[0.25]KSP Interstellar (Magnetic Nozzles, ISRU Revamp) Version 0.13

[Srilania]

still having the same issue, the refinery doesn't rez, so the plugin can't be used to do anything, and the tanks of UF4fuel can't pump around.

[Fractal_UK]

still having the same issue, the refinery doesn't rez, so the plugin can't be used to do anything, and the tanks of UF4fuel can't pump around.

Are you using the refinery as the vessel root part? If so, can you make sure you test it without this being the case?

Nuclear fuel doesn't pump, this is correct behaviour. You can only move it with EVA options.

[CaelReader]

I'm not seeing the Refinery in the tech tree, which node is it at?

[Northstar1989]

Are you using the same vehicle for testing purposes? The only thing that has changed and could affect the results slightly are some tweaks to the atmospheric limit code, which prevents flameouts. The nuclear reactors are fairly hampered by atmosphere, their specific impulse using atmospheric propellant is very low - the advantage of that is it gives you more thrust, the downside is it makes flameouts occur quicker than is ideal. Anyway, on the launch pad, my testing shows 16.3kN from a clamped thermal turbojet and a basic uranium MSR and an 85.5% atmospheric limit - that means with more airflow I could get up to 19.1kN, exactly the same value as you recorded in the previous version.

This change was neccessary in order to prevent twin-jet engined aircraft from yawing unpleasantly due to the two engines producing different thrusts, something that often happens when intake propellant is available but in short supply (but before a flameout).

Now, intakes are quite velocity dependent and stationary on the launchpad is not their ideal operating regime. Under actual flight conditions, you shouldn't see such a big difference between this version and the last - once you get off the ground, you'll start to see the benefits of increased specific impulse due to more ideal atmospheric conditions as well as higher intake values due to aircraft velocity. You can also add more intakes to your plane in order to make sure you get access to all the atmospheric propellant you need and try and push that atmospheric limit close to 100%.

D'OH! That probably should have been the first thing I thought of- maybe it was a vehicle-based difference! The testing vehicles weren't proper planes, but just fuselages with engines attached, but the testing vehicle in 0.7.4 *DID* in fact feature a MUCH larger intake (a 2.5 meter Atmospheric Intake- as opposed to a couple mall radial supersonic intakes from B9 Aerospace). I tried turning off the TWR limiter, however (setting it to "3" instead of "Prevent Flameouts") however that didn't really seem to do much- and the resource screen showed it had plenty of IntakeAtm to work with... So, my guess is that it's more a problem with the TWR Limiter code being too conservative in dense atmospheres like at Kerbin Seal Level- where plenty of atmospheric propellent is available- rather than an issue with the reactors themselves...

The Thermal Turbojet description *DOES* say its ISP is related to core temperature, though, and I did also record a significant drop in engine ISP (to about 58, from 78 before) at sea level- and THAT shouldn't be adversely affected by propellant availability- so it does look like you (or the other mod devs) did reduce the effective altitude ceiling of the Thermal Turbojets when powered by fission reactors nonetheless... (a lower ISP means more IntakeAtmosphere is necessary to keep the thing running at threshold thrust- so the plane can't operate in as thin an atmosphere...)

Additionally, switching over to thorium fuel can be an asset for an aircraft you plan to make regular use of. By doing so, you will see a 27% increase in thrust as well as an 8% increase in specific impulse. By doing both this and adding a couple more intakes, you should actually see a big improvement in un-upgraded nuclear flight compared to version 0.7.4.

As for the fusion reactors - it's hard to say whether they are overpowered yet because they are a new addition. That said, the unupgraded fusion reactor is available on the same tech as the upgraded fission reactors and they are a moderate improvement - 175MW thermal power compared to 120MW but the fusion reactor requires an ongoing 7MW of electrical power to continue operation, which can cut off somewhere between 14MW and 45MW from the thermal power depending on operating temperature conditions and whether you have upgraded generators. Unupgraded, they therefore offer a very modest increase in power output compared to the upgraded fission reactors at the expensive of drastically increased fuel consumption. A fusion reactor burns through it's fuel way more rapidly than the fission reactors.

