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[0.25]KSP Interstellar (Magnetic Nozzles, ISRU Revamp) Version 0.13

Fractal_UK

By Fractal_UK
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Fractal_UK

Fractal_UK

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Sorry about the delay on the update all. The TechManager update that would allow me to release an updated Interstellar fell at just the wrong time for me to get anything out last week.

I'll be back to work on Interstellar over the next few days so I'll keep you updated on progress.

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NeoAcario

NeoAcario

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Sorry about the delay on the update all. The TechManager update that would allow me to release an updated Interstellar fell at just the wrong time for me to get anything out last week.

I'll be back to work on Interstellar over the next few days so I'll keep you updated on progress.

Thanks for all of your hard work, Fractal! And don't forget to un-nerf thermal rockets!

~Steve

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Northstar1989

Northstar1989

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Posted
Sorry about the delay on the update all. The TechManager update that would allow me to release an updated Interstellar fell at just the wrong time for me to get anything out last week.

I'll be back to work on Interstellar over the next few days so I'll keep you updated on progress.

Awesome.

Two concerns I wanted to voice, though, Fractal.

First, I've been hearing a lot lately about the capping of thermal rocket ISP. Does it really make sense to create a universal cap on Specific Impulse across all fuels though? Think about it- a molecule of Hydrogen (aka. LiquidFuel if you're not using RealFuels) and a molecule of Methane leaving a thermal rocket nozzle at the same temperature are going to have DRASTICALLY different molecular velocities. Wouldn't it make more sense to cap the Specific Impulse on a per-propellant basis: i.e. so that "Liquidfuel-only" mode has a different ISP than Meth/LOX when using Antimatter reactors that reach the ISP caps?

Second, what about the stuff I mentioned before? Fixes to the Meth/LOX engine TWR/ISP values. The creation of a "Nitrogen" resource (you could literally copy the values for Nitrogen from RealFuels mod if you wanted- then you would have realistic values without doing any work...), the ability to harvest Nitrogen using Atmosphere Scoops, and the ability to use Nitrogen in plasma thrusters like in real life?

Regards,

Northstar

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theend3r

theend3r

Posted
Posted
Thanks for all of your hard work, Fractal! And don't forget to un-nerf thermal rockets!

~Steve

This. I need a reason to use them. Maybe include a 3.5 thermal turbojet too, it'd be just a rescale and I need something for my ultra SSTOs :)

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ABZB

ABZB

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Posted (edited)
This. I need a reason to use them. Maybe include a 3.5 thermal turbojet too, it'd be just a rescale and I need something for my ultra SSTOs :)

Those are tweakscalable - just stick the following somewhere in a .cfg:

//these tell TweakScale that the 'radius' scales linearly - i.e. that doubling size from 1.25 to 2.5 multiplies the radius by 2^1. (the # that the variable is equal to is the exponent by which the multiplier-to-size is raised)

TWEAKSCALEEXPONENTS

{

name = FNNozzleControllerFX

radius = 1

}

TWEAKSCALEEXPONENTS

{

name = FNNozzleController

radius = 1

}

@PART[smallerThermalRocketNozzle] // 62.5cm Thermal Rocket Nozzle

{

MODULE

{

name = TweakScale

type = stack

defaultScale = 0.625

}

}

@PART[ThermalTurbojet] // 1.25m Thermal Turbojet

{

MODULE

{

name = TweakScale

type = stack

defaultScale = 1.25

}

}

@PART[smallThermalRocketNozzle] // 1.25m Thermal Rocket Nozzle

{

MODULE

{

name = TweakScale

type = stack

defaultScale = 1.25

}

}

@PART[ThermalRocketNozzle] // 2.5m Thermal Rocket Nozzle

{

MODULE

{

name = TweakScale

type = stack

defaultScale = 2.5

}

}

@PART[ThermalTurbojet2] // 2.5m Thermal Turbojet

{

MODULE

{

name = TweakScale

type = stack

defaultScale = 2.5

}

}

@PART[bigThermalRocketNozzle] // 3.75m Thermal Rocket Nozzle

{

MODULE

{

name = TweakScale

type = stack

defaultScale = 3.75

}

}

}

EDIT:

Here is my .cfg from my dropbox

https://www.dropbox.com/s/5qdgwf7vah52wiw/Interstellar_TweakScale.cfg?dl=0

Delete any warp.cfg in the tweakscale folder first (lest you get duplicate modules on parts)

Edited by ABZB
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Bamse

Bamse

Posted
Posted (edited)

*Edit: Did the old deleta-roo with mods that threw NREs until EPL worked as intended, was Science Alert all along, so disregard my noobish bug-report. I shall now go pester that thread instead*

Also thanks for a coremod in all my KSP games, Fractal. Keep up the awesome work!

