[0.25]KSP Interstellar (Magnetic Nozzles, ISRU Revamp) Version 0.13

[Grunf911]

Well, with my 7.5GW (give or take) kerbin ground network, my shuttle* is currently on the other side of the sun from Kerbin, around 30Gm away I'd guess. I'm receiving 570MW when my small receivers are focused as closely as possible. That's getting me 22kn of thrust from my mono-propellant fueled plasma thrusters. (that's 0.07 Kerbol TWR for a 17 ton vessel).

Ok, how many receivers did you have on that craft that got 570 MW ?

So you got roughly a return of 7,6% which would then mean I (assuming 21GW network) would get 1,5 GW of power. Assuming I could burn Liquid to get there, and then Xenon to get back, it just might be viable. Also it gives me idea what to do. Add more boosters. Or more GW at Kerbin

My current test craft is roughly 50 ton drone carrier with 8 plasma cluster engines(but that one is going 1-way trip):

The return one should be manned vessel MUCH lighter, but i do not have image for it. That one has 8x 1,25m plasma and 1x 2,5m plasma engine. I am really missing 3,75m plasma engine though

[Kellas]

I had two small receivers, mounted on the wingtips with Infernal Robotics parts for easy orientation and ideal reception. Incidentally, that ship just got me over 3500 science and I now have fusion! More stuff to figure out.

[GavinZac]

I had two small receivers, mounted on the wingtips with Infernal Robotics parts for easy orientation and ideal reception. Incidentally, that ship just got me over 3500 science and I now have fusion! More stuff to figure out.

Speaking of which, while IR is a useful solution to this, I do wish there were a part that would just orientate itself towards the largest power source, as solar panels do for the sun.

[Grunf911]

Speaking of which, while IR is a useful solution to this, I do wish there were a part that would just orientate itself towards the largest power source, as solar panels do for the sun.

Hmm, so it would be a cross-mod, that looks for the MegaWatts value, and uses Infernal Robotics rotations / hinges to auto-orient itself to maintain maximum possible MegaWatt value. Now we just need to find the modder to do it ;-)

[GavinZac]

Hmm, so it would be a cross-mod, that looks for the MegaWatts value, and uses Infernal Robotics rotations / hinges to auto-orient itself to maintain maximum possible MegaWatt value. Now we just need to find the modder to do it ;-)

Well, maybe it could just be part of KSP Interstellar - it doesn't actually need to 'physically' move, which is what IR does. But I guess, if IR can be controlled by something like kOS (it's a long time since I looked at kOS), if kOS can access Interstellar's MW readout, it could just use a bubble sort to find the best position for the receiver at any point in time... I volunteer you to do it

[WaveFunctionP]

If you are going autotrack, you might as well remove the direction requirement altogether and have it only depend on distance, receiver area and line of sight. Microwave transmission is highly directional anyway, because of their narrow wavelength.

In this sense, interstellar has an unrealistic approach, with directional reception, but omnidirectional transmission. It should be point to point if realism is the goal.

So you have to decide between realism and gameplay.

Edited March 10, 2014 by WaveFunctionP

[Grunf911]

@WaveFunctionP - I think direction requirement is necessary, as it is the only "hindrance" of the Microwave/Plasma combo. I think the maker of the mod did it right, as otherwise that combo would really be OP. If you want reactor, your hindrance is weight, MW eliminates weight but gives you a direction requirement. Us here discussing autotracker is just an idea to respect mod mechanic, yet find a cool way how to do it. Otherwise we might remove many other mechanics, or just plain cheat.

On your second point Omnidirectional transmission is more-less required as it would be next to impossible to align visually tranceiver/receiver pairs. Alternative is RT2 approach with both omni and directional, which i think is unrealistic as MW transmission is highly directional anyway. I think it is a deliberate choice which works. So I'd say gameplay over realism in this case. (Fun does come from combo -> realistic BUT NOT tedious)

@GavinZac - thinking about WaveFunctionP's comment, i think this should be left as/is (beside the fact i am not crazy on coding with kOS ), as looking for signal (and finding it), is a mechanic that is part of the fun.

As the matter of fact, the more i go into Interstellar mod, the more i appreciate deliberate choices made by designers on making a truly endgame, yet not OP mod. Kudos to the mod devs :-)

[GavinZac]

omnidirectional transmission..

