.22 SAS is now all WIbbely Wobbly (but not timey wimey)

[JebidiahsBigSister]

Is anyone else a bit miffed about the way SAS works now? I really liked the way SAS worked after the .21 patch but now I find that it behaves erratically in .22. My biggest gripe is during launches where the rocket is generally stable unless I add a small bit of correction at which point it will no longer "lock" onto an attitude but continues to wibble requiring constant correction from me to keep it at the correct attitude. I find this happens almost always near the vertical attitude (during launch)more so than any other.

Edited October 19, 2013 by shadowsutekh

[RocketPilot573]

Indeed... Not exactly game-breaking (like .21.0), but defiantly annoying.

[Stealth2668]

OMG he's from the future? Did they add multi core support?

[Odo]

damnit> Iwas really hoping itd be timey wimey.

[Guest]

I'm very happy with it in 0.22; it actually holds a heading now and I don't have to use MechJeb to make a transfer. It was pretty useless for that in 0.21. It also launches the same in 0.22 as it did in 0.21.

[FITorion]

meh.

It wasn't bad in .20. It wasn't bad during .21. It isn't bad now. It is getting better with each but really it was perfectly workable in all those instances.

Have you perchance not realized you can tap F to momentarily disable and re-enable SAS to lock into the heading?

[spikeyhat09]

i was reading the part description of the (previously known) ASAS part, and it said something about a more sophisticated flight computer... perhaps there is merit to using the ASAS part, maybe the capsules and probes are equipped with a rudimentary computer, and adding the ASAS computer makes it more reliable?

[Dispatcher]

Depends on the craft. In simple craft, SAS works quite well for me. But with large, complex craft, its balky and a ship can go out of control in space. In such cases, adding inline stabilizer(s) can help; they provide additional torque.

Edit: I should point out that another "free" source of additional torque is a vectoring/ gimbaled engine. If its not out of line with your design objectives, using that can really make a difference in how the SAS function works.

Edited October 19, 2013 by Dispatcher
Added comment on engines.

[Sundancer]

Depends on the craft. In simple craft, SAS works quite well for me. But with large, complex craft, its balky and a ship can go out of control in space. In such cases, adding inline stabilizer(s) can help; they provide additional torque.

With regards to that, is there any difference between using the SAS and Inline Stabilizer? Looking at the stats in-game they seem to be very similar. The SAS being heavier and requiring more electricity to run, for no extra torque.

I've tried both and, personally, haven't noticed a difference. But then, I'd need a lot more time with the game to notice.

Overall though I think it's alright though.

[RayneCloud]

It's working just fine. It's worked just fine, and works even better now.

Edited October 19, 2013 by Damion Rayne

[JebidiahsBigSister]

With regard to the people who claim that it works the same as it did in .21 :

- I recall pretty much the same claims back in .21 - just before they patch fixed it

- it can't possibly "work the same" because the release notes say that they've changed it

- fwiw I, and several other posters are definitely noticing a change here. My heavier launches definitely wibble about but only after I use SAS to make a minor correction (pressing F does not stop the wibbling btw) . I notice this MUCH more on heavier launches and I also notice that the effect diminishes if I add more (moar) reaction wheels. But for the same number of reaction wheel strength there is definitely a difference.

I suppose I could always just add more SAS than I used to do but he same (heavy) rockets are definitely behaving less stable on launches if I start using SAS

[Dispatcher]

With regards to that, is there any difference between using the SAS and Inline Stabilizer? Looking at the stats in-game they seem to be very similar. The SAS being heavier and requiring more electricity to run, for no extra torque.

I've tried both and, personally, haven't noticed a difference. But then, I'd need a lot more time with the game to notice.

Overall though I think it's alright though.

I don't think there is any difference in behavior, but using the old inline SAS unit is redundant now since the function is in all command units. Besides, the Inline Stabilizer is less massive as you pointed out.

[wooaa]

meh.

It wasn't bad in .20. It wasn't bad during .21. It isn't bad now. It is getting better with each but really it was perfectly workable in all those instances.

Have you perchance not realized you can tap F to momentarily disable and re-enable SAS to lock into the heading?

