[1.12.*] Deadly Reentry v7.9.0 The Barbie Edition, Aug 5th, 2021

[davidjjdj]

My problem, when I have a heat shield attached to my vessel, my vessel speeds up in the atmosphere! I am using FAR with this as well, and I think it's a glitch somewhere between them, but the second I drop the shield, I slow down and I'm hopefully lucky enough to slow down and not die from G-force damage to the crew. I need to be on a very specific trajectory and manage the speed, otherwise when I drop the shield it collides with my goo containers and blows the whole ship up. Some input on this would be nice if anybody else is having the problem.

[DivisionByZero]

What do the difficulty settings change?

[ss8913]

couple things I've noticed:

1. I'm using hard mode (with FAR); it seems far easier to re-enter now than it did on 0.25 ... a lot. Much less heating.

2. Parachute defaults have changed from 500m to 2300m and a higher min density, which .. I'm not sure if this is good or bad, but it's different. Haven't unlocked the drogue chutes yet so I don't know if they've changed.

[rottielover]

Has anyone purposefully burned up a ship to see what happens? I tried and I got that old "can't click any buttons" bug after. Then after I removed the mod, and restarted my savegame, I still couldn't click any buttons or buildings once the save loaded!

Use caution if you try to duplicate this.

[Starwaster]

Is anyone else having parachute woes with the new release?  I'm using FAR and my parachutes aren't semi-deploying until almost 10 km, at which point my speed is well above the limit for breaking the parachute.

The highest altitude for chute predeployment is something like 7.8km. By the time you reach that altitude you should have slowed to a safe speed for deployment unless you're coming in VERY very steep. Try a more shallow reentry so that you have enough time to slow down.

That said, I have not tested DRE with the newest version of FAR. DRE was updated and released for KSP 0.90 before the new version of FAR was available for testing so it's (vaguely) possible that there's an issue there as well. I'll download and drop in FAR when I get a chance to do testing. But I really do think your problem is that you're coming in to steep.

My problem, when I have a heat shield attached to my vessel, my vessel speeds up in the atmosphere! I am using FAR with this as well, and I think it's a glitch somewhere between them, but the second I drop the shield, I slow down and I'm hopefully lucky enough to slow down and not die from G-force damage to the crew. I need to be on a very specific trajectory and manage the speed, otherwise when I drop the shield it collides with my goo containers and blows the whole ship up. Some input on this would be nice if anybody else is having the problem.

It is possible to attach things (like shields) to the bottom node of a capsule in a way that confuses FAR. Something about connecting the bottom node of the shield to the bottom of the capsule? Which causes less drag?

What do the difficulty settings change?

Open up the debug menu and then click each difficulty button. You will see the settings change as you do.

couple things I've noticed:

1. I'm using hard mode (with FAR); it seems far easier to re-enter now than it did on 0.25 ... a lot. Much less heating.

2. Parachute defaults have changed from 500m to 2300m and a higher min density, which .. I'm not sure if this is good or bad, but it's different. Haven't unlocked the drogue chutes yet so I don't know if they've changed.

1. As mentioned earlier, the current HARD settings might not be hard enough for stock Kerbin. It was the result of me switching back and forth between RSS and stock Kerbin and trying to find good Hard settings and what I ended up with was probably better suited for RSS. Worked just fine on Kerbin 10x. What you can try doing is changing the Multiplier (should be Heat Multiplier but just says Multiplier) to 2 or higher (2-4) OR change the Temperature Exponent to 1, Multiplier to 20 and Shockwave Exponent to 1.12. (sound familiar?). And work your way from there. Those are settings I'm currently trying for stock Kerbin/Hard.
   
2. Parachute defaults changes are to ensure safe deployments. The predeployment is designed to not deploy until you've reached an altitude where you should have slowed enough for deployment. (as mentioned above, steep reentries may not allow you to decelerate enough by the time you hit that altitude)
   

Has anyone purposefully burned up a ship to see what happens? I tried and I got that old "can't click any buttons" bug after. Then after I removed the mod, and restarted my savegame, I still couldn't click any buttons or buildings once the save loaded!

Use caution if you try to duplicate this.