Once upgraded, they are a lot better but are by that point competing with the first generation of antimatter reactors, which give you a whole new set of capabilities again.

Anyway, I hope some of that rundown helps you get your aircraft working smoothly again.

Yeah- seeing the much better performance of the fusion reactors- and the fact that I normally greatly reduce the fuel-loading before takeoff of the fission reactors for better performance anyways (using TAC Fuel Balancer)- I'll probably switch the designs to fusion reactors once those become available. I'm really not sure I understand exactly what you're saying about the energy requirements though- do they need a continued outside power source after startup, or would it be enough just to hook the plane up to powerful fission generator to "jumpstart" the reactor right before flight? Either way, I guess I'll have to figure it out- because I've got a lucky son-of-a-gun with a much more powerful computer than mine to beat, who could afford the CPU drain of strapping 20 Command Chairs to his design for extra Challenge points- so my points will have to lie in maximum Dunar altitude ceiling, or cargo-capacity on Duna instead...

[neutrino#1]

I seem to have run into a bug: the poweroutput and heat production of solar panels seems to be inverted. My large solar panels in low Kerbol orbit only show an energy flow of 0.01, but a large solar panel in Jool Orbit had an energy flow of several hundred units. I just tried it again on a fresh install of KSP with Interstellar 0.8 and Hyperedit as the only mods and got the same results.

[Fractal_UK]

I seem to have run into a bug: the poweroutput and heat production of solar panels seems to be inverted. My large solar panels in low Kerbol orbit only show an energy flow of 0.01, but a large solar panel in Jool Orbit had an energy flow of several hundred units. I just tried it again on a fresh install of KSP with Interstellar 0.8 and Hyperedit as the only mods and got the same results.

You are correct, I will fix it, thanks for the report.

[CommanderPetrovaski]

The unupgraded version is just a closed cycle Brayton turbine system (almost all real world power plants use the Rankine cycle), these systems feed the working fluid through a compressor and turbine assembly. I understand that in a normal power plant, the compressor typically takes advantage of gravity to seperate the vapour and condensate. I understand there are a number of different schemes that can be used to perform this function in zero gravity conditions.

Ah I see now, use a Brayton cycle turbine you don't have to effect a change of state in the working fluid which would allow the exhaust pressure of the turbine to provide Net positive suction head for the compressor as long as the working fluid remains in a gaseous state. Very elegant Fractal

[neutrino#1]

I tested the other solar panels and the OX-STAT (the small not animated one) seems to be working like it does in unmodded KSP but the others are inverted. Hope that helps!

[RussPixie]

Hi, I'm running into a problem docking Lithium and Deut/Trit tanks to my station. This is the Station (Picture was taken in KSPI 0.74)

I'm using KSPI 0.8

I'm docking a small module to the THSS docking ports at the bottom near the reactor. The module has a lithium tank and 6 deut/trit tanks plus docking ports, with a little booster that will de-orbit afterwards. When the lithium tank docks, I get a hard lockup of KSP.

KSP.log here https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6qhKlFxd1PkbXVoYUtOeUZncFk/edit?usp=sharing

I'm using a few different mods, as can be seen in the ksp.log file.

bottom of the log file :

[LOG 21:42:21.485] Docking to vessel LKO Station

[LOG 21:42:22.025] [FLIGHT GLOBALS]: Switching To Vessel LKO Station ----------------------

[LOG 21:42:22.027] Camera Mode: AUTO

[LOG 21:42:22.132] stage manager resuming...

[LOG 21:42:22.143] [Orbit Targeter]: Target is null

[EXC 21:42:22.207] IndexOutOfRangeException: Array index is out of range.

Hope that's enough information.

