Easy "mass graveyards"/ debris fields (Also a little bit of side tracking and pics)

[Joel Dryden]

I generally used to delete/retrieve all debris, but after leaving a few planes around the run way, it grew on me, so I wanted a nice vehicle graveyard but was only left with the piece a pilot was in, upon going back to the space centre. Generally most pieces are obliterated and you don't get a nice pile, so I was doing controlled crashes at just less than 12m/s to destroy an object or two and scatter the rest, but it wouldn't produce all the debris when I would later load, I wondered if this was intentional or if it was a possible auto deleted because of some un-met parameter as I'm warned when I exit a vehicle about my thrust setting, etc.

So I made a pretty dodgy helicopter with the "Fire spitter" mod and crashed it into the SPH, cutting all thrust/engine power just before and the whole pile was there

A little bit of useless information, but some people might like to make a little graveyard, just hit x before the crash and you should be able to keep all the pieces.

Also, found out, even if you have still have thrust going on a part, but can't get it down because of a lack of power to the disconnected part, having a Kerbal stand ontop of the piece forces it to stay, which is nice, could potentially use that auto debris/object upon object thing, to make easy deployment platforms for rovers that were persistent and what not.

Was just wondering if the Dev's meant on most things disappearing or if it just tended to happen because you've generally got thrust up during staging (unless you kinda NEED to hit x, because you've put boosters just near some wings and they tend to smash into the rest of your ship, so you need to stop thrusting, which then get's some persistent debris if any of it survives, having stopped thrust) thus creating the parameter of, the object wouldn't of been able to "save" and stay, being thrusted up, so it just vanishes but if you were to thrust down, you'd save all those supply drops, that you waited for to hit the ground, etc. will test this as mentioned.

Has anyone else noticed the forced deletion of debris only when it is trusted up? Only tested this on the ground, but it came back upon relaunch of another vehicle so I'm assuming it was persistent, would this be a work around the 2.5Km disappearing thing? Simply by having killed the engines? Haven't tested that yet, will do so now with a simple drone deployment thing, off a jet, cutting the engines before dropping the payload to see if I'm able to leave it without it disappearing on me.

Kinda wish I knew this when I first got the game a few months ago for moments like below, would've given me so much more reason to never revert and just let everything happen, tests and all.

Also, side note, just wondering. What's the largest payload you've been able to land on the Mun, from Kerbin all in one go (Should be able to go back to Kerbin too, but not required, mods welcome too but not ridiculous, just balance like KW, Nova, Kethane, etc). This is mine:

666T or so on launch, 160T payload give or take, that being with all the Kethane tanks empty, it holds about 17800Kethane when full, barely able to land (Can just with not very much Delta-V by the end of the whole thing, but lift of is easy, with the whole mining/converting thing) so it ends up pretty heavy. Launch is kinda slow, don't remember the part count sorry D:

It's not pretty but I was just wondering if I could make a decent sized Mun base in the one go, all with the one launch, I love docking, it's incredibly fun and would make a lot more sense to just send done "mining needles" that can just fit a butt ton of tanks on it, to then just bring back up to a converting station, but I wanted the all in one package, launched all at once.

Seems ridiculous, no one answered my last post asking about the last question, I'm assuming it just seemed ridiculous asking people if they often launch payloads of over 150T (Being at the last stage). I generally like the make them minimalistic, but it's fun to be ridiculous sometimes. Sorry to spam a bit more, but just gonna paste the described above mission as well for the sake of it.

Launch Bill and Jeb both seem rather calm, considering the pile of explosives they're sitting on top of.

Just a bit further until orbit, already at 1.6km/s on the h axis, pretty sure it's only about 2.2km/s-2.4km/s needed, just guessing probably wrong considering I'm new lol. Like having plenty of D/v

Now we're on the Mun Bill and Jeb are now ready to mine and convert much needed resources to get back home, to resupply a Kethane station and return to establish more of a colony but this single thing works as a nice base, kinda heavy.