If you remove the mod and still have trouble then I'm skeptical that it was DRE that was responsible. That said: Logs logs LOGS! I can't do anything about a problem like that without logs.

Except shrug my shoulders and go see if any Ioncross feedback has started filtering in.

[Taki117]

AT what point does the Ablative heat shield actually ablate? I've performed a Mercury-Redstone 3 recreation with FASA and the heatshield on the Mercury pod failed to ablate at all, despite being at 500+C. Not sure if this is a bug or not, but I can rerun the mission and get logs. This was on Linux Ubuntu 14.04 LTS with 64-bit KSP.

[Starwaster]

AT what point does the Ablative heat shield actually ablate? I've performed a Mercury-Redstone 3 recreation with FASA and the heatshield on the Mercury pod failed to ablate at all, despite being at 500+C. Not sure if this is a bug or not, but I can rerun the mission and get logs. This was on Linux Ubuntu 14.04 LTS with 64-bit KSP.

Depends on how that shield is configured. All of the ones in DRE itself start at 650 degrees and max at 3000.

However, the ablation loss does not use the part's temperature. Instead it calculates what temperature to use based on the shockwave temperature (and temperature exponent). The resulting ablation rate is then modified by atmospheric density adjusted by density exponent.

Ideally, the ablation rate will coincide appropriately with the part's actual temperature, but realistically that's not going to happen.

I've been experimenting with an alternate system where the actual part temperature is used. That will eliminate disconnects between the calculated temperature and the actual part temperature. I'm liking the result but it will probably mean having to change all of the shield configurations and I didn't have time to work out new settings let alone implement them before 0.90 hit. And it would affect everyone else's shield configs (RO, various shield packs, etc)

So... maybe some day. Maybe after the 0.90 furor dies down and everyone's not scrambling to update mods.

[davidjjdj]

It is possible to attach things (like shields) to the bottom node of a capsule in a way that confuses FAR. Something about connecting the bottom node of the shield to the bottom of the capsule? Which causes less drag?

Makes sense, will test some new designs when I get a chance, thanks for the quick response!

[Musuko42]

Is it possible to turn off the warnings about parachute deployment not being safe?

[John FX]

I have often wondered why the heatshields need flipping before they are fitted, it seems to cause issues with FAR too. Why not swap the top and bottom nodes?

If you are making changes that are fairly heavy anyway you could do it then and call the update game breaking?

[taniwha]

John FX: they don't need flipping. The problem is that the shields are so thin that clipping wouldn't take effect (and now clipping is disabled...) and it's very easy to accidentally connect the shield to the pod via the wrong node and not notice (I had this same problem with THSS's decoupler).

[cantab]

Yeah, I've had this problem with a few parts. I think there needs to be a way to tell the game "Only attach the top node" or "Only attach the bottom node". Maybe something for Editor Extensions?

[Kvakosavrus]

1. As mentioned earlier, the current HARD settings might not be hard enough for stock Kerbin. It was the result of me switching back and forth between RSS and stock Kerbin and trying to find good Hard settings and what I ended up with was probably better suited for RSS. Worked just fine on Kerbin 10x. What you can try doing is changing the Multiplier (should be Heat Multiplier but just says Multiplier) to 2 or higher (2-4) OR change the Temperature Exponent to 1, Multiplier to 20 and Shockwave Exponent to 1.12. (sound familiar?). And work your way from there. Those are settings I'm currently trying for stock Kerbin/Hard.

This doesn't work either. I did second option - temperature became higher (1100 insead 800 at peak) but not high enough - I landed from orbit and nothing burned

[John FX]

John FX: they don't need flipping. The problem is that the shields are so thin that clipping wouldn't take effect (and now clipping is disabled...) and it's very easy to accidentally connect the shield to the pod via the wrong node and not notice (I had this same problem with THSS's decoupler).

Ah, I see. I`ve noticed myself that it is easy to attach with the wrong node but the pod looks `wrong` if you do and I just look out for that happening.

So if I understand correctly, the pod says `ignore me for air density, I have a shield` and the shield says `ignore me too, I`m inside a pod`?

Not sure how that could get fixed by editing the part without removing some fairly important functioning of the heatshield (being able to use it in a stack for instance).

