Concerns on the Uranus analog

[EleSigma]

So Squad dev Mike (better known as Mu) mentioned in the devstream Friday about a Uranus analog, basically it will be a gas giant sized planet with a thick atmosphere, but instead of being a gas giant it will have a rocky surface that will be hidden under clouds and the thick atmosphere.

Normally I wouldn't put up a fuss about things but this has me concerned as they will be putting work into designing a planet that will be pointless for players to visit. Why will it be pointless? Well you will have a gas giant sized planet, with a gas giant sized gravity and extremely thick atmosphere, most likely much more so than Eve. Many long time players already know the challenge of getting around and off of Eve. Now imagine Eve infinitely worse though, a trap where nothing you land there will be able to get only a few meters off the ground at best, G's would be so extreme that it would kill Kerbals if you did manage to make a craft that could potentially escape (when G effects are added anyways). Then there would be the gravity issues, your craft will break extremely easily due to the extreme gravity, if a Kerbal fell over would they even be able to stand back up for that matter? Also it's distance would make it that much less favorable for some players.

My point is, if Squad went ahead and put this planet in, why would a player want to visit it? Unless they had modded engine parts and quantum struts it would just be so much more trouble than it would be worth with so little reward. I know there are a few players that like the near-impossible challenges, but this just seems plain impossible, like trying to land on Jool and return with stock parts impossible. I think a better decision would be to make this planet a gas giant and instead give one of its moons an extremely thick atmosphere with the mountainous terrain.

[Captain Sierra]

Perhaps the uranus analog may get oxygen. With an atmosphere the consistency of jello AND oxygen, it'd be a pilot's paradise.

[Baconluver25]

If they add a Uranus analog I'll never get to it the only other planet I've made it to is Duna! XD

[NGTOne]

Why would a player want to visit it? For the challenge, that's why. I built a 600-ton rolling base specifically for a mission to Eve, and that's only because the stock wheels couldn't take the strain of what I was asking them to do (the one I eventually sent weighed more than twice as much as the initial version, which used stock wheels). I would LOVE to see a planet with higher Gs and harsher conditions, to push my engineering skills to the absolute, ultimate limit - that's WHY I play KSP. I relish the challenge of designing a functional vehicle that can operate in an environment like that.

Also, FYI: I have SEEN players "land" on Jool (0/negative altitude) and return to orbit. Stock. NOTHING in this game is impossible.

[Baconluver25]

More importantly... what color will it be?

[Sapphire]

More importantly... what color will it be?

Probably skin-colored.

...

I'm sorry, I'll let myself out.

[EleSigma]

Why would a player want to visit it? For the challenge, that's why. I built a 600-ton rolling base specifically for a mission to Eve, and that's only because the stock wheels couldn't take the strain of what I was asking them to do (the one I eventually sent weighed more than twice as much as the initial version, which used stock wheels). I would LOVE to see a planet with higher Gs and harsher conditions, to push my engineering skills to the absolute, ultimate limit - that's WHY I play KSP. I relish the challenge of designing a functional vehicle that can operate in an environment like that.

Also, FYI: I have SEEN players "land" on Jool (0/negative altitude) and return to orbit. Stock. NOTHING in this game is impossible.

Yes but I would say that a very large majority of players probably are never going to be able to do this at all. It will be pretty to look at, but even landing there will be a pipe dream for most players. I'm hoping this gets the attention of Mu and he can clear things up with it. Maybe they will make the planet not as large as a gas giant but rather more of a super earth type planet? Something that's only a few times larger than Eve but not as large as Jool? That would allow them to tone down the gravity somewhat and make it slightly, though still nearly impossible, to manage.

Edited September 29, 2013 by EleSigma

[Specialist290]

I think at some point the devs were mentioning Eeloo eventually becoming a moon of a second gas giant. It's possible that this Uranus analog might be that planet.

...Which could be interesting, depending on how much we read into the comparison. Uranus's most well-known feature is its high axial tilt relative to its orbital plane, and all of its moons follow orbits close to its equatorial plane. A planetary system whose moons are highly inclined compared to Kerbol's ecliptic plane would present quite a unique challenge.

[EleSigma]

I think at some point the devs were mentioning Eeloo eventually becoming a moon of a second gas giant. It's possible that this Uranus analog might be that planet.

...Which could be interesting, depending on how much we read into the comparison. Uranus's most well-known feature is its high axial tilt relative to its orbital plane, and all of its moons follow orbits close to its equatorial plane. A planetary system whose moons are highly inclined compared to Kerbol's ecliptic plane would present quite a unique challenge.

No, the planet Eeloo is to become a moon of is the Saturn analog that was shown during Kerbalkon 2012, it's to be larger than Jool and have rings. The Uranus analog will come after that I imagine.

[Specialist290]

Still, the fact that it's a gas giant implies it'll have a large moon or two that we can visit. It won't be a totally pointless addition.

