Poll, Do/Should Kerbal Genders exist?

[sumghai]

My vote is for variety.

-snip-

You've hit the nail right on the head there!

From what I can see, all that is required in-game is an alternative head mesh, its associated textures, female-ish names in the Madlibs name generator plus an additional variable in the savegame file to determine which head model to use.

[Tw1]

The terrain was redone to look more realistic, and the very second you find a real life kerbal, and determine it's gender you could claim "realism" by providing gender to the in game creatures,

Like I said before:

Kerbals are not a real species.

They were created to be characters in a video game.

-snip- Kerbals are based on humans.

Not going to repeat the whole thing, but basically, it's not about realism, it's about completeness.

The hitchhiker can IVA technically wasn't a practical addition to the game. More stuff to load makes it fractionally slower, and you can't even control your spaceship from inside. But it was certainly fun to have.

Female Kerbals will be something similar.

refreshingly AVOIDED gender/sex and the inevitable and irrelevant to the game bs that ends up going along with it. Always.

While I can guess the kinds of things that you might mean, why would stuff like that end up being added to KSP?

Just the girl kerbal. Nothing else needed.

[regex]

My vote is for variety.

Great work!

[Sapphire]

I think you're reaching, many of those things were improved either due to the game engine switch to unity4(?), even so, those are elements that normally get attention in a a game, the new buildings have a functional aspect depicting the training center etc., the new textures use less polygons/texture memory and thus less resources which has a direct effect on teh speed in which the game runs.

The terrain was redone to look more realistic, and the very second you find a real life kerbal, and determine it's gender you could claim "realism" by providing gender to the in game creatures, or if somehow making female kerbals would speed up the fps, etc...but none of those reasons genuinely apply to the gender of the little green creatures you're exploding or hurling in to space.

Why would you play the realism card in a cartoonish space sim game? But if you want to go that route, SQUAD better stop all career mode development and start putting procedural cities everywhere and adding weather and stuff. Update the textures, fix the skybox. (that was sarcasm) As per what you originally said, aesthetics should always take a back seat to gameplay. So why are you now defending SQUAD's decisions to put aesthetics before gameplay?

Upgrading to an updated engine doesn't suddenly make textures better. It doesn't automatically turn a 1024x1024 into 2048x2048. That texture has to be redone, from scratch. Resizing it increases blur, and there's no such this as an "Enhance" tool (Darn you CSI and your lies!!).

Bac9 didn't have to redo all the buildings. Optimization is usually the last step before completion, so coding you do later doesn't invalidate previous optimizations. All that was needed was a small tab, or even a cloned part of the VAB, for the astronaut training center. He could have spent that time making mining parts (though I still don't get why everyone's going crazy for resources when Kethane exists and is awesome). (sarcasm) It's just fluff. So if you don't like fluff, why are you defending it? Personally I'm all for it.

As many people have said, Kerbals are analogous for our human space program, albeit more cartoonish and better funded. They have a nearly identical starting planet, a very similar solar system, and an identical tech level. By all means, go ahead and tell me female astronauts don't exist. And using that logic... you say that since you haven't seen one, it shouldn't exist. I've never seen Kerbals mining, so I guess the resource system should be scrapped. Again, sarcasm. But when you make arguments, you have to make sure you're not contradicting yourself in other situations.

And I'm saying it for the third time...

I don't want female Kerbals because I think it'd be more realistic. I want female Kerbals because it would increase my enjoyment of the game, and because I think that Kerbals are based on a more-cartoony version of the human race, and cutting out half of that race is not what I'd like to see.

You may say that adding female Kerbals is a waste of time and does nothing for gameplay. But roughly half of the (currently polled) community disagrees.

Any word on the changed-up terrain of Eve and Moho, or for chairs and flags being put before core gameplay?

EDIT: Is this coming across as hostile and incoherent? If so I should probably go to bed.

Edited September 18, 2013 by Sapphire

[lajoswinkler]

Now I wish I had voted for the first option instead of the second. I mean, I'd like them to be genderless, but they clearly aren't. Just because someone says they are doesn't mean they look like they are.

[Canopus]

Just let Kerbals be Kerbals and appreciate the fact that they exist in this Spaceflight simulator at all. There are so many video game characters with or without determined gender. Why does it matter with Kerbals?

[Vanamonde]

(Nevermind. Wrong thread.)

Edited September 18, 2013 by Vanamonde

[suzin.felipe]

Just let Kerbals be Kerbals and appreciate the fact that they exist in this Spaceflight simulator at all. There are so many video game characters with or without determined gender. Why does it matter with Kerbals?

Because they are men, and half of population of Earth is comprised of women. Why exclude half of population, player base, consumers, whatever angle you want to look at it.

Did anyone else read the women posts in this tread? They are asking for it and saying that is important for their enjoyment of the game. Why keep pushing that genderless BS when evidence is right in front of you?

[Zeroignite]

Did anyone else read the women posts in this tread? They are asking for it and saying that is important for their enjoyment of the game. Why keep pushing that genderless BS when evidence is right in front of you?

