[Airships in 1.12.3] HooliganLabs Mods

[JewelShisen]

@IM_AM_SVEN That would be wonderful but I would need to work on my animation skills. Plus that would absolutely need a texture.

[Artfact]

Alright, so I overcame the backflip problems. Now my airship starts turning CCW as soon as my prop engines warm up; something to do with the direction they turn?

Also: I'm using the realistic scaling option (Set to 1) from the config files. These are fully working?:) The ships certainly seems more sluggish and more weighty!

LOVE that Nasa concept. Going to put solar panels on the top of my zeps as well.:)

Edited May 28, 2016 by Artfact

[JewelShisen]

1 hour ago, Artfact said:

Alright, so I overcame the backflip problems. Now my airship starts turning CCW as soon as my prop engines warm up; something to do with the direction they turn?

Also: I'm using the realistic scaling option (Set to 1) from the config files. These are fully working?:) The ships certainly seems more sluggish and more weighty!

LOVE that Nasa concept. Going to put solar panels on the top of my zeps as well.:)

I would suggest double checking your thrust vector in the SPH/VAB. I may be off center or you might have an engine pushing the wrong way. To my knowledge no prop engine mod has started doing torque from the engines.

[Artfact]

@JewelShisen No, I didn't think so either. Would be awesome of course.:P

I'll try again later today and post a screenshot of the craft; maybe that'll pinpoint the problem better if I don't figure it out.

[Deizelpunk]

On 5/26/2016 at 2:25 PM, JewelShisen said:

So I wanted to ask you all what you want to see coming down the line for this mod? Do you want bigger parts? Smaller parts? More odd parts?

I am going to go on and work on a set of 0.625m parts. Perhaps even a small KIS drone.

Id like to see a stockalike re texture sometime- I hate using mods with textures that just don't fit.

[JewelShisen]

4 minutes ago, Deizelpunk said:

Id like to see a stockalike re texture sometime- I hate using mods with textures that just don't fit.

I want to have a stock texture pack but I am awful at it.

[Artfact]

I second the need for more stockalike textures. I might try my hand at some but can't promise anything.

Did some more testing on the problematic craft. A big helping was the moving of the engines. They used to be on the lower wings. Placing them both on par with the COL as well as the COM, slightly tipping the upper wings perfected the balance between the 3 dynamics and let me lift of the ground without too much hassle and no rotation.

When I however try to make a turn the craft won't be able to get out of that turn.
Prop or jet engines make no difference; pusher or pullers are the same and a single central engine instead of a couple on the sides only makes the craft lighter and slower.
Increasing the rudder size made the craft more responsive to turning, but could not help it get out of one.

Any thoughts?

Edited May 28, 2016 by Artfact

[JewelShisen]

1 hour ago, Artfact said:

I second the need for more stockalike textures. I might try my hand at some but can't promise anything.

Did some more testing on the problematic craft. A big helping was the moving of the engines. They used to be on the lower wings. Placing them both on par with the COL as well as the COM, slightly tipping the upper wings perfected the balance between the 3 dynamics and let me lift of the ground without too much hassle and no rotation.

When I however try to make a turn the craft won't be able to get out of that turn.
Prop or jet engines make no difference; pusher or pullers are the same and a single central engine instead of a couple on the sides only makes the craft lighter and slower.
Increasing the rudder size made the craft more responsive to turning, but could not help it get out of one.

Any thoughts?

That is crazy weird... I honestly have no idea what is causing that though I doubt it is HL.

[Doghead13]

1 hour ago, Artfact said:

When I however try to make a turn the craft won't be able to get out of that turn.

Prop or jet engines make no difference; pusher or pullers are the same and a single central engine instead of a couple on the sides only makes the craft lighter and slower.
Increasing the rudder size made the craft more responsive to turning, but could not help it get out of one.

What have you got in the way of reaction wheels? I've never got a ship to turn with a rudder, and in fact don't bother with rudders on most of my airships.

[Artfact]

@Doghead13 No Sas at all, except for the pilot assist which does nothing for the turning. Is this indeed the only sure way of turning? It is a relatively light vehicle.

I think the engines or engine placement can be ruled out. So it might be the Firespitter floats; anyone else ever used them in a balloony craft?