(Just broke 1000 hours since Steam release, been playing since 0.15)

Edited by Bamse
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NeoAcario

NeoAcario

Posted
Posted
Also thanks for a coremod in all my KSP games, Fractal. Keep up the awesome work!

This, exactly this. Kethane used to be my core mod... until I came accross KSPI. I won't play if KSPI isn't working on the current KSP version. I can't thank Fractal enough for his work. That said... it makes me want to cry when he cripples his own work in a way we can't easily fix.

I don't suppose any of you people that mod for KSPI in their own time have a current .dll with the old dV values for Thermal rockets?

~Steve

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ghost22

ghost22

Posted
Posted

So the Attila engine how can I use diffrent fuels? on the wiki it says xenon is the best one to use for more thrust but I cant toggle that fuel type in flight I also cant see the thrust to weight or delta v I get with mechjeb but if I use liqued fuel I see the delta v and thrust to weight I also cant see the thrust to weight or delta v if I use monoprop :(

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FreeThinker

FreeThinker

Posted
Posted (edited)

Question,

I want to Modify the Particle Accelerator of Station Shience to generate AntiMater. This obviously requires huge amount of power. The question is, how much power? How much power would it realisticly need generate a one unit of antimater ? I Guess it cost at least the amount of power as it released when it's used and multiply that by 10. I tried to look a the antimater config files but it's not clear what the conversion rate is between Antimapter to (Power + Heat + Waterheat + Radiation). Could anyone clarify?

Edited by FreeThinker
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VictorTadeu

VictorTadeu

Posted
Posted (edited)

So, this mod seens very very good, but I'm wondering if it's compatible with any other good mod.

I mean, I think MechJeb, Ferram, AlarmClock are all good to go, but what about other mods that adds part? I mean, mods like B9 they will be compatible but wont they break balance? I was thinking to try Better Than Start Manned, but since it's basically rework the tech tree it's a no go, right? What about Kethane and KAS?

For short... there any mod you guys can recommend to play alongside with Interstellar with no or minor tweaks?

Edited by VictorTadeu
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undercoveryankee

undercoveryankee

Posted
Posted
So, this mod seens very very good, but I'm wondering if it's compatible with any other good mod.

I mean, I think MechJeb, Ferram, AlarmClock are all good to go, but what about other mods that adds part? I mean, mods like B9 they will be compatible but wont they break balance? I was thinking to try Better Than Start Manned, but since it's basically rework the tech tree it's a no go, right? What about Kethane?

For short... there any mod you guys can recommend to play alongside with Interstellar with no or minor tweaks?

Since the Interstellar tech tree supersets the stock tree, any parts pack that doesn't recommend its own tech tree is safe to add. It's cool to combine MKS/OKS living spaces with Interstellar engines. I did write a few config patches to improve sharing of resource data (see my signature), but all of those tweaks install to their own folder just like an easy mod install. Scott Manley's Interstellar Quest videos include a lot of Interstellar-powered ships with B9 plane parts. Just skip B9's HX-series big-scifi-ship parts or move them to the end of the tree.

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undercoveryankee

undercoveryankee

Posted
Posted
Question,

I want to Modify the Particle Accelerator of Station Shience to generate AntiMater. This obviously requires huge amount of power. The question is, how much power? How much power would it realisticly need generate a one unit of antimater ? I Guess it cost at least the amount of power as it released when it's used and multiply that by 10. I tried to look a the antimater config files but it's not clear what the conversion rate is between Antimapter to (Power + Heat + Waterheat + Radiation). Could anyone clarify?

The theoretical optimum is energy equal (under E=mc^2) to the rest mass of the output antimatter and an equal quantity of matter. 1 unit of antimatter is 10^-9 ton (= 1 milligram) if I've counted the zeros in the config file right. 2 milligrams times c squared comes out to 179.8 gigajoules per unit of antimatter. If you're using ElectricCharge at the Interstellar setting of 1 EC = 1 kilojoule, that's about 179,800,000 EC to 1 AM.

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NeoAcario

NeoAcario

Posted
Posted
Why not? Isn't it just in the part config files? You can edit those with any text editor.

You obviously didn't look before you spoke. ISP values are not in part config files. If you know how to change the ISP within the .cfg files... please share with us.