[EleSigma]

Still, the fact that it's a gas giant implies it'll have a large moon or two that we can visit. It won't be a totally pointless addition.

The Uranus analog according to Mu won't be a gas giant though, it will have a mountainous surface under the thick atmosphere (and clouds). My argument against this is above. It will be the size of a gas giant though, and have the atmosphere and gravity of one.

[Kerbart]

Yes but I would say that a very large majority of players probably are never going to be able to do this at all. It will be pretty to look at, but even landing there will be a pipe dream for most players.(...)

Which is the very definition of a challenge. There's plenty to explore for all players, and it's fine with me (mind you I haven't made manned flight past Minmus yet) it there's something out there that can be reached by some but not all. If everything were easy, it wouldn't be fun!

[Guest]

So don't bring Kerbals there, send probes if you're so worried about it. Once science gets added there'll be a reason to go everywhere.

(mind you I haven't made manned flight past Minmus yet)

ಠ_ಠ

Edited September 29, 2013 by regex

[Brotoro]

The surface gravity of Uranus is LESS than that of Earth...about 90% as much.

[Commander Zoom]

Normally I wouldn't put up a fuss about things but this has me concerned as they will be putting work into designing a planet that I won't be able to visit.

Fixed that for you.

[stupid_chris]

The surface gravity of Uranus is LESS than that of Earth...about 90% as much.

Precisely. Jool has a surface gravity of 0,80G. Gas giants are heavy and have a huge SOI, but they're also not very dense. Saturn has an overall average density of about 0,8kg/L IIRC, which is similar to oil. Their "surface" is so far away from the center of the planet that gravity this far out is already weakened. If gas giants were as dense as rocky planets, you would have insane surface gravity, but really surface gravity is rather low in that case. So a Uranus "analogue" with a somewhat surface would have an insane surface pressure, but low surface gravity. I'd like to see that to be honest. I'm concerned at how the rendering would affect the gameplay though, it will most likely be very large, and that means a large surface to render.

[Brotoro]

The atmospheric pressure at the surface need not be insane. It just depends on how much atmosphere the devs decide to give it.

[stupid_chris]

The atmospheric pressure at the surface need not be insane. It just depends on how much atmosphere the devs decide to give it.

That's true, but it's probably going to hang around Jool or Eve at least, I doubt it would be less than Eve.

[ArmchairGravy]

The devs have said they are in a tricky spot as far as additional content goes. They have to keep the game accessible to newbies and provide new challenges for vets. This would be an example of the latter.

[TMS]

So don't bring Kerbals there, send probes if you're so worried about it. Once science gets added there'll be a reason to go everywhere.

Exactly what I was thinking.

I quite like the fact that there are regions of the KSP universe that are better suited to different types of exploration. Keeps things fresh.

[SpaceSphereOfDeath]

What happens if there is a giant 65km tall mountain, DIDN'T THINK OF THAT!

I hope it's icey, like eeloo but tinged reddish red.

[FITorion]

1. your taking an amusing thing he made for testing stuff a bit too seriously. And Uranus analog wouldn't be accurate... I know he said that but if it's got land... then it ain't a Uranus analog. It could just be that it sort of looks like it from space and would be in approximately the same orbital distance.

2. I never send stuff expecting to get it back off any of the current planets anyway. I'm always setting down a permanent probe, rover, Colony or what ever anyway.

3. I'm completely fine with them adding planets that are very different from our own.

I take it as something he was just working on in a bit of spare time and wouldn't be something added to the game soon if ever without more input from the rest of the devs on the subject. Don't panic. Seriously... people flying off the handle at the slightest mention of something that might happen in the future is why they stopped doing the streams in the first place. Calm down.

[Richy teh space man]

This Uranus analog sounds awesome, I can't wait to start exploring it.

[Epthelyn]

So, back when you began interplanetary exploration and thought about Eve and Duna you were put off entirely by the fact that the Kerbals would probably never return? No. You went there anyway and accepted that Evebase was a thing now. Even after many months of playing KSP I've never returned anything from Eve's surface, but I go there with manned flights because rovers work properly and it's very purple . The same will no doubt happen with the new gas giant, no matter how thick the atmosphere is.

[bsalis]

I think it's wrong to assume that just because a planet is there, and has a surface, that you are meant to be able to get to the surface and return to orbit. I'm not even sure if Eve was intended as a return-to-orbit planet... not for regular players anyhow.

If anything having a "gas" giant with a surface makes it even a more desirable destination. It will have moons to explore like Jool, and a surface you can send a one-way probe to.... or some Kerbals if you are ok with that.

This Uranus analog sounds awesome, I can't wait to start exploring it.

I'm itching to any new planet beyond Jool! It's been so long... I have all the craft and experience I need to explore beyond Jool using Laythe as a hub of operations and Tylo for so-good-it-feels-cheaty slingshots.