Didn't seem to have any photos of the Mun intercept/orbit, nor the close pass by the Mapping sat I sent prior to this to spot the area.

Also this... It had nothing to do with anything from the above, I just figured, going in turn with the rest of the post I'd re-direct the topic again to nowhere, to bring this to an end, just like the sad Kerbal out side this window.

He would've been saved but Jeb wanted to know what happened to Kerbal's that met the Sun (That's our name for the thing, aren't they stars? Do I call this Kerbol or is this still a taboo subject? Just name the thing twinkle or some **** if people argue between Sun and Kerbol), it turns out it's very similar to standing underneath a rocket.

[arq]

Maybe you could enable 'no crash damage' (or w/e it's called) in the debug menu (alt+f12)?

The largest payload I've put in LKO (that I remember the tonnage of) was 409t. It was a fuel-tanker (prob 350t worth of fuel). Took prob 30 iterations to keep it together through launch (I try not to overkill with struts).

[Whatshtisthis]

Well, you can probably try raising the landing gear of planes that are landing for plane debris.

[Joel Dryden]

Maybe you could enable 'no crash damage' (or w/e it's called) in the debug menu (alt+f12)?

That's granted as advice for trying to make the pieces not explode on impact (Not what I was asking), but that's not what I was pushing at plus I want to be able to make an "authentic graveyard" without hacking grav or any of that stuff, my work around for that part was controlled crashing at less than 12-10m/s, I was stating that normally the debris would eventually delete itself after you managed to keep it on the ground, but that's because of the fact if something is throttled up, you can't go to the main screen while it is selected, without them disappearing, I was more implying that this method makes the debris stay around, instead of simply disappearing (except for manned debris pieces).

It also removes that pesky 2.5Km disappearing barrier on ejected parts (Say for a deployable rover from a plane).

I'm sure you've noticed as you eject pieces flying along, or if you've done a fly by and dropped a rover/probe off, it'll dissappear if you get 2.5Km away, unless it touches down and has a remote control or is manned. Killing thrust makes that stop happening, it seems to be a bug, related to being unable to save/go to the tracking station when you're using peices, pieces that came off your ship as you were using it and crashed it, will count as if you're powered up and cannot actually be saved, period, possibly related to the 2.5Km distance thing (After it leaves a certain field, it disappears and becomes the save log data, in the case of powered up things, they are discarded as they cannot be saved?).

he largest payload I've put in LKO (that I remember the tonnage of) was 409t. It was a fuel-tanker (prob 350t worth of fuel). Took prob 30 iterations to keep it together through launch (I try not to overkill with struts).

Wow, that's incredible, how large was the lifting base? By 30 iterations, what do you mean? LKO is good, do you think that thing could've flown itself to the Mun and then back again? That's what I was asking The largest payload, capable of taking itself to the Mun, to land and then back again, mining resources/mods are fine

So much fuel D; my stations/bases tend to hold 2-15K fuel, depending on if it's a lander/whole station segmant/whatever per thing, 40K or so is about the highest for an end payload single thing, to hold (the 18K kethane, 20K liq/oxi/monoprop total).

Got any pics of that monster?

I tend to avoid struts too, make the part count bad, look out of place often. Kinda needed them with all the thrust produced though, any less resulted in the craft tearing itself to pieces, it didn't enjoy all those full tanks with however much force, pushing against the empty Kethane tanks at the top. Worked well though.

Edited August 25, 2013 by Joel Dryden

[Joel Dryden]

Haha the question wasn't how do you get more debris, it was asking if anyone else has noticed, that if you crash to make a pile of debris, while throttled up, it all disappears resulting in purgatory for the memory of that test/crash, when you can simply power down, to keep much more stuff lying around, rather pointless but seems very related to the 2.5Km "draw distance" for ejected objects, which isn't really, but seems to be more of an "auto delete"/"auto save" and the powered up object cannot be stored and is lost, even if you end up getting it stationary within 2.5Km debris tends to disappear. This being why.