~Steve

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teepee2345

teepee2345

Posted
Posted 


BASIC_NTR_PROPELLANT
{
	name = Hydrolox
	guiName = LFO
	ispMultiplier = 0.6
	isLFO = true
	PROPELLANT
	{
		name = LiquidFuel
        	ratio = 0.9
		DrawGauge = True
	}
	PROPELLANT
	{
		name = Oxidizer
		ratio = 1.1
		DrawGauge = False
	}
}
BASIC_NTR_PROPELLANT
{
	name = Hydrogen
	guiName = Liquid
	ispMultiplier = 1
	isLFO = false
	PROPELLANT
	{
		name = LiquidFuel
        	ratio = 1
		DrawGauge = True
	}
}
BASIC_NTR_PROPELLANT
{
	name = Kethane
	guiName = Kethane
	ispMultiplier = 0.56
	isLFO = false
	PROPELLANT
	{
		name = Kethane
        	ratio = 1
		DrawGauge = True
	}
}
BASIC_NTR_PROPELLANT
{
	name = Methane
	guiName = LiquidMethane
	ispMultiplier = 0.56
	isLFO = false
	PROPELLANT
	{
		name = LqdMethane
        	ratio = 1
		DrawGauge = True
	}
}
BASIC_NTR_PROPELLANT
{
	name = Methalox
	guiName = MethaLOx
	ispMultiplier = 0.336
	isLFO = true
	PROPELLANT
	{
		name = LqdMethane
        	ratio = 0.77727
		DrawGauge = True
	}
	PROPELLANT
	{
		name = Oxidizer
        	ratio = 1
		DrawGauge = false
	}
}
BASIC_NTR_PROPELLANT
{
	name = Water
	guiName = Water
	ispMultiplier = 0.4714
	isLFO = false
	PROPELLANT
	{
		name = LqdWater
        	ratio = 1
		DrawGauge = True
	}
}
BASIC_NTR_PROPELLANT
{
	name = Ammonia
	guiName = Ammonia
	ispMultiplier = 0.6303
	isLFO = false
	PROPELLANT
	{
		name = Ammonia
        	ratio = 1
		DrawGauge = True
	}
}

edit the value "ispMultiplier"

EDIT: in Warpplugin\EnginePropellants.cfg.

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NeoAcario

NeoAcario

Posted
Posted 

BASIC_NTR_PROPELLANT
{
	name = Hydrolox
	guiName = LFO
	ispMultiplier = 0.6
	isLFO = true
	PROPELLANT
	{
		name = LiquidFuel
        	ratio = 0.9
		DrawGauge = True
	}
	PROPELLANT
	{
		name = Oxidizer
		ratio = 1.1
		DrawGauge = False
	}
}
BASIC_NTR_PROPELLANT
{
	name = Hydrogen
	guiName = Liquid
	ispMultiplier = 1
	isLFO = false
	PROPELLANT
	{
		name = LiquidFuel
        	ratio = 1
		DrawGauge = True
	}
}
BASIC_NTR_PROPELLANT
{
	name = Kethane
	guiName = Kethane
	ispMultiplier = 0.56
	isLFO = false
	PROPELLANT
	{
		name = Kethane
        	ratio = 1
		DrawGauge = True
	}
}
BASIC_NTR_PROPELLANT
{
	name = Methane
	guiName = LiquidMethane
	ispMultiplier = 0.56
	isLFO = false
	PROPELLANT
	{
		name = LqdMethane
        	ratio = 1
		DrawGauge = True
	}
}
BASIC_NTR_PROPELLANT
{
	name = Methalox
	guiName = MethaLOx
	ispMultiplier = 0.336
	isLFO = true
	PROPELLANT
	{
		name = LqdMethane
        	ratio = 0.77727
		DrawGauge = True
	}
	PROPELLANT
	{
		name = Oxidizer
        	ratio = 1
		DrawGauge = false
	}
}
BASIC_NTR_PROPELLANT
{
	name = Water
	guiName = Water
	ispMultiplier = 0.4714
	isLFO = false
	PROPELLANT
	{
		name = LqdWater
        	ratio = 1
		DrawGauge = True
	}
}
BASIC_NTR_PROPELLANT
{
	name = Ammonia
	guiName = Ammonia
	ispMultiplier = 0.6303
	isLFO = false
	PROPELLANT
	{
		name = Ammonia
        	ratio = 1
		DrawGauge = True
	}
}

edit the value "ispMultiplier"

EDIT: in Warpplugin\EnginePropellants.cfg.

This changes the ISP for all Interstellar parts that use these fuels... not just the Thermal Nozzles and Turbo Jets. Something I'd like to avoid. Believe it or not.. most of us use more than just thermals. I'm beginning to wonder if that's what Fractal thinks also.

