Space Stations not worth anything in .22

[Zorro_347]

Its look lite there will be money system. Maybe stations wiil not generate science but will provide dosh? Space tourism is good money maker.

[lazarus1024]

Hydroponics for long duration space flight would be neat, if or when a life support system is added to the game.

O2 tanks and air scrubbers for smaller ships and hydroponics for bigger ships (using power of course) for long duration flights would be a really cool touch.

[AmpsterMan]

Maybe it's just me, but I am going to restatrt and wait until the pount that I can build a Space Station to start doing Goo and Science lab experiments

[LostElement]

Maybe squad could add a science module for when you land on a moon or planet. Like a very small R&D center. Basically when you have a base set up and a science module, you can dock(or transmit) your data to the science module and get full science.

[paleorob]

Still waiting for the Science Lab mod to come out because it is honestly an awesome idea. Full (or maybe 80-90%) science recovery of science stored anywhere on the vessel/base when the module (big and power hungry) is on the same vessel and activated. I can see it clearly looking like a mutant cross between the Hitchhiker and Orange Tank. If I had any skill with 3D design or coding I would already be on this...

[toric5]

for those of you saying that science will not have any worth when the tech tree comes out, i would like to suggest that maybe discovering something new will get you more funds? something along those lines. kinda like a research grant.

[BrotherWolf42]

I think science should be one of the main purposes for space stations. Perhaps Zzz's Science Lab will be modified for the 0.22 system. I'd like to see long term labs in space.

[Torham234]

I may be wrong but I think the mechanics that are already ingame differ from these. I think that the first time you record something, it gives you 100% science when transmitted or recovered. The more you repeat the experiment, the more the value of the data degrades, and I have seen values as low as 20%. having a science lab as you describe would first of all invalidate the mechanics already in place and secondly not make much sense. There is only so many times you can repeat the same experiment and learn something new all the time. I think diminishing returns are perfectly fine, it pushes you to do new things.

That said I get repeatedly good return from my automatic lab on Minmus. Its just the SC -9001 + 2 mystery goo containers, with a probe and solar recharged power supply. Even though it has been sitting on the same spot transmitting data for quite a while, I can still get around 30+ science points from the full experiment + transmit home procedure.

[Wjolcz]

Here's an idea. Rather than some simple science-over-time bit, why not have a microgravity laboratory? Put the lab module on a space station, and it doesn't work unless it's in 0G. Then, you have to fly up samples from KSP, dock, run the tests in the lab, then return them. And why not add the capability to have different modules to bolt on to the microgravity lab? Bio lab, polymer lab, et cetera.

This would also give people a reason to learn docking in a hurry.

I like this idea a lot.

Also getting science from docking itself would be cool. And space stations would have even more purpose that way.

Science points would be multiplied by the number of docking ports you have on your station. Unfortunetaly I see a way to exploit that, but I couldn't think of anything better...

Yet another edit: OR! space stations could be small testing rigs of new parts. Basically: You take an engine from R&D(you have only one engine of that kind) and test it on a station. Then you get more engines like that one.

And another one: Space stations would be determined by the number of ports docked together.

Edited October 19, 2013 by Veeltch

[lammatt]

money systems?

i dont think space station is a way to make money; it's a way to burn money instead.

communication satellites are what makes money.

TV transmission

[Depth]

money systems?

i dont think space station is a way to make money; it's a way to burn money instead.

communication satellites are what makes money.

TV transmission

Space tourism.

"Now, YOU can spend an entire week in space for only 38 million HK$"

[Spatzimaus]

Maybe some science parts that work passively and gain science points the whole time they're in orbit.

While this'd be nice (and realistic), it won't happen at present. Right now, only the ship you control is modeled actively; everything else is treated as a simple debris object until you get within 2km of it, and even once you get close it only uses the physics model. This issue is well-known to anyone who ever used the ISA MapSat or Kethane scanners, where you'd have to sit and watch as your probe mapped the surface (at no more than 50x) instead of swapping to some other vehicle and letting it do its work. I'm sure Squad could code in a simple bypass for this, but I don't see it happening.

Still, that leaves two main possibilities for space stations:

1> As suggested, a really large science bay. Lots of points in the initial launch, and maybe a few more as it orbits. Really, you wouldn't need a station for this; any large rocket could do the same.

2> Space stations enable science missions when they act as a refueling stop. If that extra fuel stop enables you to travel to Jool, you'll get a huge influx of science points that you wouldn't otherwise have.

But honestly, the main use for stations isn't here yet. Once the resource system is implemented, stations will probably be necessary as fuel refineries (depending on how small the refinery modules are). This makes point #2 even stronger; the stations might not generate science themselves, but they'll make possible all sorts of other missions. Without a fuel depot on Pol, it's not likely you'll be landing on Tylo any time soon...

[skyace65]

I agree, bases and space stations need some purpose for scientific gain. Maybe some science parts that work passively and gain science points the whole time they're in orbit.

harvestR said he didn't want to do something like that because science would just turn into a time warp grind. i think on thing that should be done with space stations is reward you with more science the larger it becomes

[skyace65]

money systems?

i dont think space station is a way to make money; it's a way to burn money instead.

communication satellites are what makes money.

TV transmission

agreed. i hope thats one of the ways to earn money in career mode is launching a satellite into space(with solar panels)

[Robbii6]

Or maybe the experiments taking more time than "instant"? Like, monitor the Goo for 24 hours?

Thats awesome!! Amazing idea

[Xellith]

Also keep in mind that any unlimited science-over-time solution turns into an instant exploit due to time warp

The "science tank" idea which fills up with "science" that you need to offload and return to Kerbin is neat and takes care of that problem quite elegantly.

