[WIP] Nert's Dev Thread - Current: such nuke, wow

[Donziboy2]

you can't surface attach them to the lv-n, but if you connect them to a part behind it, they will cool the part, which will then cool the lv-n.

awesome!!!!

[Streetwind]

Last tests. I appreciate any checking anyone can do, but things seem to work pretty well... Few things I'm not super happy with but it's good enough.

NFPropulsion 0.5.0 RC2

NFElectrical 0.5.0 RC1

HeatControl 0.1.0 RC1

HeatControl's dll is included in NFElectrical, but to keep things lean the universal radiators, insulators and heat pipes are moved to the separate HeatControl.

Gave it a quick shakedown cruise... can't guarantee I didn't miss anything, but nothing problematic jumped out at me either. I do like the way the radiators throttle themselves close to the minimum temperature, that's really nicely done!

Just one thing: the standard radiators from HeatControl can probably do with another renaming... (And don't forget that the name of the larger one repeats in its description field)

[Nertea]

Alrighty, sounds good. I also needed to include the 3.75m insulator's normal map and description .

[funk]

I was testing NFP and encountered an issue with the "Colossus". It might be related to stock build rule of electric charge.

Usecase: The engine is throttled up and electric charge depletes, because of insufficient power generation. When EC is exhausted the thrust scales back to the level of the actual power generation.

Issue: The "Colossus" uses all possible power and the ship remains uncontrollable under acceleration.

As a workaround it's possible to use battery -> command -> generator+/battery -> engine build order.

Perhaps it's possible to implement an emergency shutdown?

[Streetwind]

I was testing NFP and encountered an issue with the "Colossus". It might be related to stock build rule of electric charge.

Usecase: The engine is throttled up and electric charge depletes, because of insufficient power generation. When EC is exhausted the thrust scales back to the level of the actual power generation.

Issue: The "Colossus" uses all possible power and the ship remains uncontrollable under acceleration.

As a workaround it's possible to use battery -> command -> generator+/battery -> engine build order.

Perhaps it's possible to implement an emergency shutdown?

That's stock behavior, you can get the same thing from a Dawn (former PB-ION) engine. It's just less likely to run into that case because it consumes very little power. Also, manned craft should (as usual) remain controllable even when Ec is depleted.

A bigger issue is that you actually get way more thrust out of Ec-deprived engines than you should. If you have a power system capable of doing 100 Ec/s and an engine capable of consuming 200 Ec/s, then throttling that engine to 100% and letting it stutter will actually generate more thrust than throttling it to 50% where the power production can keep up. However, I assume that is also a stock issue, and there's little that Nertea can do about it...

[funk]

That's stock behavior, you can get the same thing from a Dawn (former PB-ION) engine. It's just less likely to run into that case because it consumes very little power. Also, manned craft should (as usual) remain controllable even when Ec is depleted.

As I expected. Thx. But my craft doesn't stay controllable anylonger. At least I can't throttle back. Nvm... I'm still in hope, Squad will fix things like that.

[Crzyrndm]

However, I assume that is also a stock issue, and there's little that Nertea can do about it...

What happens if the engines use throttle response (aka spooling)? It could be relatively quick to the level of unnoticeable, but if the spool up / spool down ratio is small enough it could reduce that effect. May also help in the case of out of power probes (although that depends on what the spooling does when it runs low on resources).

E: Instant deceleration and <0.1 for acceleration "should" (if KSP behaves as it described, which isn't guaranteed) solve both issues, although it's a little less nice for the over thrusting. As soon as it runs out of resources, it cuts out, but when it cuts back in it won't be using all the EC for a few frames (accel time dependent). Spam 'x' and the probe should shut down so long as it isn't running right on the edge. The engine also can't overthrust, avg. thrust would be <= sustained thrust (exponential saw tooth thrust profile, should be about equal if EC storage isn't really tight).

Edited June 8, 2015 by Crzyrndm

[cipherpunks]

I really think that Modular Octo-Girder system needs a few parts added, namely:

- slim stack separator and stack decoupler (!)