~Steve

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VictorTadeu

VictorTadeu

Posted
Posted
Since the Interstellar tech tree supersets the stock tree, any parts pack that doesn't recommend its own tech tree is safe to add. It's cool to combine MKS/OKS living spaces with Interstellar engines. I did write a few config patches to improve sharing of resource data (see my signature), but all of those tweaks install to their own folder just like an easy mod install. Scott Manley's Interstellar Quest videos include a lot of Interstellar-powered ships with B9 plane parts. Just skip B9's HX-series big-scifi-ship parts or move them to the end of the tree.

Thanks! I will try your work! I downloaded MKS and your file and removed Kethane, since it seens redundant now. It's a long since last time I played, but I already modded the techtree before and I may do it again for B9 and KAS where I see it's needed to work better with KAS. Unfortunately, like I said, long time since last time I played so I may have some trouble balancing this stuff out so I'm open to suggestions!

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undercoveryankee

undercoveryankee

Posted
Posted
This changes the ISP for all Interstellar parts that use these fuels... not just the Thermal Nozzles and Turbo Jets. Something I'd like to avoid. Believe it or not.. most of us use more than just thermals. I'm beginning to wonder if that's what Fractal thinks also.

~Steve

The BASIC_NTR_PROPELLANT nodes control only thermal engines (either standard thermal nozzles or upgraded thermal turbojets in propellant-using mode). There are separate config files for plasma and ATTILA thrusters, and the Vista kind of does its own thing.

Here's the rationale for capping the Isp of thermal rockets: the Isp being proportional to the square root of the operating temperature is based on the physics governing thermal rockets at fission-reactor temperatures. 3000 seconds corresponds to the temperature where the heat is enough to ionize the propellant or destroy a non-magnetic nozzle, meaning the low-temperature equation is no longer realistic above that point.

Adding the limit makes the combination of antimatter reactor/generator/plasma thruster more interesting, and it makes the combination of multi-gigawatt reactor and thermal rocket more useful for high-thrust cargo-to-orbit applications.

We do lose some of the things we were used to doing with unrestricted thermal rockets. Some of those were unrealistic enough that any direct replacement should come from a softer-science mod and not Interstellar. Some can be adequately covered using other Interstellar engines. For some, there are approaches based on sound theory that the community could model within the spirit of Interstellar.

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Fractal_UK

Fractal_UK

Posted
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Posted (edited)
The BASIC_NTR_PROPELLANT nodes control only thermal engines (either standard thermal nozzles or upgraded thermal turbojets in propellant-using mode). There are separate config files for plasma and ATTILA thrusters, and the Vista kind of does its own thing.

Here's the rationale for capping the Isp of thermal rockets: the Isp being proportional to the square root of the operating temperature is based on the physics governing thermal rockets at fission-reactor temperatures. 3000 seconds corresponds to the temperature where the heat is enough to ionize the propellant or destroy a non-magnetic nozzle, meaning the low-temperature equation is no longer realistic above that point.

Adding the limit makes the combination of antimatter reactor/generator/plasma thruster more interesting, and it makes the combination of multi-gigawatt reactor and thermal rocket more useful for high-thrust cargo-to-orbit applications.

We do lose some of the things we were used to doing with unrestricted thermal rockets. Some of those were unrealistic enough that any direct replacement should come from a softer-science mod and not Interstellar. Some can be adequately covered using other Interstellar engines. For some, there are approaches based on sound theory that the community could model within the spirit of Interstellar.

This is entirely the rationale behind the change.

I'm certainly open to suggestions about small changes to thermal rocket performance, NorthStar made a good point about a universal specific impulse cap for all propellants not being as elegant as properly accounting for the temperature of different elements a couple of pages back and I certainly will take that into account in future changes. The exact value of the cap, in whatever form it takes in the future, could be tweaked as well but I'm not considering going back to how things were before.

I know it is a big change and I knew that some people wouldn't like it when I made it but ultimately I feel it is both a realism improvement and a gameplay improvement because the thermal rockets were just too good before. Other engines could be competitive with thermal rockets but only in a particular range of use cases while the thermal rockets performed generally excellently in all use cases. Having to make a tradeoff between different performance considerations is a nice thing, so despite it removing a cool toy, I think it is a change that makes the range of options available in Interstellar more interesting.

Could someone do me the favor of explaining like I'm a small idiotic child how to get the DT Vista engine to work? My density has surpassed my expectations.

Make sure you have a reactor and generator on your ship capable of powering it - it has fixed power requirements (2.5GW) that do not vary with your throttle setting (due to its variable Isp performance) and make sure you're well away from any Kerbals/crewed ships (or disable the radiation safety features and be willing to kill your nearby Kerbals).

Edited by Fractal_UK
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