Russ

[Srilania]

Tested, and yes, the processor, once set as a root part, does rez, but any other spot and it poofs. It would make more sense to be able to pump the fluids from the safety of a cockpit or radiation hardened safety bunker, instead of right up against it, though it seems with KAS, it slowly evens out the resources along all the spots. And no, I don't get an option to pump anything in an EVA form a reactor, just shutdown

[Rabblerouser]

Does anyone have any ~recent~ walkthroughs for this mod?

I can't even get started here.

Starting to think this mod is only for those that know how these elements realistically work.

Edited November 25, 2013 by Rabblerouser

[Lewiskerbington]

Quick question: How do you upgrade parts in career mode?

[Fractal_UK]

Hi, I'm running into a problem docking Lithium and Deut/Trit tanks to my station. This is the Station (Picture was taken in KSPI 0.74)

I'm using KSPI 0.8

I'm docking a small module to the THSS docking ports at the bottom near the reactor. The module has a lithium tank and 6 deut/trit tanks plus docking ports, with a little booster that will de-orbit afterwards. When the lithium tank docks, I get a hard lockup of KSP.

KSP.log here https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6qhKlFxd1PkbXVoYUtOeUZncFk/edit?usp=sharing

I'm using a few different mods, as can be seen in the ksp.log file.

bottom of the log file :

[LOG 21:42:21.485] Docking to vessel LKO Station

[LOG 21:42:22.025] [FLIGHT GLOBALS]: Switching To Vessel LKO Station ----------------------

[LOG 21:42:22.027] Camera Mode: AUTO

[LOG 21:42:22.132] stage manager resuming...

[LOG 21:42:22.143] [Orbit Targeter]: Target is null

[EXC 21:42:22.207] IndexOutOfRangeException: Array index is out of range.

Hope that's enough information.

Russ

Based on the image, it looks like you still have the old nuclear reactor models. It's really important when upgrading to version 0.8 that you delete the old WarpPlugin folder before installing, otherwise you might get some strange behaviour. I don't know if this is related but it seems likely given that the Lithium tanks don't actually run any code.

Does anyone have any ~recent~ walkthroughs for this mod?

I can't even get started here.

Starting to think this mod is only for those that know how these elements realistically work.

Scott Manley's first video is still quite relevent even though it focuses on the mod a few versions ago. His new Interstellar Quest video is probably another good thing to follow, though he's only just getting to the point where some of the Interstellar parts are starting to appear.

Otherwise, look at the first page and the wiki. As always, it's nice if regular players can help out with the wiki because maintaining this mod is a large amount of work before I even try to work on documentation but either way, I will try and do some work on it soon (after I'm done bug-fixing). Looking at the pictures of the crafts that people build is also a good idea, that is often better than a text-based description anyway. Also, if you have specific questions, ask away and people can probably help.

Quick question: How do you upgrade parts in career mode?

It's automatic for new parts. Older parts that are left over should have an option to upgrade them in the right-click menu once you've unlocked the upgrade tech.

[RussPixie]

Based on the image, it looks like you still have the old nuclear reactor models. It's really important when upgrading to version 0.8 that you delete the old WarpPlugin folder before installing, otherwise you might get some strange behaviour. I don't know if this is related but it seems likely given that the Lithium tanks don't actually run any code.

If you notice above the picture, I mention that the picture was taken in 0.74. When I updated the plugin, I did remove the previous version and add the latest version. Let me fire everything back up, and try and get a picture before it all crashes again.....

Edit - Picture

Edited November 25, 2013 by RussPixie
Added picture

[Ceb]

Would it be possible to add the functionality of the kethane mining drill and kethane converter to the refinery? It just makes sense to me to have that functionality in the refinery (also reduces part count). If not in the official release, would it be possible (by that I mean no programing suites) to add that functionality on my own.

On the same note, Can the new scanner detect kethane deposits too?