Ended up raising the gear, but I was more smashing rockets/helicopters into the VAB/SPH to try scatter pieces about, noticed barely any of them were staying behind after I'd managed to make a nice pile (most would auto delete as I went to launch a new ship, not having anything to do with "being on the run way", so don't suggest that next please

Didn't actually hit the unbreakable objects, because I want it to break, lol. That's the point of the graveyard, destruction and fun for all

The main adventure was figuring out how to make all the pieces stay when you're done, try to make your debris field and you'll noticed most pieces (even after you make them crash and land safely) disappear when you go to the tracking station and back, usually leaving you with only manned pieces. Don't know how many times I re-iterated that in this and the above posts but thanks for the ideas on helping to control the crashes, but I've got that down good, just want to preserve the pieces to the maxinum I can, that was the only point I was making really (a somewhat moot point, unless you are trying to make lots of debris on the ground for pretty launch sites).

[Joel Dryden]

Oh, sorry guys, after lurking the forums a bit more, realised the reason I had much higher than a 2.5Km draw distance was the lazor mod I have installed, probably doesn't have anything to do with my cancelling all thrust (Seemed like it might, as it only worked with that) haven't tested that little exploit to be able to leave so much more garbage around (Which ends up looking lovely, wish it was all on fire and smoking, too bad there isn't any implementation of something like that in the stock game or a mod).

Will test in the stock game later.

[Brotoro]

A huge debris field just makes your liftoffs laggy. So I avoid launch site debris.

[Joel Dryden]

I've been keeping most of it to fuel canisters/wings about, doesn't create any performance issues, as I've got the little junk yard look I want in less than 40 pieces, part count doesn't seem to effect me much unless I go much over 350, which I used to easily just with the launch base, but after trying the mission control mod and aiming for maximum profits, so I want to spend as little as possible, part counts never go up too high, so I've been able to keep all the successful drop off's I don't feel like recovering yet.

Also, that killing thrust trick, to be able to keep an object for much longer than normal works with the lazor mod, not stock. sorry about the useless thread D:

[lajoswinkler]

For some reason, most of my debris just detonates after a while, but I usually go to the space center and terminate them myself because of the lag they generate.

[manskal]

Creating debris? Not until I get something better than a measly second-hand dual-core processor .

[KerbMav]

Creating debris? Not until I get something better than a measly second-hand dual-core processor .

Actually I am quite happy with my 3Ghz dual core - as KSP only uses one core ... I would be pretty annoyed with a 1-2GHz x-Core investment?

[Joel Dryden]

I was getting that spontaneous combustion problem, if you kill all thrust as you go to eject what will become debris and have the lazor mod, more debris tends to stay around, but again, that could only eventually cause performance issues.

Although hears to hoping, piles of debris end up smouldering/smoking, which the base fire/smoke emitter becomes a deletable rigid body (Might make "how many parts aboard" not matter as much, while letting your ruins look lovely.), so you can leave it without interacting much, besides for it's effects, until you want to delete/recover.

[technicalfool]

(That's our name for the thing, aren't they stars? Do I call this Kerbol or is this still a taboo subject? Just name the thing twinkle or some **** if people argue between Sun and Kerbol)

Just FYI, the reason solar panels are referred to as solar panels is because Earth's sun was named "Sol" in Latin. That's also why we live in the Solar system, as opposed to some other random stellar system.

Lunar? (And Lunatic?) Well that word would be based on Lune or Luna, the name of a rather similar natural satellite to Mün.

As for graveyards, I ended up with quite the growing collection of debris fields dotted along the equator in 0.19.x, mostly thanks to Novapunch parts being extremely durable and surviving the de-orbit journey a little too well. Right now I don't have any NP parts, due to NP2.02b being a bit buggy in 0.21.x.