Or just have the "science over time" based on the real life clock. This would stop any "exploitation" and also allow the timer to count even when you are not focused on your station by just playing with variables in a table or something.

[N_Molson]

I agree that duration should be taken into account as a positive factor for data value. Orbiting a Kerbal for 30 days should allow to collect more data than during a suborbital flight of 10 minutes. That's the purpose of space labs like Skylab, Mir or the ISS.

[Frostiken]

Space experiments should really require heavy, power-hungry capsules that need to be stocked with Kerbals. If you want something more portable, bring scientific instruments.

Probes should be able to bring MicroLabs that allow rudimentary experiments of limited scope.

[alacrity]

in the grand scheme the spacestations where only ever

1) fun to build

2) useful for interplanetary work

That is still true. That said... I agree long term research and science would be groovey. manned on space stations and unmanned on probes. (Not sure if the PETA folks would like to see a virtual 0g hamster wheel for testing. Or how to begin modeling and impanting something like that).

Right now i am just trying to get to batteries and solar cells so I can do some long term work in space.

alacrity

[Koen]

I'll add my 2 cents.

When mining resources thus producing fuel becomes possible, it would be very convenient to have some way to transfer fuel and other resources from mines to space stations. To make it somewhat authentic, there could be a 2 part resource transfer module - one part (in shape of some rocket launching station) would have to be placed on the ground, and the other part (some special docking station) would have to be placed on space station. The process of launching cargo-rockets and docking to the station would be autonomous, it would not have to be visible.

Another idea to increase the importance of space stations: currently there's too little profit from bringing manned or unmanned ships back to Kerbin. You can just land and transmit data over and over again until you drain all research points. If bringing your ship back would become very important, having a refueling station on low orbit would become beneficial as it makes such missions much easier.

Also, in addition to research points, some unlocks should require completing some specific missions, which would involve some space station related activities.

Edited October 19, 2013 by Koen

[shoveycat]

If you use the Interstellar Mod, it adds a Science Capsule (or something like that) That gradually trickles science in, exactly what your asking for

[SkipSpikowski]

I think you should have a station module that acts as a laboratory and you have to send experiments to it so they can be studied and reported back or retrieved. It would give the station something to do, aside from traditional purposes, force you to actually launch stuff to it, and make it fun to have them in orbit around another planet (ex sample returns being examined in orbit).

[drewscriver]

Instead of getting hung up on science-over-time, which we know can be abused by time-warping, have manned & powered science modules on a station act as a science multiplier. So you do your science missions as normal, but they would automatically yield extra science (5-10% more?).

This takes time out of the equation, but still gives a benefit from the station.

[SkipSpikowski]

Can you set science experiments to use power? If so, that would make for some interesting options.

[Spatzimaus]

have manned & powered science modules on a station act as a science multiplier.

Unfortunately, this wouldn't work well. The problem is that by the time you place a station around a planet, you've already DONE all of the science goals there with the stock labs. What's the point of getting 10% extra when you're only getting 0.1 science for a task you've done repeatedly before? Especially since a station can't de-orbit itself for recovery, meaning you're only getting the 20-50% payoff on all science you do there, which'd easily overwhelm that percentage bonus for any science points other than EVAs.

A slow trickle of science points over time would avoid this issue. The only question would be in how it could be implemented without abuse. An obvious solution has been suggested here: the research lab only gives points when the station in question is the active vessel, AND time acceleration doesn't increase the rate at which the points accumulate.

But there are other, better solutions. Consider the following options:

1> An improved antenna, that increases the efficiency of transmitted science. A ship's antenna might only be able to transmit 20% of the points from a lab, but this dish might bump that to 40%. If the antenna needed is large, it'd be impractical to put on a ship but perfect for a station.

Better yet, a RECEIVING antenna. That is, your ships could choose to transmit their data to a nearby station instead of beaming it all the way back to Kerbin, for a much higher efficiency. So maybe a rover on Ike has a laboratory with only a 20% efficiency when beaming from Ike to Kerbin, but that increases to 40% if there's a station somewhere in Duna's SOI, and 60% if there's a station around Ike itself.

2> Simply add a larger science lab, which is what I'm guessing they're already planning. It's not just that a big enough lab would be impractical for ships, but also that since its experiments wouldn't overlap with those of the earlier vessels you wouldn't have any issues with stations not having anything to research. The downside of this is that you could still make a large ship carrying the module; my largest stations in the last version were ~300 tons, but my largest ships were 500 tons and I was building an even larger one for a while.

3> Add "data banks". Right now, you can only do one EVA at a time, one crew report at a time, and so on. This obviously hurts something like a space station more than it would a simple capsule that returns to Kerbin to unload without the large transmission penalty. But if space stations had a part that allowed you to easily store multiple EVA reports, multiple crew reports, etc., AND transfer them to any docked vessel? That'd be a huge improvement. You'd now have a reason to base your exploratory vessels out of a station instead of flying new ones from Kerbin each time.

or my favorite,

4> Refineries (once the resources are added in a future update) could produce a small number of science points whenever they refined a raw material into a finished product. This'd obviously require the player to be controlling it at the time, but it'd also effectively cap the number of points given by way of the amount of raw materials. Time acceleration wouldn't be abuseable; it wouldn't matter that you'd get points faster at 50x acceleration, because you'd stop gaining points 50 times faster as well. The limiting factor would still be the time needed to pull the resources up from the planet below, so you wouldn't be able to stay at high accelerations for most of the time anyway. Land-based refineries (mobile or not) might be an option, but depending on the size of the parts and the amount of power needed to refine, stations might be the only practical place to do large-scale refining. (Especially if they spread the resource deposits out enough, since every fuel type requires more than one resource.)