True, But in .20 that was not necessary and there was less wobble.

[Guest]

It's working just fine. It's worked just fine, and works even better now.

Why do they keep changing it? Welcome back, Kotter.

Edited October 19, 2013 by Otis

[Specialist290]

It's working just fine. It's worked just fine, and works even better now.

On an unrelated note, welcome back Damion!

Back to our regularly scheduled programming: I do find it slightly annoying that 0.22's SAS auto-adjustments aren't quite as aggressive as 0.21's, but I don't think it's something I won't be able to compensate for with time and practice.

[Guest]

I do find it slightly annoying that 0.22's SAS auto-adjustments aren't quite as aggressive as 0.21's, but I don't think it's something I won't be able to compensate for with time and practice.

What? 0.21's SAS didn't even bother auto-adjusting, it just trimmed out the movement.

[Specialist290]

That's exactly what I'm referring to. It seems like it takes a few extra seconds to settle on the heading I've locked in and wobbles over a larger arc of the navball doing so.

[Guest]

That's exactly what I'm referring to. It seems like it takes a few extra seconds to settle on the heading I've locked in and wobbles over a larger arc of the navball doing so.

Ah, well, I'd definitely prefer if it was stiffer like the 0.20 SAS, but I can live with it actually auto-adjusting in the first place.

[Ekku Zakku]

Ha, love the Doctor Who reference XD I don't notice much difference in .22 myself, aside from when launching the SAS doesn't get within ~2 degrees of where I set it to lock if the craft is kinda top-heavy and wants to tip over. Gets kinda annoying with tier-0 parts, since with no gimballing, it struggles more and more over time to keep the rocket straight (while if I take manual control, I can actually move it myself to where I want it to point). Just needs a little extra +1 to force somewhere in the code lol. I haven't tried huge rockets yet though, haven't finished the tech tree.

Edited October 19, 2013 by Ekku Zakku

[JebidiahsBigSister]

aside from when launching the SAS doesn't get within ~2 degrees of where I set it to lock if the craft is kinda top-heavy and wants to tip over. Gets kinda annoying with tier-0 parts,

Yes-that's exactly what I am seeing. It's annoying

[Crown]

I think now it's closer to the SAS in version 0.19.x but without the tendency to shake the ship apart. Now it's easier to 'lock' a heading into the SAS and leave it for himself to correct it.

[ComradeGoat]

Is anyone else a bit miffed about the way SAS works now? I really liked the way SAS worked after the 2.1 patch but now I find that it behaves erratically in 2.2. My biggest gripe is during launches where the rocket is generally stable unless I add a small bit of correction at which point it will no longer "lock" onto an attitude but continues to wibble requiring constant correction from me to keep it at the correct attitude. I find this happens almost always near the vertical attitude (during launch)more so than any other.

Seems to affect larger vessels. In 0.21 you would apply a bit of course correction, let go, it would more or less hold it. Now what I'm seeing is that I apply a bit of course correction, let go, and then it oscillates back *past* where I started. Utterly perverse!

The only way I've found to reliably counter it is to get the new heading, then apply opposite controls myself until the navball is stable, then press f to toggle SAS and lock in the new heading. Even then it still wanders a bit.

This is basically doing SAS' job for it, manually, and it's a bit fiddly.

Also noticing more monoprop being expended on docking because of this oscillation behaviour.

[ComradeGoat]

meh.

It wasn't bad in .20. It wasn't bad during .21. It isn't bad now. It is getting better with each but really it was perfectly workable in all those instances.

Have you perchance not realized you can tap F to momentarily disable and re-enable SAS to lock into the heading?

Have to disagree with this - 0.21.0 was definitely broken, and we got a .1 release quickly to fix it. Some of us are seeing it work less well in 0.22.0 than it did in 0.21.1, in ways which are clearly detailed in this thread. It hunts, and wanders around a heading , even with the use of the F key to reset it.

[boomerdog2000]

The one problem with the new SAS I'm having is it sometimes goes into its mode where it is taking your input to get a new heading, while I'm docking. I'm in translation docking mode but instead of keeping the heading the SAS reads the RCS thrust and moves my heading around.

[Kerbal01]

Crazy time travelers...