Yes. This.

Hell, 80% of the time people here address me as "he" even though my sig explicitly states otherwise. It's frustrating to be essentially made invisible.

[_Aramchek_]

Why would you play the realism card in a cartoonish space sim game?

Because you or someone mentioned "rocket exhaust shouldn't be in the game either if female kerbals aren't"

But by your own logic then, : Why should female kerbals be part of the game?

So far the reason given most is that "kerbals are an analogy of humans and humans have a male/female binary gender sytem".

If realism is the most often reason cited as to why there should be female kerbals, why is it verboten for me to point out that in real life, there are no such things as Kerbals, while everything else is plausibly close to existence?

But if you want to go that route, SQUAD better stop all career mode development and start putting procedural cities everywhere and adding weather and stuff. Update the textures, fix the skybox. (that was sarcasm) As per what you originally said, aesthetics should always take a back seat to gameplay. So why are you now defending SQUAD's decisions to put aesthetics before gameplay?

This is a straw man, and a badly constructed one at that, also your use of sarcasm contradicts your previous comments that you remain civil in a debate, try to stick to facts please, rather than emotional characterizations, etc.

Upgrading to an updated engine doesn't suddenly make textures better. It doesn't automatically turn a 1024x1024 into 2048x2048. That texture has to be redone, from scratch. Resizing it increases blur, and there's no such this as an "Enhance" tool (Darn you CSI and your lies!!).

what is the relevence of this, often when switching from one engine to another assets will need to be redone.

Bac9 didn't have to redo all the buildings. Optimization is usually the last step before completion, so coding you do later doesn't invalidate previous optimizations. All that was needed was a small tab, or even a cloned part of the VAB, for the astronaut training center. He could have spent that time making mining parts (though I still don't get why everyone's going crazy for resources when Kethane exists and is awesome). (sarcasm) It's just fluff. So if you don't like fluff, why are you defending it? Personally I'm all for it.

As I mentioned they were redone to "clean them up" and get rid of some unnecesary overhead. That it ended up looking better is icing on the cake as far as I'm concerned.

As many people have said, Kerbals are analogous for our human space program,

Please make up your mind, are you for or against realism in the game?

Because you seem to switch it up depending on if it supports your own desires or not.

Either you want kerbals to have gender due to realism, thus my comment that kerbals are not real trumps "kerbals are an analog", or realism isn't important to you.

Which is it?

I've never seen Kerbals mining, so I guess the resource system should be scrapped. Again, sarcasm. But when you make arguments, you have to make sure you're not contradicting yourself in other situations.

This too is a logical fallacy, you create a ridiculous counter argument and use it to disprove your own manufactured version of my statement, this is not a good practice in any debate.

You may say that adding female Kerbals is a waste of time and does nothing for gameplay. But roughly half of the (currently polled) community disagrees.

No, they've said they want them, so far there haven't been any game play elements mentioned in defense of the desire to have female kerbals, the two ideas are not the same.

Is this coming across as hostile and incoherent? If so I should probably go to bed.

Likely you realize that you've been genuinely hostile not just "coming across as", otherwise you likely wouldn't have posted this. It seems that you're just trying to excuse your own behavior, rather than own up to it and tone it down.

I have played games where the player character was not human, or was female, it has never once affected my ability to enjoy a game, it's kind of odd and prejudicial to say that "all genders must be represnted because I am this gender and thus I must see myself represented in game".

Edited September 18, 2013 by _Aramchek_

[allmhuran]

I demand transsexual kerbals, and kerbals that do not identify with any of your regressive gender stereoptypes, as well as LGB kerbals. I also think we need to have a kerbal of every age so as not to be ageist, and a kerbal with every hair colour so as not to be hair-colourist. Additionally, we need a disabled kerbal, an autistic kerbal, a kerbal of every race, colour and creed. And why should they all speak backwards *Spanish*? What about backwards Russian, or upside-down yiddish?

[lajoswinkler]

Yes. This.

Hell, 80% of the time people here address me as "he" even though my sig explicitly states otherwise. It's frustrating to be essentially made invisible.

I feel an obligation to say that despite you being female, I have no intention of stalking you, as someone suggested on my thread about demographics of KSP forum that was closed because it was derailed by juvenile trolls.

You shouldn't get angry because of the invisibility. English language is faulty because it doesn't have convenient words that display gender. In Slavic languages, it's literally impossible to not recognize the speaker's gender.

I demand transsexual kerbals, and kerbals that do not identify with any of your regressive gender stereoptypes, as well as LGB kerbals. I also think we need to have a kerbal of every age so as not to be ageist, and a kerbal with every hair colour so as not to be hair-colourist. Additionally, we need a disabled kerbal, an autistic kerbal, a kerbal of every race, colour and creed. And why should they all speak backwards *Spanish*? What about backwards Russian, or upside-down yiddish?

That's trolling and you know very well it's trolling.