I have been worried about the health of my poor Kerbals, all now soaked in GWs of power at all times thanks to the omnidirectional transmitters

[WaveFunctionP]

@WaveFunctionP - I think direction requirement is necessary, as it is the only "hindrance" of the Microwave/Plasma combo. I think the maker of the mod did it right, as otherwise that combo would really be OP. If you want reactor, your hindrance is weight, MW eliminates weight but gives you a direction requirement. Us here discussing autotracker is just an idea to respect mod mechanic, yet find a cool way how to do it. Otherwise we might remove many other mechanics, or just plain cheat.

On your second point Omnidirectional transmission is more-less required as it would be next to impossible to align visually tranceiver/receiver pairs. Alternative is RT2 approach with both omni and directional, which i think is unrealistic as MW transmission is highly directional anyway. I think it is a deliberate choice which works. So I'd say gameplay over realism in this case. (Fun does come from combo -> realistic BUT NOT tedious)

@GavinZac - thinking about WaveFunctionP's comment, i think this should be left as/is (beside the fact i am not crazy on coding with kOS ), as looking for signal (and finding it), is a mechanic that is part of the fun.

As the matter of fact, the more i go into Interstellar mod, the more i appreciate deliberate choices made by designers on making a truly endgame, yet not OP mod. Kudos to the mod devs :-)

I tend to agree the current system is a nice mix of realism and gameplay. Pointing the antenna gives you something to do and be mindful of. Which is why I think that if you are going to have an autotracking feature, you might well just modify the receivers to be omnidirectional. Unless you do something to make the tracking fun itself. Gameplay is created from artificial limits, they can be inspired by realism or creative development.

For instance, you could have omni directional reception, but you'd need to monitor and adjust frequency alignment (red shift?), compensate for (interstellar?) interference, signal ghosts/echos all as minigame as you move through the system. There are plenty of ways to make fun.

Edited March 10, 2014 by WaveFunctionP

[db48x]

If you are going autotrack, you might as well remove the direction requirement altogether and have it only depend on distance, receiver area and line of sight. Microwave transmission is highly directional anyway, because of their narrow wavelength.

In this sense, interstellar has an unrealistic approach, with directional reception, but omnidirectional transmission. It should be point to point if realism is the goal.

So you have to decide between realism and gameplay.

It's primarily a technical restriction; KSP doesn't any craft but the current one or remember the orientation of an unloaded craft, so there's no straight-forward way for the mod to take the transmitter's orientation into account. It's also a small step to pretend that the transmission _is_ directional, but that mission control is adjusting the transmitter's orientation to match your current maneuver.

[db48x]

You're calling me a spoiled child, because I followed the steps that Fractal_UK gave me. I had already posted the results once, without a response. Therefore I was not sure whether I had been noticed. So I posted it again, with big letters so that it would be noticed. Calling me a spoiled child is actually really offensive. You should think a little more about what you're about to post, before you post it.

My comment was worded in too strong a manner; I apologize. Please note that I only commented on your actions, not your character (about which I have no information). Anyone may make a mistake, and using a large font like that is at least one step beyond using all caps, which you already know to avoid.

[agentexeider]

In sandbox all parts are fully upgraded asside from the ones that require manual upgrades (warp drive and computercore)

Yes, now we arrive back at my original question, how do you do this in sandbox mode now. How do you collect science, how do you do a manual upgrade.

I'm wondering if there is a bug, because the warp drive says: Advanced Geometry, but the higher warp values are NOT accessible.

[Makeone]

Ok, how many receivers did you have on that craft that got 570 MW ?

So you got roughly a return of 7,6% which would then mean I (assuming 21GW network) would get 1,5 GW of power. Assuming I could burn Liquid to get there, and then Xenon to get back, it just might be viable. Also it gives me idea what to do. Add more boosters. Or more GW at Kerbin

My current test craft is roughly 50 ton drone carrier with 8 plasma cluster engines(but that one is going 1-way trip):

http://i.imgur.com/OHTNsT1.png

The return one should be manned vessel MUCH lighter, but i do not have image for it. That one has 8x 1,25m plasma and 1x 2,5m plasma engine. I am really missing 3,75m plasma engine though

Nice vessel, expect....

