New Landing Legs

[RocketPilot573]

If I wanted to play with mod parts, I'd play with mod parts.

I know, I don't like mods either. But if you say the legs are messed up, then wont editing them just be a temporary fix, not a mod?

[Brotoro]

I know, I don't like mods either. But if you say the legs are messed up, then wont editing them just be a temporary fix, not a mod?

Not if Squad decides this is the proper way landing legs should work. Then we just have to engineer around them.

I hope this will not be the case.

[Oznerol256]

I know, I don't like mods either. But if you say the legs are messed up, then wont editing them just be a temporary fix, not a mod?

Im seriously considering to do that. However, i don't know how the legs are going to be fixed in the future. I would like to wait for the fix instead of building more stuff with the old landing legs and then having to redesign them all.

[DMagic]

If I wanted to play with mod parts, I'd play with mod parts.

Then don't update. In my opinion keeping parts around just to maintain backwards compatibility is a terrible idea. Maybe the legs should be strengthened, but if so it should be because it improves their function, not because it rescues our old saves.

[Oznerol256]

Then don't update. In my opinion keeping parts around just to maintain backwards compatibility is a terrible idea. Maybe the legs should be strengthened, but if so it should be because it improves their function, not because it rescues our old saves.

Currently the legs are completely useless. If you want to land right now, you will need to use winglets, struts or an engine nozzle as landing gear. That is not how landing legs should be behave right?

[Hugo Ball]

The landing legs definitely compress too far. I really hope this gets fixed.

...I do look forward to them being fixed, though. The new mid-sized landing legs are great when they work; they actually give enough ground clearance to be usable. The old kind were stubby and my rockets were often sitting on the bell.

[Brotoro]

Then don't update. In my opinion keeping parts around just to maintain backwards compatibility is a terrible idea. Maybe the legs should be strengthened, but if so it should be because it improves their function, not because it rescues our old saves.

We aren't talking about the need to rescue old saves here. This is a matter of the updated landing legs not being able to do the job heavy-duty landing legs SHOULD do. Of course, our ideas about what heavy-duty landing legs should be able to do come from our experience with using them in past designs. Maybe Squad is trying to tell us that we've been doing things that are clearly unphysical and we need to wake up and smell the goo, and learn to use properly-acting landing gear. If that's the case, then that's what I'll do. I've spent a lot of time today reengineering designs to work around the deficiencies of the new legs. But in my opinion, these legs are too weak.

[stupid_chris]

OP, mind sharing your craft file?

[JebidiahsBigSister]

stupis_chris: in the post above yours , Brotoro recreates the issue using only 4 parts which I replicated and verified as well (using only 3 parts because I skipped the battery). I'm not sure what good having the O.P. upload a craft file would do. The Devs can replicate this in about a minute's time with just 3 parts.

[kiwi1960]

If I wanted to play with mod parts, I'd play with mod parts.

Sort of like..... a leg fetish?

[MalfunctionM1Ke]

I am also suffering from limb legs. My Lander is quite heavy though but the same design worked fine in 0.21. The 4x LT-2 legs didnt even tend to break or shiver as they were standing on the ground. But now the ship is leaning (with 8x LT-2 Legs) and when I disable SAS, the pistons of the legs are collapsing on one side. Even when I start one of the Radial mounted engine to tilt the ship skywards again, it will fall back in the same direction. Also when I tilt it in the opposite direction it will tilt back again.

I dont think that the LT-1 is too weak but the LT-2 definetly works weird and in a way it is not meant to be.

The shock absorbing effect is pretty sweet but how should I land a craft on Eve if i cant keep it pointing Skywards while standing on 8 LT-2's on Kerbin?

I think the dev's need to take another look at the landing legs and I am sure it will work fine after they did.

Just as they fixed the SAS in 0.21 I am sure they will fix this too

[bsalis]

After some more experience with the new legs I think I can say that they are not functioning properly. Nothing seems to sit correctly for no clear reason. Feet consistently clip through the surface as well.

How did this get past testing?

[MalfunctionM1Ke]

After some more experience with the new legs I think I can say that they are not functioning properly. Nothing seems to sit correctly for no clear reason. Feet consistently clip through the surface as well.

How did this get past testing?