Gender stereotypes? Sexual dimorphism is not a gender stereotype. It's a biological mark of human species. Nobody is talking about gender stereotypes. We're talking about body proportions and ratios.

LGB? Kerbals do not display sexuality. Therefore no need for that.

Ageism? Can you determine the age of Kerbals? Because I can't. I'm looking at them and I can't say their age.

You're really trolling, dude. Stop that.

Edited September 18, 2013 by lajoswinkler

[suzin.felipe]

allmhuran,

Not sure if all those implementations are possible, but you can be happy that so far all kerbals seems to be homosexuals as there is no female in their planet, but if you want lesbians we will need females as well. As for transexuals, how do you propose to do this? I'm curious.

Also green is a good color because if favors no race at all, so you can be happy that they have that covered. Also, disabilities as autism don't have physical characteristics, so you can roleplay at will any kind of mental problem that you feel like it.

About age and hair color I think is a good idea, more customisation is always a plus.

Nationalities might be a problem, considering that backwards speech tend to sound the same in any language.

Any more requests?

[lajoswinkler]

LOL, troll just got burned.

[allmhuran]

It seems you have somehow taken the literal text of my post seriously, but still entirely missed the point.

[suzin.felipe]

No mate, you post a troll and I answer exactly what you asked.

What your point was by the way? That all men kerbals are fine? That variety is bad? That women asking for one inclusive implementation is too much? That because your gender is already represented everyone else should bugger off?

Please, enlighten us.

[Canopus]

Because they are men, and half of population of Earth is comprised of women. Why exclude half of population, player base, consumers, whatever angle you want to look at it.

Did anyone else read the women posts in this tread? They are asking for it and saying that is important for their enjoyment of the game. Why keep pushing that genderless BS when evidence is right in front of you?

No one is excluded. No who doesn't play KSP now will play it because it has female looking characters in it.

I think its sad that you need Female looking Kerbals so bad. I think most people wouldn't even think about the Kerbals genders if some people would not bring up that "BS" of yours all the time.

[allmhuran]

but still entirely missed the point.

No mate

What your point was by the way?

Ladies and gentlemen, Suzin felipe.

[lajoswinkler]

This "blindness" in year 2013. makes me shake my head when I think about the stuff people (mainly first feminist fighters, both male and female) had to go through hundred years ago when the world was ruled by arseholes with monocles and cigarrs who were so blind by the fact females earn less money and children work in coal mines. Because "females have smaller brain" and "children get payed too". The fact females were basically slaves, and kids would get few pennies and a piece of bread was not discussed.

It's the same mindset with lots of "tough gamers" today and it's disgusting.

almhuran, you're a troll. Even I, who didn't think of Kerbals' gender, came to realize there's a problem. You're just mocking without justification.

[Canopus]

lajoswinkler, you blow this stupid and non existant issue WAY out of proportion. i sense that you may have a slight case of white knight syndrome.

Anyway, If Squad was to add Kerbals of female appereance, there would be problems too.

Edited September 18, 2013 by Canopus

[PwnedDuck]

Genders would be fine, No genders would be as fine as it currently is. It's not a big deal, but I wouldn't mind either way.

[Richy teh space man]

It would be nice to add female Kerbals to the game, if only to add variety to who gets sent into space.

[Comrade Jenkens]

but you can be happy that so far all kerbals seems to be homosexuals as there is no female in their planet, but if you want lesbians we will need females as well. As for transexuals, how do you propose to do this? I'm curious.

Well gay, lesbian and trans-kerbals will look the same as regular kerbals. so no need for a different model there.

[_Aramchek_]

Did anyone else read the women posts in this tread? They are asking for it and saying that is important for their enjoyment of the game. Why keep pushing that genderless BS when evidence is right in front of you?

You know, I just saw this.

I have read nearly every post made, while doing so I have not taken the poster's gender, race, nationality, orientation, social class, religion, health, any of that into consideration, nor should anyone else.

Which is basically the main point of why the game doesn't need or benefit from any of those things, it's what actually makes the game a "game for all people".

Despite being modeled after a certain country's real life space program, which I would mainly assume is because it's the one that got the furthest rather than any kind of bias, the game is a celebration of humanities achievements and greatest dreams made available for and to any and everyone.

Of any knowledge level, and it teaches people as they play, encourages creativity and finding novel solutions to complex problems, and allows you to laugh off mistakes with no lasting repercussions*. (*at the moment, subject to change.)

Without muddling it up with silly things.

How many games really offer all of that, and are amazingly fun to play too?

[AntonioAJC]

Wow, first, I read a gender discussion in a thread that may of had been in the Fan section of the forums, and now people are making their own threads about it.

Gentlemen, ladies, it doesn't really matter right now in the game's state, IN WHICH IS IN ALPHA. Developers WILL ADD female Kerbals in some point on the game's development. In the suggestion forum, it's said NOT TO POST any female Kerbal thread because it was suggested already and they got the message. So, please, can we stop talking about this in order to avoid a civil war in the forums?

Edited September 18, 2013 by AntonioAJC