Im only asking about this because I know some of the engines in this mod can use kethane as a fuel.

[Fractal_UK]

If you notice above the picture, I mention that the picture was taken in 0.74. When I updated the plugin, I did remove the previous version and add the latest version. Let me fire everything back up, and try and get a picture before it all crashes again.....

I am not sure this is an Interstellar bug - notice when the station loads the first time:

[LOG 21:31:57.594] [FLIGHT GLOBALS]: Switching To Vessel LKO Station ---------------------- 
[LOG 21:31:57.598] Camera Mode: AUTO
[LOG 21:31:57.706] stage manager resuming...
[LOG 21:31:57.708] 11/25/2013 9:31:57 PM,KerbalAlarmClock,Active Vessel changed - resetting inqueue flag
[LOG 21:32:00.722] 11/25/2013 9:32:00 PM,KerbalAlarmClock,Removing DrawGUI from PostRender Queue
[B][EXC 21:32:00.727] IndexOutOfRangeException: Array index is out of range.[/B]
[EXC 21:32:00.733] ArgumentException: Getting control 1's position in a group with only 1 controls when doing Repaint
Aborting
[LOG 21:32:00.747] TAC Fuel Balancer [FFFBA82C][86.6]: Rebuilding resource lists.
[LOG 21:32:00.820] 11/25/2013 9:32:00 PM,KerbalAlarmClock,Vessel Change from 'Lithium Tanks' to 'LKO Station'
[B][EXC 21:32:00.827] IndexOutOfRangeException: Array index is out of range.
[EXC 21:32:00.834] IndexOutOfRangeException: Array index is out of range.
[EXC 21:32:00.841] IndexOutOfRangeException: Array index is out of range.[/B]
[LOG 21:32:00.880] 11/25/2013 9:32:00 PM,KerbalAlarmClock,Adding DrawGUI to PostRender Queue
[LOG 21:32:00.881] 11/25/2013 9:32:00 PM,KerbalAlarmClock,Skipping version check

and when the station loads again, same exception:

[LOG 21:42:22.025] [FLIGHT GLOBALS]: Switching To Vessel LKO Station ---------------------- 
[LOG 21:42:22.027] Camera Mode: AUTO
[LOG 21:42:22.132] stage manager resuming...
[LOG 21:42:22.143] [Orbit Targeter]: Target is null
[B][EXC 21:42:22.207] IndexOutOfRangeException: Array index is out of range.[/B]

So I'm not sure if anything different is happening between the two loading processes - other than one resulting in a crash and the other not. It's unclear where those exceptions are coming from and it's hard to say if they are even responsible for your crash given that they occur previously without causing a problem.

Regardless, since none of the Interstellar tanks (other than antimatter tanks) execute any code and there don't appear to be any other Interstellar parts on that tug ship craft, it's hard to imagine how it could be responsible. Are the docking ports the only other non-stock part on that tug? Where do they come from?

[RussPixie]

So I'm not sure if anything different is happening between the two loading processes - other than one resulting in a crash and the other not. It's unclear where those exceptions are coming from and it's hard to say if they are even responsible for your crash given that they occur previously without causing a problem.

Regardless, since none of the Interstellar tanks (other than antimatter tanks) execute any code and there don't appear to be any other Interstellar parts on that tug ship craft, it's hard to imagine how it could be responsible. Are the docking ports the only other non-stock part on that tug? Where do they come from?

The docking ports come from the Tri Hexagonal Struts pack. They are parts only. They use the standard docking node.

MODULE
{
	name = ModuleDockingNode
	referenceAttachNode = top
	nodeType = size1	
}

I'll see if I can narrow it down.

Edit -

ok, I copied the install, then removed KSPI 0.8 and installed KSPI 0.74. The docking worked.

Image (The image embedder doesn't like google docs)

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6qhKlFxd1PkN3I5emxlQVotSVk/edit?usp=sharing

New log file https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6qhKlFxd1PkQzZ4d0dJaVo1UzA/edit?usp=sharing

Hope that helps.

