About the Tech tree

[arq]

I like the idea of going out and scanning for anomalies (not necessarily the same as easter eggs) on other bodies and in space. Discovering an anomaly and exploring it (either going there and sending back data or physically bringing back a sample) will award science points, which can be used to advance down the tech tree.

[Piggius_Max]

Folder. System. In. VAB. Please.

This is the only thing I ask for, I'd be happy with the game if development were to finish tomorrow, provided a simple folder system was prominent in that build.

Back on topic: The tech tree should be interesting, I don't know if/how tech is to be obtained, unless it's contracts for money/research or money that you can spend on research, but who knows; I'll leave that to the devs

[Necandi Brasil]

*Crosses fingers*

This R&D update is going to be awesome !

[geb]

Ooh, there's another handoff that will need to be done for science, though I think someone else mentioned it here as well. Apollo style mission. LEM goes down, gathers physical science data, links up with the orbiter. We need some way for the orbiter to now have credit for the physical results, because the LEM isn't going to be landing back on Kerbin. I'm not sure it matters if the credit is copied or transfered, as long as we can't turn in the same results twice.

Now I'm imagining transferring data just like we do with fuel transfers. Right click on some science package, alt-click on the mothership, and "input data".

Yes, this would be an awful way to handle it, but the idea amuses me.

[triffid_hunter]

I posted about this earlier. MechJeb allows you to blacklist modules on a per-part basis, so there's no reason you couldn't create a logical progression of parts/features that would unlock at certain points in the tree.

I think if it's done this way then we'd end up with a whole page of various MechJeb parts with different capabilities, unless the tech tree provides a way to obsolete older parts. Then we have the issue of old ships can't plot the new maneuvers despite the fact that we all know how easy firmware upgrades are with basically everything, and it still doesn't follow the player's piloting ability, it simply follows their ability to gain science

I'd much prefer MechJeb's abilities to follow the player's ability to pilot rather than a simple stack of parts with varying utility in the tech tree

[Moon Goddess]

I think if it's done this way then we'd end up with a whole page of various MechJeb parts with different capabilities, unless the tech tree provides a way to obsolete older parts. Then we have the issue of old ships can't plot the new maneuvers despite the fact that we all know how easy firmware upgrades are with basically everything, and it still doesn't follow the player's piloting ability, it simply follows their ability to gain science

I'd much prefer MechJeb's abilities to follow the player's ability to pilot rather than a simple stack of parts with varying utility in the tech tree

Why is any of this in this thread?

Harvestr has said multiple times in this thread they are no making any desicion for mod makers, all the mod makers will have to choose how and if their stuff goes into career mode.

So why not take this conversation to the MechJeb thread and try to convince the MechJeb devs of your ideas?

[Beeman]

I think if it's done this way then we'd end up with a whole page of various MechJeb parts with different capabilities, unless the tech tree provides a way to obsolete older parts. Then we have the issue of old ships can't plot the new maneuvers despite the fact that we all know how easy firmware upgrades are with basically everything, and it still doesn't follow the player's piloting ability, it simply follows their ability to gain science

I'd much prefer MechJeb's abilities to follow the player's ability to pilot rather than a simple stack of parts with varying utility in the tech tree

I think it'd be a good idea if they had like...well, essentially a firmware update type of deal like you mentioned as part of the tech tree. Perhaps SAS, communications parts and even some mod parts like protractor, mechjeb or kerbal engineer could improve over time without needing a new part to fill the role. New technology could just expand the functionality of those old computer parts.

This could expand to command modules as well. Perhaps you start with very limited ability to plot courses through space and doing flight science like testing rockets and basic orbital mechanics without exploding could help you unlock the maneuver node system...then maybe a few tech levels later, you can expand the maneuver node system a bit to plot multiple nodes after each other and so on.

I think that would work well in conjunction with making some older or prototype parts obsolete so they don't show up in the VAB...or maybe have their own tab for outdated parts. Somethin' like that, anyways.

[regex]

I'd much prefer MechJeb's abilities to follow the player's ability to pilot

I'm sorry to say but you really can't quantify a player's ability to pilot in a mechanical way. Any attempt at that will be arbitrary and frustrating to everyone involved, except perhaps the person who wrote it.

Obsoleting old parts would be pretty cool, though.

[Gaiabladegold]

This looks to be another promising update already! I'm really excited we're getting into this sort of things, looking foreward to whenever it comes out, hopefully soon but never should rush a good thing!

All in all, go Devs! keep up the amazing work, really looking foreward to more awesome stuff from you guys. ^^

[manskal]

To stop experiment spamming :

Make the experiments costly and sensitive. That way you cannot be too cavalier with your science packages.

Also, make different levels of experiments that collect the same type of data but at varying qualities. They should be integrated into the tech tree. So in the early game you might have a one-shot rock analysis experiment but later you have a much more expensive experiment that can take multiple readings.

Or something like that. I'm sure the devs have plenty of time to balance it out before release.

[brienne]

We know exactly how many planets do exist, where exactly they are...

We know that our vessel is 82 654m high, 1645 m/s, ....

Tech lvl should put a mess in that^^

"I d like to go to Duna, ... but where is it? Does the point I'm aiming for is really the place where Duna will be?"

"I feel I'm not 45m high, but +- 20m"

Space pioneers didn't know what exactly was going to happen during next fly. And managed to handle with rough datas.