You really don't need so many plasma thrusters, especially if you have limited power, as they share the power received and each engine give miniscule of power. One 0.625m plasma thruster has power limit of about 4GW, 1.25m version its 25GW and 2.5m its 200GW if i recall right. Thrust received is given a formula, but for liquid fuel (best Isp) it was something like 0.0152KN/MW, so 100MW gives 1,5KN of thrust... You would almost be better to carry a reactor with you, slightly better power available, depending where in career(?) tree you are. Once fusion is open, Vista is pretty much op if you don't need to land. Plasma thrusters could be good for maneuvering close to manned ship...

[wasmic]

My comment was worded in too strong a manner; I apologize. Please note that I only commented on your actions, not your character (about which I have no information). Anyone may make a mistake, and using a large font like that is at least one step beyond using all caps, which you already know to avoid.

No hard feelings. I just wanted to make sure that it got noticed, as it is a quite specific (solar panels with decouplers don't happen that often) but still very annoying bug.

[Nemesis1-1]

I can't find MechJeb in the interstellar tree, I changed the tech required to 'start' but it won't appear, any tips?

[ABZB]

I can't find MechJeb in the interstellar tree, I changed the tech required to 'start' but it won't appear, any tips?

Are you looking for the mechjeb AR-202 part?

If you modded the cfg file, make sure that you first deleted the line:

TechRequired = flightControl

and replaced it with:

TechRequired = start

(remember that capitalization counts here)

If that doesn't help, as you presumably have Module Manager:

1) create a new file whatever.cfg somewhere in the gamedata folder

2) copy and paste the follwing into that file:

@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleCommand], !MODULE[MechJebCore]]:Final

{

MODULE

{

name = MechJebCore

}

}

This will add the mechjeb functions to any and all command module that do not already have mechjeb installed in them (so you would not need to stick the AR202 on)

then see if mechjeb is on when you launch any ship.

If it is, then there is some issue with the part. but not the moduel

Also, mechjeb is supposed to implement only some of its features until later in the tech tree, but that only works with the stock tree. With the interstellar tree loaded, it starts with all features unlocked.

Edited March 10, 2014 by ABZB

[Grunf911]

Nice vessel, expect....

You really don't need so many plasma thrusters, especially if you have limited power, as they share the power received and each engine give miniscule of power. One 0.625m plasma thruster has power limit of about 4GW, 1.25m version its 25GW and 2.5m its 200GW if i recall right. Thrust received is given a formula, but for liquid fuel (best Isp) it was something like 0.0152KN/MW, so 100MW gives 1,5KN of thrust... You would almost be better to carry a reactor with you, slightly better power available, depending where in career(?) tree you are. Once fusion is open, Vista is pretty much op if you don't need to land. Plasma thrusters could be good for maneuvering close to manned ship...

@MakeOne - So are you saying 25 GW is max power a single 1,25m engine can take ? Lol, ok gotta many more transceivers to deploy then. I like the idea of maxing it out. I dont have fusion yet and i don't want to grind mun/minmus biomes any longer. Did most of them anyway, just not every 1 with new science gear. Since i got my first exploration in Eve orbit, now i am focusing on deploying a big MW power plant in Eve's orbit to ensure i have enough thrust for manned missions back. Since i use Tac Life support, cant risk missions taking too long.

Also how do i know if the reactor / generator is upgraded or not. That is something i cannot figure out

[BigD145]

I can't find MechJeb in the interstellar tree, I changed the tech required to 'start' but it won't appear, any tips?

You probably got the wrong version of MechJeb. Go here: http://jenkins.mumech.com/job/MechJeb2/

MechJeb works right out of the box with the Interstellar brand of the tech tree.

[John Crichton]

Just checking in to give props...great mod!

Managed to scratch together a pretty sweet little SSTO.

[Makeone]

@MakeOne - So are you saying 25 GW is max power a single 1,25m engine can take ? Lol, ok gotta many more transceivers to deploy then. I like the idea of maxing it out. I dont have fusion yet and i don't want to grind mun/minmus biomes any longer. Did most of them anyway, just not every 1 with new science gear. Since i got my first exploration in Eve orbit, now i am focusing on deploying a big MW power plant in Eve's orbit to ensure i have enough thrust for manned missions back. Since i use Tac Life support, cant risk missions taking too long.