- heat insulator

- ability to switch Multipurpose Octo-Girder segment to contain living space with cozy lights (they're must)

- ability to switch Multipurpose Octo-Girder segment to contain large capacitor bank

- ability to switch Multipurpose Octo-Girder segment to contain large battery/small RTG combo

- ability to switch Multipurpose Octo-Girder segment to contain 2.5m reactor would be good too; for smaller segment, ability to hold nuclear products would be nice.

- 1.25m-ended version of Octo-Girder Adapter, and maybe 3.75m version too (preferably switchable)

- ability to switch Octo-Hub's content in the same way that Multipurpose Octo-Girder segments are switched, so one part can be pressurized, empty, contain LH2, argon etc

- ability to switch Modular Octo-Girder Micro content in the same way too

- slim, light adapter to easily connect three Multipurpose Octo-Girder segments side-by-side. Can't quite scale SE-3 Stack Trilinear Adapter to do that - turns out that the nodes are in between its sizes.

- above mentioned task can be facilitated with radial adapter, only turned 90 degrees and two-sided, or slanted-one-sided AND two-sided variants (maybe switchable, if that allows attach nodes to be enabled/disabled too). Then one will place, say, Octo-Girder Adapter to one end of central Multipurpose Octo-Girder segment, and add 2 such radial adapters, then place 2 surrounding Multipurpose Octo-Girder segments on those.

- - - Updated - - -

E: Instant deceleration and <0.1 for acceleration [...snip...] (exponential saw tooth thrust profile

I second that. Sounds like good idea.

Oh, and one more thing: Octo-Girder Octo-Hub is not symmetrical - this monstrocity

has sideways torque because of that. In fact assymetry can be seen by eye while in VAB. Will try to add symmetry group to it and will see if it'll help.

Edited June 8, 2015 by cipherpunks

[Nertea]

That's a lot of stuff. Would you also like a pony? .

[Streetwind]

Can't you already do some of the stuff you asked for by filling the hollow octo-girder truss with other parts? I haven't tried, but I'd wager it works. Would be more practical in some cases too. A huge, monolithic capacitor bank of the size of the 2.5m truss for example would have storage amounts and discharge rates that would make it utterly impractical for use in gameplay... except for Star Destroyer sized vessels with seven MPDTs, perhaps.

[cipherpunks]

Can't you already do some of the stuff you asked for by filling the hollow octo-girder truss with other parts?

Well, ofc I can hack some inner nodes to it with MM, but then - part count will bite me... And that doesn't cancel out the need for insulator/decoupler/separator/tricoupler/180 degrees surface attach (like S-MED Radial Stack Adapter, but Octo-Girder profile, not round), 1.25m and 3.75m adapters, and the fact that Modular Octo-Girder Micro is only hollow. Besides, it'd be only logical that creator of EnrichedUranium/DepletedUranium would give us the means to store those delicious resources in his other wonderful creation - Modular Octo-Girder system. Right? :-D

[Psycho_zs]

Girder to 3.75 and girder to 1.25 adapters would be nice indeed!

What is that pony's heat production rate?

[billkerbinsky]

Girder to 3.75 and girder to 1.25 adapters would be nice indeed!

What is that pony's heat production rate?

Around 746 watts?

[cipherpunks]

Yesterday I had one craft built like so:

(exploding-girder-docking-port) [girder-hubs] girder-tankage (girder-to-2.5m) |heat-insulator| something-hot-2.5m

and aside that, connected to [girder-hubs], 8x more-girder-tankage-to-which-heatpipes-connect <- heatpipes-from-something-hot

so tankage acts as heat-buffer, and the heat comes to the rest of the craft via girder hubs array.

My problem with that arrangement was that girder-docking-port attached to girder-hubs was exploding due to overheat, despite big heat buffer bought some time - cause there's no insulator in octo-girder crossection available. Also, I had to use those girder docking ports, cause no stack separator in girder cross-section is available. So is life...

Yeah, I worked around that by using 3 more parts - girder-to-2.5m |heat-insulator| 2.5m-to-girder - but... Hope You got the situation.

Edited June 12, 2015 by cipherpunks
spelling

[cipherpunks]

BTW, long time ago seeing that Mk3-9 has RCS ports on its skin, I was frustrated when I discovered that those are only painting, and are not functional like, say, on B9 or BaconLabs pods. Too bad adding RCS requires model source/Blender/"unwrapping" (and I don't know how to do that).