Russ

Edited November 26, 2013 by RussPixie
Tracking down Causes.

[Lewiskerbington]

It's automatic for new parts. Older parts that are left over should have an option to upgrade them in the right-click menu once you've unlocked the upgrade tech.

Thanks for the help!

[catastrophy]

[..]

It's automatic for new parts. Older parts that are left over should have an option to upgrade them in the right-click menu once you've unlocked the upgrade tech.

Thanks, I wondered how that works, too.

This mod (and the vanilla as well) could use a tech tree with more info revealed on the upcoming tech and the necessary requirements. Still on my first playtrough and I'm a bit clueless what to research.

[Srilania]

the update seems to be more and more of a headache. I can't get the processing part to rez unless it's the root, when the reactor shuts down and says "EVA REPAIRS REQUIRED. I EVA, and I get no options to do anything to the reactor. add to it the other headaches, and it's just a pit of frustration

[Fractal_UK]

the update seems to be more and more of a headache. I can't get the processing part to rez unless it's the root, when the reactor shuts down and says "EVA REPAIRS REQUIRED. I EVA, and I get no options to do anything to the reactor. add to it the other headaches, and it's just a pit of frustration

This must be something specific to your installation because the refinery loads and reloads fine for me. The only consistent problem I can find with the refinery is the missing tech entry, which is my fault, other players have definitely been able to use it successfully in sandbox mode and in career mode, after fixing the science entry.

As for the reactor, I only assume your Kerbal is not close enough to it, that is the only reason no EVA options would appear. Also, in response to your previous post, you have to shut down the reactor before you get any refueling options.

[Patupi]

the update seems to be more and more of a headache. I can't get the processing part to rez unless it's the root, when the reactor shuts down and says "EVA REPAIRS REQUIRED. I EVA, and I get no options to do anything to the reactor. add to it the other headaches, and it's just a pit of frustration

I've done some testing of upgrading to Thorium and had something similar. On one test with a 2.5m assembly (generator, reactor and thermal rocket) I could EVA and shut down the reactor and after waiting... days? Long cool down for the radioactive assembly!... anyway, it worked. Switched fuels on EVA, then manual restart. Later I tried it on a 3.75m assembly but EVA wouldn't bring up the shut down button. My ladder was pretty close to the reactor, but could there be a range problem with the Kerbal not being close enough to the center of mass of the reactor to bring up the button for manual shut down etc?

[Fractal_UK]

I've done some testing of upgrading to Thorium and had something similar. On one test with a 2.5m assembly (generator, reactor and thermal rocket) I could EVA and shut down the reactor and after waiting... days? Long cool down for the radioactive assembly!... anyway, it worked. Switched fuels on EVA, then manual restart. Later I tried it on a 3.75m assembly but EVA wouldn't bring up the shut down button. My ladder was pretty close to the reactor, but could there be a range problem with the Kerbal not being close enough to the center of mass of the reactor to bring up the button for manual shut down etc?

This is the earliest point it appears for me on the launchpad. It's perhaps a little later than ideal with the largest reactor but not too bad.

[123nick]

can you add more methane engines? like a 1-meter engine, or some lander engines of multiple sizes. also maybe different aluminum hybrid rocket sizes, or aluminum-oxidizer fuel tanks.

Edited November 26, 2013 by 123nick
added something

[RussPixie]

I've done a little more testing. On the install that has the docked lithium tanks, I removed KSPI 0.74 and installed KSPI 0.8 (all 3 folders).

I then started KSP and selected the LKO station in the tracking station. It took KSP a few moments to change to the craft, but after that pause, all seems ok. It would appear that it's something that's called when the craft docks.

Log file for completeness :

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6qhKlFxd1Pkdk1HWnhKUHNlWmM/edit?usp=sharing

Russ