Also how do i know if the reactor / generator is upgraded or not. That is something i cannot figure out

Normal nuclear reactors switch from molten salt to gas core, the other one becomes as dusty plasma (can't remember what it was before upgrade). Generator becomes KTEC and/or possibility to switch over direct conversion for dusty plasma nuke and fusion reactors. If you have nuclear reactor equipped ships in space when you open fusion, those ships reactors will get 'retrofit' button and it will cost some science to do it. Same affects to generators and radiators as well.

[merendel]

Also, mechjeb is supposed to implement only some of its features until later in the tech tree, but that only works with the stock tree. With the interstellar tree loaded, it starts with all features unlocked.

This has not been my experience. On my career save right now useing the interstellar tree MJ has appropriately locked its modules untill I unlock the right nodes for them. The only exception to this rule was due to another mod interaction. Rastar prop monitor allowed me to trigger a node execution from IVA even before I had the right MJ module unlocked. As it stands I still dont have the landing module cause I skiped that node. Since my only base requireing precice landing is on minmus right now its not a big deal, you dont have to be particularly efficent in that low gravity.

[mdapol]

On your second point Omnidirectional transmission is more-less required as it would be next to impossible to align visually tranceiver/receiver pairs. Alternative is RT2 approach with both omni and directional, which i think is unrealistic as MW transmission is highly directional anyway. I think it is a deliberate choice which works. So I'd say gameplay over realism in this case. (Fun does come from combo -> realistic BUT NOT tedious)

Not true. He could do something in the same vein as RemoteTech2. RT2 has directional dishes that need to be aligned with their counterparts to form a connection. There is no visual tracking though. You could make it that the transmitter has to be given a specific receiver it's sending to, and keep the current receiver behavior, since you are going to be piloting the receiving vessel anyway. Any other vessel will simply not receive power even if it is pointing in the right direction. That doesn't sound too hard to implement.

Relay satellites will be difficult to figure out though. Point-to-point this idea works well.

[ABZB]

This has not been my experience. On my career save right now useing the interstellar tree MJ has appropriately locked its modules untill I unlock the right nodes for them. The only exception to this rule was due to another mod interaction. Rastar prop monitor allowed me to trigger a node execution from IVA even before I had the right MJ module unlocked. As it stands I still dont have the landing module cause I skiped that node. Since my only base requireing precice landing is on minmus right now its not a big deal, you dont have to be particularly efficent in that low gravity.

Huh... mine has all unlocked in the regular bar from the start...

[Eeke]

So on a tangent note, I have a question about power generation:

1 KW = 1 ElectricCharge/S

a 1.25 Plasma Thruster (highest thrust fuel source) ~ 0.1 kN/MW

A Gigantor Solar Array produces 18 KW

The multiplier for being on top of the sun in Kerbal = 10x

Thus ~180 KW near the sun for each array.

2 GW of power nets you ~ 25 kN of thrust w/ liquid fuel, or so the wiki tells me.

So from that, that comes out to ~11k Gigantors required?

Yet at the same time the resource page for Interstellar says 2 Gigantors can match a 1.25 unupgraded Nuclear Reactor near the sun.

Would someone correct my math for me?

Thanks

[db48x]

So on a tangent note, I have a question about power generation:

1 KW = 1 ElectricCharge/S

a 1.25 Plasma Thruster (highest thrust fuel source) ~ 0.1 kN/MW

A Gigantor Solar Array produces 18 KW

The multiplier for being on top of the sun in Kerbal = 10x

Thus ~180 KW near the sun for each array.

2 GW of power nets you ~ 25 kN of thrust w/ liquid fuel, or so the wiki tells me.

So from that, that comes out to ~11k Gigantors required?

Yet at the same time the resource page for Interstellar says 2 Gigantors can match a 1.25 unupgraded Nuclear Reactor near the sun.

Would someone correct my math for me?

Thanks

The mod fixes the solar panels so that they follow a real inverse-square law. If you have the delta to get really close then you can generate a fair amount of power. Don't forget the radiators.