the shortest distance to try to get you your signal to you.

I have ~60 active flights (most are communication satellites) with 4 or more connections each and whatever algorithm he is using must be incredibly efficient (or multithreaded) because it doesn't ever seem to negatively impact the games performance.

Also, I don't know if you haven't already implemented it because I haven't used the microwave beams much yet, but a visual representation of your current connection paths would be useful.

Something that you could see from the map view.

If you do do this make sure that you can toggle it and that the connection lines are a different color from the ones used by Remote Tech.

[LORDPrometheus]

Remote tech looks around and outputs either a yes connect or no connect its actually only efficient because its so simple

[egreSS]

My impressions so far are this mod is great. But it can be very exhausting to learn all the qualms, mainly because the wiki is incomplete.

I'd like to suggest to make it easier to understand for newcomers that the editor description contain more practical information, such as fusion reactors requiring MegaJoules to get started, etc

And please, please standardize the resource names

e.g. ThermalPower = MWth and MegaJoules = MWe

Ooo, sweet! an update!

edit: I guess for joule that would be MWe per second ? Now I am confused again.

Edited December 3, 2013 by egreSS
MWe

[Donziboy2]

My impressions so far are this mod is great. But it can be very exhausting to learn all the qualms, mainly because the wiki is incomplete.

Fractal_UK has asked several times for help from those who use the mod to help fill in the gaps on the wiki.

I'd like to suggest to make it easier to understand for newcomers that the editor description contain more practical information, such as fusion

That would probably help yes, im sure Fractal_UK will do what is possible, im sure he/she would like to play the game at some point;)

[Patupi]

I admit I haven't used the Fusion Reactors much yet. So they can't be activated with loads of normal energy? It has to be Megajoules? I was wondering if carrying a load of batteries might start up the smallest fusion reactor.

[AdmiralTigerclaw]

Remote tech looks around and outputs either a yes connect or no connect its actually only efficient because its so simple

I think he's talking about the trace-route from any given path back to KSC.

[db48x]

I admit I haven't used the Fusion Reactors much yet. So they can't be activated with loads of normal energy? It has to be Megajoules? I was wondering if carrying a load of batteries might start up the smallest fusion reactor.

It has to be megajoules, because you couldn't carry that many ordinary batteries. Also because most parts that deal with megajoules can only deal with megajoules, not the ordinary electric charge. This is to prevent cycles where the mod converts megajoules to electric charge and then converts it immediately back to megajoules.

[Donziboy2]

I admit I haven't used the Fusion Reactors much yet. So they can't be activated with loads of normal energy? It has to be Megajoules? I was wondering if carrying a load of batteries might start up the smallest fusion reactor.

You only need a few MJ to activate them, a power receiver would do just fine, you can charge it over time. Just as long as you don't drain the MJ back into EC.

I just use 8 of them. It is perfectly enough to power engine and there is enough left for reactors themselves. They also have much less weight than single 3.75 fission reactor, and being placed around 2.5m fuel tank above the engine they look cool imo (here is single small radiator per reactor, but really only 4 small radiators are enough) :

Nice ship, sorry about that I misread and thought you wanted to use 1 Fusion to run a DT Vista.

Edited December 3, 2013 by Donziboy2

[Lightwarrior]

I admit I haven't used the Fusion Reactors much yet. So they can't be activated with loads of normal energy? It has to be Megajoules? I was wondering if carrying a load of batteries might start up the smallest fusion reactor.

You need Megajoules.

And personally I prefer to use one or even two 0.625m fission reactors. They are not too heavy (only ~0.3-0.4T) and this is the most reliable way. If you will accidentaly shutdown fusion reactors or run out of power you will easily restart them. And you can shutdown fusion reactors during transfers. I also manually shutdown one of fission reactors to preserve fuel.

Edited December 3, 2013 by Lightwarrior

[pasty2k2]

Hi Fractal - found a little bug I think with the receiver and possibly transmitter. I can't get any faster than 12m/s in atmo with 4 receivers attached (on satellites). Possibly it has something to do with its reported area, and the fact I'm using FAR maybe?

Examples:

no rec

rec

McLovin the fixed Jool bug, thanks for the update dude!

[Donziboy2]

Um Fractal_UK, im having a problem....

I loaded up my current active career and about half of my craft are now overheating, or hardly running due to the generators now only producing 4 and 10%....

The strange thing is I have craft of the same build in different locations and some are unaffected.

Edited December 3, 2013 by Donziboy2

[pasty2k2]

Um Fractal_UK, im having a problem....

I loaded up my current active career and about half of my craft are now overheating, or hardly running due to the generators now only producing 4 and 10%....

The strange thing is I have craft of the same build in different locations and some are unaffected.

I had this too, has the way parts are upgraded changed, or was it borked before?

*edit* or is it just us?!

Edited December 3, 2013 by pasty2k2
Don't wish to presume!

[BigD145]

You might consider looking into the code that Remote Tech uses. Those connections always use the shortest distance to try to get you your signal to you.

No, it doesn't use the shortest distance. It uses the least number of connections, regardless of distance, and randomly picks one if there are multiples with the same number of connections. If this means going to an Eeloo command post from a craft right next to Kerbin, it will do that.

Edited December 3, 2013 by BigD145