[Starbuckminsterfullerton]

Christmas list

A lot of these things can already be done:

-There are already some crew tube sections complete with lights

-Do you really need that many capacitors?

-I know not everyone does, but I use RTG decay so having a built in one that can't be replaced seems unhelpful, and there is already a battery/monoprop truss.

-The existing adapter can just be placed on an existing cylindrical one.

-Decouplers have fewer applications unless you're building lifter rockets out of girders, and one-way docking ports can usually cover anything else.

-I do get the radial thing, but is it possible to radially attach the tanks, rotate them parallel, and then offset-tool them to the proper spacing?

That said, I love these girders, and you can't have too many variants. I for one would rather see a 1.25m edition. Nothing fancy, just the structural one. I should probably just rescale that myself though.

Edit: as far as RCS ports go, I feel like I remember Nertea saying he left the RCS transforms in place in case he ever decided to add them, in which case it might just take a .cfg edit.

Edited June 17, 2015 by Starbuckminsterfullerton

[Nertea]

And here we go!

Starting off with the revised cockpit again. Note 1: this form factor is now huge (can barely carry 3.75m containers)! Textures are just blocking out, but I'm already pretty pleased.

Top left and top middle: mesh and fuel switching. Most fuel-containing parts (and even cargo bays) can now swap their fuels out. There's 4 combinations - LF, LF/MP, LF/OX, LF/OX/MP. There's texture and mesh variations for each... Those two images show a LF/OX/MP fuselage and a pure LF one.

Top right: yes, we can eat Mk3 parts for lunch .

Bottom: shoulder pieces for the cockpit. These also mesh well with the new version of the 1x2.5m + 2x1.25m adapter. Three at the moment. Intake, basic aerodynamic and RCS. They can also be surface-attached to make a shuttle-shoulder-like engine mount.

[I.O.M.]

Holy Guacamole that's nice! The textures especially. Great improvement over the previous MK4.

[Svm420]

Yes I can't contain my excitement for this! Such a .... form factor.

[MarcAlain]

Oh my, this is beautiful and very exciting dude!

[Captain Sierra]

And here we go!

http://nertea.the3rdage.net/ksp/mk4reduxW1.jpg

Starting off with the revised cockpit again. Note 1: this form factor is now huge (can barely carry 3.75m containers)! Textures are just blocking out, but I'm already pretty pleased.

Top left and top middle: mesh and fuel switching. Most fuel-containing parts (and even cargo bays) can now swap their fuels out. There's 4 combinations - LF, LF/MP, LF/OX, LF/OX/MP. There's texture and mesh variations for each... Those two images show a LF/OX/MP fuselage and a pure LF one.

Top right: yes, we can eat Mk3 parts for lunch .

Bottom: shoulder pieces for the cockpit. These also mesh well with the new version of the 1x2.5m + 2x1.25m adapter. Three at the moment. Intake, basic aerodynamic and RCS. They can also be surface-attached to make a shuttle-shoulder-like engine mount.

OOOH OOOH OOOH SEXINESS!!!!!!!!!

caps

EDIT: If that thing can legitimately carry my tanker rovers . . . I will quit the forums, buy a triple-monitor setup and a second GPU to run them, and just go crazy on various planets with mining.

Edited June 21, 2015 by Captain Sierra

[LGRMEP]

They're so pretty... I can't wait!

[Raptor9]

And here we go!...

(Drools on his keyboard)

[AngelLestat]

is looking good nertea.. good work..

I dint understand some things.. You are making this version a bit more procedural to save parts menu and memory?

What about the intakes, rsc, aero cone or none? it will be possible to config those extentions as we do with the fuels?

It will be compatible with FAR?

[Captain Sierra]

is looking good nertea.. good work..

I dint understand some things.. You are making this version a bit more procedural to save parts menu and memory?

What about the intakes, rsc, aero cone or none? it will be possible to config those extentions as we do with the fuels?

It will be compatible with FAR?

I assume FAR compatibility will work as it did before. As Nertea does not use FAR he will not be providing any official support, but will happily bundle the patch for it if people make it.