The official unofficial 0.22 discussion thread

[SkyHook]

@AlternNocturn

I will disagree with you on several terms. 0.18 Was the last update to add a feature (docking) that modified or changed the way that one played the game. The rest of the updates have been either cosmetic updates or coding updates that changed the coding of the game. Havester's justification for such updates is basically that the game was becoming too "top heavy" and it catered toward endgame players like myself and PDCWolf. 0.22 will be the update to break the long cycle of featureless updates, and I am pumped for it! I cannot wait to do science with my Kerbals! So summarize my first point, entitlement is not the word that I would use to describe him. Frustrated is more appropriate. The core state of gameplay hasn't changed in 9 months, so people might be upset at this fact.

My second point: The game is not even close to complete. Not even close. I could name twenty features that they could/will add to the game (I won't say the "R" word), but I am already talking too much. The game is VERY polished, however. Pretty colors...

[magnemoe]

I am stoked over sub-assemblies. Not having to rebuild that asparagus booster over and over? Hallelujah! Couple that with science bays and .22 is looking epic to me.

I uses the assemblies mod, the downside is that then launching heavy cargoes say 50 ton and more the launcher pretty much has to be build around the cargo. For one you don't want to put something longer than two orange tanks on top of an high rocket.

for lighter cargoes it work with standard 5, 10 and 25 ton to orbit launchers.

For kethane mapping satellites, rovers and other parts its very nice. Let you test out parts and add to the ship.

[Whackjob]

This is exactly the kind of entitled attitude that I hate seeing in game communities. The game is nearing completion. The game isn't even really considered alpha any more, it's more like a beta, or as the devs call it, "sandbox complete". The reason the ratio of polish to new content is biased toward polished is because there isn't much left to add. This isn't going to be like Minecraft with constant updates. Once the game is done, it's done.

I grab this post with my teeth and I shakes it until it dies.

Grr.

[Sandermatt]

I find it strange to have R&D in sandbox. I hope they let you choose between an unfinished career mode (with R&D) and sandbox (everything already researched). Does anybody have information on this?

[thunderstar]

i have a question: how is exactly R&D gonna work? you acquire new parts over time or it modificates and optimize the ones you have ?

[Klingon Admiral]

i have a question: how is exactly R&D gonna work? you acquire new parts over time or it modificates and optimize the ones you have ?

As far as I am aware, you generate science with the science bays and specimen containers, with diminishing results the more experiments you run in one place (like Kerbin surface or Kerbin orbit).

I am not 100% sure if I really like this system.

[Nimaci]

As far as I am aware, you generate science with the science bays and specimen containers, with diminishing results the more experiments you run in one place (like Kerbin surface or Kerbin orbit).

I am not 100% sure if I really like this system.

I was thinking the same.

I'm wondering if kethanesque hexagonal plot scanning would be an appropriate science earner, i.e. you gain a certain amount of science for each hexagon scanned, depending on the composition of the hexagon (once resources are implemented) and/or its parent body, with a bonus for a complete global scan.

[Botch]

I find it strange to have R&D in sandbox. I hope they let you choose between an unfinished career mode (with R&D) and sandbox (everything already researched). Does anybody have information on this?

The tech three will only exist (or be pertinent) in the career mode. You'll have all the parts available as always in the sandbox mode. This is mentioned or alluded too in the video.

I am curious if the science parts will "work" in the sandbox mode.

whether you can build towards something like complete or representative data sets

whether the current science parts are part of the system

[AntonioAJC]

I find it strange to have R&D in sandbox. I hope they let you choose between an unfinished career mode (with R&D) and sandbox (everything already researched). Does anybody have information on this?

Don't know, but I would think that in Sandbox mode, all of the research nodes will already be unlocked, either that, or you would have infinite research points to unlock your desired node. I hope it's the first one.

[Epthelyn]

I don't really like the way the dev cycle is taking place, since we are in an alpha and the devs are destinating more time to polish the game than to release new content. 2 month long updates work almost-perfectly but run out of content barely 3 or 4 hours after you start playing, when it should be the exact opposite.

I'm not hyped at all for 0.22.

You don't seem to realise that, whilst Squad are adding new features in almost every update, they are still working on improving and optimising the core game alongside making it more fun to play and giving us more things to do.

Besides, every single time the game gets a major update a new "Can't wait for 0.xx" thread appears a few hours later. If Squad stopped adding things, half the community would probably pack up and leave in protest.

[Eric S]

Don't know, but I would think that in Sandbox mode, all of the research nodes will already be unlocked, either that, or you would have infinite research points to unlock your desired node. I hope it's the first one.

I'm pretty sure that it's the former, as the devs have stated that mods that aren't updated to hook into the research system will not appear in career mode, but will still appear in sandbox mode.

They've also said that research will be about unlocking existing parts. You'll start a career mode save with very few parts, and then as you spend research points, you'll unlock more parts. So I don't think they're talking about improving existing parts or adding a ton of new parts through research in 0.22

[Wjolcz]

Not sure about that, but I think we will be able yo spend research point on upgrading the parts we have.

[PwnedDuck]

I'm still waiting for minerals. It feels like a lot of the improvements since 0.19 were minor background things, or parts we already have in the two other sizes. Science might help a little but I want a reason to go to space and since the new celestial bodies were added the increase in such reasons has been sporadic at best.

[tstehler1]

Upgrading them how exactly? Would be be changing and improving the stock parts themselves? I'm kinda confused...

[7499275]

If it just upgrades parts for now I figure for engines it will improve thrust or there efficiency, solar panels will gather more energy things like that. That is my guess, although I will still like to see more uses for power

[Wjolcz]

It just struck me: so some people were asking about that unlocking parts and stuff in sandbox. And what I think is that we will have all the parts fully upgraded in sandbox mode.