I confirm the clipping issue as well.

[JebidiahsBigSister]

I confirm the clipping issue as well.

The clipping issue resolves itself once your ship topples over on the new landing legs.

[TheWanderer]

I'm not having any problem with them, do see a lot of people over loading them though. How much weight do you think a piston leg should take?

[Catullus]

I'm not having any problem with them, do see a lot of people over loading them though. How much weight do you think a piston leg should take?

I think a full grey fuel tank and a 3 kerbal pod should be within the limits, and at the moment four LT-2s can't hold that up.

[stupid_chris]

stupis_chris: in the post above yours , Brotoro recreates the issue using only 4 parts which I replicated and verified as well (using only 3 parts because I skipped the battery). I'm not sure what good having the O.P. upload a craft file would do. The Devs can replicate this in about a minute's time with just 3 parts.

Yes, and I've replicated this craft without the same effects. Thing is, if we are going to fix it somehow, we need a reliable way to make that appear. I've encountered this while attempting to do a base, but I haven'T seen this like that on a pad situation, hence my demand of the craft file to see where it's going wrong.

[TheWanderer]

I think a full grey fuel tank and a 3 kerbal pod should be within the limits, and at the moment four LT-2s can't hold that up.

depending on the tank you mean, isnt that in the region of 20+ tons? seems a lot for a little leg thing?

but having actually tried it, with 4 Lt-2s it works fine to start then the pistons start to give way where they are overloaded. They dont break however, just compress down. Which to be honest is totally what I would expect.

[MalfunctionM1Ke]

I think a full grey fuel tank and a 3 kerbal pod should be within the limits, and at the moment four LT-2s can't hold that up.

Um... if that will be the maximum for the LT-2's I am never using landing legs again and switch over to using I-Beams....

That cant be what the Dev's had in mind.

[MalfunctionM1Ke]

Yes, and I've replicated this craft without the same effects. Thing is, if we are going to fix it somehow, we need a reliable way to make that appear. I've encountered this while attempting to do a base, but I haven'T seen this like that on a pad situation, hence my demand of the craft file to see where it's going wrong.

Chris,

try to drop it from 8000m with parachutes on the gras around the launchpad.

Maybe it needs some airtime before it starts bugging out

Edited October 19, 2013 by MalfunctionM1Ke

[AmpsterMan]

I haven't unlocked the heavy legs yet, but maybe these "weak" legs are WAD? Maybe the SQUAD thinks wgat we have been building is too big and unbalanced. Also, the only tests I have seen performed so far have been on Kerbin. You should try them out on Mun and see if they work better.

[stupid_chris]

Well, some more testing just made it occur randomly. Also, having the SAS on when putting the gear out definitely isn't helping.

EDIT:

I haven't unlocked the heavy legs yet, but maybe these "weak" legs are WAD? Maybe the SQUAD thinks wgat we have been building is too big and unbalanced. Also, the only tests I have seen performed so far have been on Kerbin. You should try them out on Mun and see if they work better.

it definitely also works better on the Mun, but lanings on Eve and Tylo might be problematic.

[Brotoro]

I haven't unlocked the heavy legs yet, but maybe these "weak" legs are WAD? Maybe the SQUAD thinks wgat we have been building is too big and unbalanced. Also, the only tests I have seen performed so far have been on Kerbin. You should try them out on Mun and see if they work better.

Here is an example on Laythe:

[JebidiahsBigSister]

Yes, and I've replicated this craft without the same effects.

stupid_chris: That is very strange isn't it? Chris, perhaps you could tell me what things you would be looking for in a craft file that consists of three parts in order to determine where it's going wrong as you put it. I've duplicated the behavior and I see at least four other posts here and in another thread with the same behavior.

What specifically should we be looking for in the craft file in order to determine why a 3 part craft unbalances and collapses one of the landing legs? I would be very curious to look in the craft file on my end to look for what you are attempting to find.

[Oznerol256]

OP, mind sharing your craft file?

As you already have noticed, the problem is very easy to reproduce. My craft with is kind of complex with the base modules and the weak engines and stuff. No need for such a complex craft to demonstrate the problem.

Despite that, if you really want to mess with my craft, here is the link: Mediafire Download