[Joel Dryden]

Just FYI, the reason solar panels are referred to as solar panels is because Earth's sun was named "Sol" in Latin. That's also why we live in the Solar system, as opposed to some other random stellar system.

That's what I was asking about in that portion, we've got out name for the star, we call the Sun or Sol, being why we're in a Solar System, but with that said, I was asking if the Kerbal's system, has a different term/name, because I doubt they went through our socio-evolutionary pathways to create Latin and then name the thing Sol, etc. Was wondering if "Kerbol" was the going name, or if it's just a random star system.

But as you pointed out, our photon absorbing panels, have been named Solar panels (both here and Kerbol) and was wondering if that just made it a given, that we're just to call it the Sun/Sol or something along those lines.

Didn't know as much about the origin of Lunar.

Wonder how much the next update will break Nova just as they catch up, patching their mod.

[arq]

Wow, that's incredible, how large was the lifting base? By 30 iterations, what do you mean? LKO is good, do you think that thing could've flown itself to the Mun and then back again? That's what I was asking The largest payload, capable of taking itself to the Mun, to land and then back again, mining resources/mods are fine

So much fuel D; my stations/bases tend to hold 2-15K fuel, depending on if it's a lander/whole station segmant/whatever per thing, 40K or so is about the highest for an end payload single thing, to hold (the 18K kethane, 20K liq/oxi/monoprop total).

Got any pics of that monster?

It was back in 0.20 that I made that massive ship, but I'll try to recall it here: The ship was over 650 parts and 3000t on the pad. It had 43 mainsails on the bottom, onion staged. In orbit it had 67200 units of fuel (21 x32 tanks), plus another 2250 monopropellant. The orbital stage had 6 LV-N's, giving it an acceleration of just under 1 m/s with a full load. With all that fuel it had over 12km/s dV, though it was mostly intended for Kerbin operations (moving it to other planets was much easier if I docked a transfer stage with more thrust). If I ever get around to rebuilding it I'll see about posting a screenshot.

By 'iterations' I mean that I had the core design together but had to go back to the VAB many times to add or relocate struts because of RUD events. Because of the challenge of holding it together without massive partcounts I tend to make tankers smaller now, carrying maybe 35k units of fuel. This lets me keep the partcount significantly lower and keeps the mass below 250t.

Unfortunately, I like single-launch missions so I have used my tankers for refueling maybe once.

[Joel Dryden]

It was back in 0.20 that I made that massive ship, but I'll try to recall it here: The ship was over 650 parts and 3000t on the pad. It had 43 mainsails on the bottom, onion staged. In orbit it had 67200 units of fuel (21 x32 tanks), plus another 2250 monopropellant. The orbital stage had 6 LV-N's, giving it an acceleration of just under 1 m/s with a full load. With all that fuel it had over 12km/s dV, though it was mostly intended for Kerbin operations (moving it to other planets was much easier if I docked a transfer stage with more thrust). If I ever get around to rebuilding it I'll see about posting a screenshot.

By 'iterations' I mean that I had the core design together but had to go back to the VAB many times to add or relocate struts because of RUD events. Because of the challenge of holding it together without massive partcounts I tend to make tankers smaller now, carrying maybe 35k units of fuel. This lets me keep the partcount significantly lower and keeps the mass below 250t.

Unfortunately, I like single-launch missions so I have used my tankers for refueling maybe once.

I enjoy the single launch missions too, being why I thought I had built quite a monster for mining (Just as a "single" out post). But that really takes and mutilates the cake.

3000T? I thought I was going over board getting to 666T.

That part count must've done been immense, not on your hardware, but on what KSP allows to be processed and how it goes about it D:

Hopefully when the Unity transition comes, you might get better performance, making tests easier, so you don't have to go back 30 times.

Incredible effort, 67,2000 units of fuel in Orbit, is more than most of my launch vehicles (for mid-small payloads).

Any idea on how many K$ that ship was for the launch? Playing with the mission controller mod, the way it increases part prices (for some) that would've been millions D: maybe anywho.