[Doghead13]

13 hours ago, Artfact said:

@Doghead13 No Sas at all, except for the pilot assist which does nothing for the turning. Is this indeed the only sure way of turning? It is a relatively light vehicle.

I think the engines or engine placement can be ruled out. So it might be the Firespitter floats; anyone else ever used them in a balloony craft?

Low speed ruins rudder efficiency, and airship speeds are pretty low. Suspect you'd need a disproportionately huge rudder to do anything useful, even with light gondolas.

I've never flown an airship WITHOUT SAS. My 'Krakenbait' had something like five of the little probe-sized reaction wheels, and The Beast has three ASAS units. The result is very controllable at any speed it's capable of - it's even semi-controllable at high physics warp.

[JewelShisen]

21 hours ago, Doghead13 said:

Low speed ruins rudder efficiency, and airship speeds are pretty low. Suspect you'd need a disproportionately huge rudder to do anything useful, even with light gondolas.

I've never flown an airship WITHOUT SAS. My 'Krakenbait' had something like five of the little probe-sized reaction wheels, and The Beast has three ASAS units. The result is very controllable at any speed it's capable of - it's even semi-controllable at high physics warp.

That is why I made the current control part for the 15m parts to have reaction wheels that have a 45 pitch and 30 yaw power. In truth most airships turned by adjusting engine output and using rudders.

[SpannerMonkey(smce)]

20 hours ago, JewelShisen said:

That is why I made the current control part for the 15m parts to have reaction wheels that have a 45 pitch and 30 yaw power. In truth most airships turned by adjusting engine output and using rudders.

I second this, having now made two circumnavigations of Kerbin (thanks to airpark) , I heartily recommend huge rudder control surfaces, masses of torque and if you can manage it mount the engines individually so you can have a toggle able reverse on each engine.  

Edited May 31, 2016 by SpannerMonkey(smce)

[Artfact]

4 hours ago, SpannerMonkey(smce) said:

I second this, having now made two circumnavigations of Kerbin (thanks to airpark) , I heartily recommend huge rudder control surfaces, masses of torque and if you can manage it mount the engines individually so you can have a toggle able reverse on each engine.  

Oh, I like that idea.:) I understand a buttload of reaction wheels will do the trick, but I'd like to keep it low tech.

[JewelShisen]

10 hours ago, Artfact said:

Oh, I like that idea.:) I understand a buttload of reaction wheels will do the trick, but I'd like to keep it low tech.

In that case I would suggest, as Spanner did, that you mount the engines separately so that you can toggle the thrust reverse individually.

[Drew Kerman]

I like this look a lot but I can't complete it? What parts am I supposed to be using to cap the nose and tail?

[JewelShisen]

11 minutes ago, Gaiiden said:

I like this look a lot but I can't complete it? What parts am I supposed to be using to cap the nose and tail?

Those look like Spanner's parts so I do not know.

[IM_AM_SVEN]

Thought I would share this with you guys. Has taken some work, but is capable of entering Eve atom, hovering at 25km, and then returning back to a 90km orbit using the return vehicle on the underside.

[Red- the Engineer]

I can't believe I missed this, because this is one of my all time favorite mods. I know I'm forty-two pages late, but best of luck to you all.

[JewelShisen]

42 minutes ago, Red- the Engineer said:

I can't believe I missed this, because this is one of my all time favorite mods. I know I'm forty-two pages late, but best of luck to you all.

Well I am glad you enjoy it and I would love to see some of your airship designs!

[SpannerMonkey(smce)]

On 01/06/2016 at 6:30 PM, Gaiiden said:

I like this look a lot but I can't complete it? What parts am I supposed to be using to cap the nose and tail?

Hiya you need the LedZep Rigid Airship TailCone and the LedZep Rigid Airship Nose Cone which should be both under the structural tab, pretty much next to where you selected the other parts. They are in the structural tab as like the other parts they have no aero properties whatsoever.

Just firing up my game to get a shot of their location, please hold, your inquiry is important to us...  Hope this helps,

Please note though, that the parts are still under development and some functions/positions have changed since the last parts push. The mid hull which i believe in your version is still in the pods section, since the construction of new pods this item has had it's crew capacity removed and will in future appear alongside the other parts under the structural tab. There is also a new fuel tank element formed from a full size hull section, capacity  tweakable,   this allows for less drag than having external surface attach tanks

 

 

[Drew Kerman]

okay I just checked, deleted and re-installed the latest release and checked again and those two end nose/tail parts are not there in my sandbox game. Can you guys please double-check they are in the release?