My 2 cents.

[rkman]

Before we get comms antenna's would we have to physically go and get it?

That would mean we'd be forced to first do manned missions, which are more technologically challenging than unmanned missions. That would be backwards wrt advancement in the tech tree.

I'd argue radio is sufficiently low tech that a simple form of radio comms should be available early in the game.

[NERVAfan]

We know exactly how many planets do exist, where exactly they are...

We know that our vessel is 82 654m high, 1645 m/s, ....

Tech lvl should put a mess in that^^

"I d like to go to Duna, ... but where is it? Does the point I'm aiming for is really the place where Duna will be?"

All the major planets and their orbits were known before the Space Age. There were very small discrepancies in Mercury's orbit that were resolved by Einstein's theory of relativity, so even at the beginning of the 20th century the orbits were very precisely known.

[EleSigma]

It starts with mid-sized engines actually (LV-T series). Going larger or smaller are both advancements.

Cheers

Wait, Wouldn't it make more sense for a medium sized LV-1 to be the first engine? Since it's called an LV-1, implying it's the first...of something.

[Kimberly]

That would mean we'd be forced to first do manned missions, which are more technologically challenging than unmanned missions. That would be backwards wrt advancement in the tech tree.

I'd argue radio is sufficiently low tech that a simple form of radio comms should be available early in the game.

Exactly. You do manned missions because you can score more science points, and partially for the bragging rights. You do them not because they are easy, but because they are hard.

[Beeman]

Exactly. You do manned missions because you can score more science points, and partially for the bragging rights. You do them not because they are easy, but because they are hard.

Manned missions are more difficult in real life but not really in KSP, unless they ever actually add life support(they still seem on the fence about it). So there wouldn't be much bragging and it wouldn't be paced very well if you start the game with huge science earning manned missions then unlock low-tech probe stuffs >.>

[marko dash]

different culture, different value of their lives. manned would be much cheaper if you didn't care as much about the safety of the crew.

[trvtannenberg]

different culture, different value of their lives. manned would be much cheaper if you didn't care as much about the safety of the crew.

And much, much shorter.

[kurja]

science parts that

-can only be activated in EVA

-need to be active for a given time to yield results

-need a kerbal onboard to activate

-need x number of kerbals onboard to activate

-yield results when activated and impact a celestial object

-get unlocked in tech tree after science part z has been used for y science points

-can only be activated when.....

Ah, the possibilities =D I don't think Squad will have trouble creating incentive to do manned missions instead of just probes, and vice versa. Manned missions would also be much more expensive, and presumably there would eventually be missions with pre-determined goals too, requiring whatever parts and number of crew members to be onboard to be successful.

Edited August 20, 2013 by kurja

[Levelord]

Exactly. You do manned missions because you can score more science points, and partially for the bragging rights. You do them not because they are easy, but because they are hard.

But the United States still had to take baby steps with practicing low earth orbit launches, maneuvers, docking, life support, space suit design, unmanned satellite launches to learn how to get to the moon in the first place. They didn't simply grab all their stuff and launched for the moon first and then decided to work backwards to making satellites and unmanned landers.

[geb]

Has there been any suggestion of difficulty levels in research?

I vaguely recall the devs talking about difficulty settings like a harcore mode with no crew respawning. If research is to be a resource, you could have difficulty levels there too.

You could, for example, have easy mode where a few suborbital trips gets you all the bits you need for a Mun landing (big engines, lander cans, landing legs, etc.), but to get all the same tech in hard mode you'd have to really push at high altitude jet flights and science in low orbit, performing lots more experiments.

[brienne]

All the major planets and their orbits were known before the Space Age. There were very small discrepancies in Mercury's orbit that were resolved by Einstein's theory of relativity, so even at the beginning of the 20th century the orbits were very precisely known.

KSP shows exactly what s gonna happen. I push prograde and I see what changes. They could make that Tech tree related.

And how do I know I travel 1645m/s in space? Low tech can't tell me that.

Just an idea to give datas sharper as your tech level increase.

[Kimberly]

But the United States still had to take baby steps with practicing low earth orbit launches, maneuvers, docking, life support, space suit design, unmanned satellite launches to learn how to get to the moon in the first place. They didn't simply grab all their stuff and launched for the moon first and then decided to work backwards to making satellites and unmanned landers.

That was my point, wasn't it?

[iamaphazael]

KSP shows exactly what s gonna happen. I push prograde and I see what changes. They could make that Tech tree related.

And how do I know I travel 1645m/s in space? Low tech can't tell me that.

Just an idea to give datas sharper as your tech level increase.

I agree with this idea, and I'm sure the devs are thinking about it, as it fits in with the idea of game progression following the development progression. Perhaps at the very beginning of a career game, you don't have access to maneuver nodes, orbital prediction, perhaps even map mode is disabled, and you have to unlock those things by flying a few missions by the seat of your pants.

[lazarus1024]

SQUAD could do two things to provide an incentive to do boots on the ground missions.

1) They could provide some kind of science points in a catagory (or just in general) for having a Kerbal there. Maybe a 25% bonus if the science research is done with a manned capsule/rover/etc?

2) Or a few of the science instruments may only be usable by a kerbal. There isn't a whole lot that a person can't do that a robot/probe can't in real life...but this is Kerbal. Maybe soil samplers or rock drills or something can be used by Kerbals on EVA? Dunno, its a thought.