But don't quote me on that. It's just a thought of mine.

[Guest Brody_Peffley]

No were going to have career mode, Thats what they were talking about not the sand box mode. Oh yeah And I hope they make it rely on the graphics card a little bit. Take that load off of cpu

[BaldWombat]

The new science parts look to add a lot to the game but I am mostly looking forward to the sub assembly loader.

[shibdib]

Do we have an ETA?

I took a break from the game and will probably continue to do so until .22 launches

[DrPoo]

The horrible mod support in .21 gets me anxious about how horrible it will be in .22

[PDCWolf]

I'm really pumped for the science modules and sub assemblies! Not forgetting the R&D building of course, it will be awesome! Too bad I'm going to have to de-orbit my space stations that are doing "research" to make way for the new features :c

You do realize that the devs ARE releasing new content. If you don't count R&D and sub assemblies as new content, then I don't know what's your definition of content. As you remember, or you have never heard off, the developers are focusing on bringing us career mode so we can have challenge added into the game.

You know, you remind me of every single whiny player in every single video game forums on the internet. Instead of whining, you should thank the developers for giving us this really awesome game!

This is exactly the kind of entitled attitude that I hate seeing in game communities. The game is nearing completion. The game isn't even really considered alpha any more, it's more like a beta, or as the devs call it, "sandbox complete". The reason the ratio of polish to new content is biased toward polished is because there isn't much left to add. This isn't going to be like Minecraft with constant updates. Once the game is done, it's done.

Gee, somehow I'm the antichrist now.

I didn't say "it doesn't add new content", I said it adds way too little for a game in alpha (and for an update that takes 2 months), and that I don't like the devs focusing on polishing the game instead of making new content.

The game is nowhere near complete dude, go read the FAQ, the Wiki or even the freaking homepage.

Why should I be thankful to the devs? I already gave them my money, which makes me able to whine all the F I want about the product I bough or invested in. I'm not going to be thankful to them even if they meet my criteria or they fulfill the promises they made, because I already gave them my money and my trust when they only presented an idea that wasn't even a game. Learn to value your money and a bit of capitalism.

[Rage097]

Why should I be thankful to the devs? I already gave them my money, which makes me able to whine all the F I want about the product I bough or invested in. I'm not going to be thankful to them even if they meet my criteria or they fulfill the promises they made, because I already gave them my money and my trust when they only presented an idea that wasn't even a game. Learn to value your money and a bit of capitalism.

Learn to not appear as a jerk. A lot of reason that polish is more important than new content is becuase the devs have a priority list. Currently, Career mode is at the top. So the Devs will add and polish features in order to make that possible. And by "appearing as a jerk" I mean be grateful the game even exists and try to make your tone so that you don't appear as a jerk, regardless of how you really are.

/end of this particular argument that'll end with a mod coming and fixing it.

[regex]

The horrible mod support in .21 gets me anxious about how horrible it will be in .22

What?

.

[PDCWolf]

Learn to not appear as a jerk. A lot of reason that polish is more important than new content is becuase the devs have a priority list. Currently, Career mode is at the top. So the Devs will add and polish features in order to make that possible. And by "appearing as a jerk" I mean be grateful the game even exists and try to make your tone so that you don't appear as a jerk, regardless of how you really are.

/end of this particular argument that'll end with a mod coming and fixing it.

I guess you misunderstood what I meant by "polish". One thing is making sure the feature works, something very different is spending the same time you spend developing content, fixing it. KSP is an alpha. Its focus should be adding all the content needed for the game, not adding "as little as we can get working perfectly without bugs", which doesn't even work, since after every major release there are subsequent minor "emergency" releases.

I don't understand what you mean by appearing as a jerk, I just expressed my opinion and then counter argumented when I got treated as entitled and whiny for not being a fanboy.

[Eric S]

The game is nowhere near complete dude, go read the FAQ, the Wiki or even the freaking homepage.

What new content are you thinking should be coming that isn't part of career mode? Neither the home page nor the FAQ discuss the game features at all. The About page mentions existing features, and except for "And a whole lot more!" only mentions career mode stuff as planned features. The "planned features" page of the wiki is the only one of your three references that discusses any planned features other than career mode, and I've always taken that page with a grain of salt given the "Please note that these features are not a commitment, and the dev team is not under any obligation to implement them all." message at the start.

Even then, there's not that many things on that page that could really be called content. Mining absolutely. Enhanced IVAs, sure. Improved aerodynamics, probably but we're already starting to stretch the idea of content. More planets? definitely, but that's bottlenecked behind the observatory, which is probably bottlenecked behind the research tree that they're currently building.

Are you saying that you're expecting career mode to come faster? That's a bit more reasonable, from the outside at least. I don't know how much of the career mode is based on the infrastructure they're building now, how complex that infrastructure might be, etc.

Learn to value your money and a bit of capitalism.

I already know both of these. I can't name a single thing I could have spent the current price of $23 on that would have even come close to providing the entertainment value that KSP has already given me. If a meteor struck Squad HQ and 0.21 was the last version of KSP we ever saw, I wouldn't feel ripped off, just disappointed that I didn't get even better versions.

As for capitalism, your expectations and desires don't really enter into that. You paid for the game, and when it's done, you'll get it. No delivery date was specified, and the specification of what would be delivered didn't deal much in concrete or measurable qualities of the game to be delivered. Yeah, that's a cold and harsh way to put it, but capitalism can definitely be cold and harsh.

tldr: The things you mention aren't supporting your point of view as well as you think they are.