Good to know they do exist tho!

Actually I'm missing more than that, I only have 3 parts in my structural tab

Edited June 4, 2016 by Gaiiden

[SpannerMonkey(smce)]

3 hours ago, Gaiiden said:

okay I just checked, deleted and re-installed the latest release and checked again and those two end nose/tail parts are not there in my sandbox game. Can you guys please double-check they are in the release?

Good to know they do exist tho!

Actually I'm missing more than that, I only have 3 parts in my structural tab

Hi I've just checked the download and there are 1 or two path errors, due to the texture sharing that the Zepkit uses to reduce wastage some things have not translated well between my dev install the git repo and subsequent  mod DL  to you lovely lot.     I must take a  a big bite of the blame here as I could've checked before now. 

As mentioned earlier the Zepkit is in a constant state of flux here and so instead of using the  downloaded mod version,  I have a dev version of the Zep Kit that should have been scrubbed a bit more thoroughly before pushing for  release.  I will happily supply fixed cfg's just need to check a couple of things,  Are the files in the correct location The parts MUST be at

HLAirships/Parts/Aero/ZepKit/ThePart 

Or it will not work. If it is right and all the parts are actually at that location are you getting any log errors relating to them? the cfg error is on the tail cone the path is instead of HLAirshps/et/et   it reads SM_Aviation/et/etc.. Change that and it should appear.   There appears to be no error on the nosecone so something else must be occurring, so if you could check or pm me a log it'd be great.

Who knew that collaborations could take more attention than standalone stuff

Cheers

[Drew Kerman]

yea here are the errors:

[LOG 15:47:46.330] PartLoader: Compiling Part 'HLAirships/Parts/Aero/ZepKit/ZepNoseCone/ZepNoseCone'
[ERR 15:47:46.334] PartCompiler: Cannot clone model 'HLAirships/Parts/ZepKit/Zepnosecone' as model does not exist

[ERR 15:47:46.334] PartCompiler: Model was not compiled correctly

[ERR 15:47:46.334] PartCompiler: Cannot compile model

[ERR 15:47:46.335] PartCompiler: Cannot compile part

[LOG 15:47:46.335] PartLoader: Compiling Part 'HLAirships/Parts/Aero/ZepKit/ZepTailCone/ZepTailCone'
[ERR 15:47:46.337] PartCompiler: Cannot clone model 'SM_Aviation/Parts/Aero/ZepKit/ZepTailcone' as model does not exist

[ERR 15:47:46.337] PartCompiler: Model was not compiled correctly

[ERR 15:47:46.337] PartCompiler: Cannot compile model

[ERR 15:47:46.337] PartCompiler: Cannot compile part

So just some paths that need fixing for the next release. I've modified them myself in the meantime.

Is that new fuel tank so new it's not even in the latest release?

[JewelShisen]

19 minutes ago, Gaiiden said:

yea here are the errors:

[LOG 15:47:46.330] PartLoader: Compiling Part 'HLAirships/Parts/Aero/ZepKit/ZepNoseCone/ZepNoseCone'
[ERR 15:47:46.334] PartCompiler: Cannot clone model 'HLAirships/Parts/ZepKit/Zepnosecone' as model does not exist

[ERR 15:47:46.334] PartCompiler: Model was not compiled correctly

[ERR 15:47:46.334] PartCompiler: Cannot compile model

[ERR 15:47:46.335] PartCompiler: Cannot compile part

[LOG 15:47:46.335] PartLoader: Compiling Part 'HLAirships/Parts/Aero/ZepKit/ZepTailCone/ZepTailCone'
[ERR 15:47:46.337] PartCompiler: Cannot clone model 'SM_Aviation/Parts/Aero/ZepKit/ZepTailcone' as model does not exist

[ERR 15:47:46.337] PartCompiler: Model was not compiled correctly

[ERR 15:47:46.337] PartCompiler: Cannot compile model

[ERR 15:47:46.337] PartCompiler: Cannot compile part

So just some paths that need fixing for the next release. I've modified them myself in the meantime.

Is that new fuel tank so new it's not even in the latest release?

What new fuel tank?