It might be something for the user to be aware of during construction if that is the issue?

A way of forcing attachment by a particular node would be handy.

A workaround would be to attach a fuel tank to the node you don`t want to connect, connect the heatshield (using the only node available) then remove the tank.

Maybe have them as a subassembly for ease of use, then you only need to do it right once.

[theersink]

This doesn't work either. I did second option - temperature became higher (1100 insead 800 at peak) but not high enough - I landed from orbit and nothing burned

I'm using FAR and with those settings you used if I am not extremely careful about the angle I come in at I either burn through the shield and blow up or my kerbals die of high gees and I never slow enough for chute deployment. Perhaps another mod os interfering? Try those settings with just FAR and DRE and see if you get the heating. Also post your output_log file so Starwaster can help you out a little more.

[Shurikeeen]

Can I find .25 DRE somewhere?

[Gryphon]

Any thin part can get attached the less-desirable way in the editor. For instance, it's easy to put an OCTO2 inside the part it's attached to. I use three methods to help avoid this:

1. Adjust Camera Angle: be off to the side, not directly above or below the work face.

2. Zoom In: Put the camera near to the work face.

3. Drag THEN Drop: When you are placing the part, don't clicky the mouse until you are sure it's going to attach properly. (This is easier after doing #1 and #2.)

Also, keep in mind that Command Pod Mk1 has a heat shield built in, but Mk1-2 Command Pod does not.

[theersink]

Can I find .25 DRE somewhere?

In the first post click on source on github, at the top of that page click on releases.

[Gryphon]

Can I find .25 DRE somewhere?

HAH! I knew it was there somewhere. Try looking at all releases on github Then you can pick the one you want.

Personally, I am still using Deadly Reentry 6.2.1 with KSP 0.25.

[Fraz86]

I apologize if this has already been addressed, but do we have DRE support for the new parts in 0.90 (i.e., Mk3 and the fuel-containing 2.5m/1.25m adapters)?

[Jacke]

HAH! I knew it was there somewhere. Try looking at all releases on github Then you can pick the one you want.

Personally, I am still using Deadly Reentry 6.2.1 with KSP 0.25.

I normally only play with BTSM. That mods DR. Under that condition, I found with DR 6.1 and 6.2 I couldn't fly a Kerbin polar orbit mission as they always burned up. The 6.3 beta fixed that, but then it allowed the 1.25m heatshield to survive a 3500m/s Mun return reentry. Until FlowerChild, the author of BTSM, has another look at BTSM and DR when he gets to doing a KSP 0.90 version, with BTSM in KSP 0.25 I'm using DR 6.0.

[Starwaster]

This doesn't work either. I did second option - temperature became higher (1100 insead 800 at peak) but not high enough - I landed from orbit and nothing burned

That's too vague for me to do anything with. How high an orbit or how fast were you going on reentry? Are you saying you expected it to be hotter than 1100 or that you expected things to start blowing up at 1100?

Also, DRE caps the highest maxTemp at 1250, so things wouldn't burn up at 1100 anyway. (caveat: see last part of post)

I'm using FAR and with those settings you used if I am not extremely careful about the angle I come in at I either burn through the shield and blow up or my kerbals die of high gees and I never slow enough for chute deployment. Perhaps another mod os interfering? Try those settings with just FAR and DRE and see if you get the heating. Also post your output_log file so Starwaster can help you out a little more.

It probably is worth mentioning that not operating with FAR, NEAR or SDF would definitely cause a more deceleration. Maybe enough to be noticeably less 'deadly'. DRE doesn't know or care if stock aerodynamics are in play or not....

As far as log files, that really only is useful if there are errors being generated that prevent DRE from working. Knowing things like velocity, what sort of build, what DRE settings is more helpful.

Now then, I've found a problem in that code that prevents the temperature cap from being fully applied to the entire parts database. This means that some parts will have maxTemps higher than 1250 (even up to or past 3000). I'm going to post a temporary hotfix shortly as a replacement dll drop-in until I can do a better fix. The hotfix will be posted to dropbox.

[ss8913]

My "hardSettings.cfg" actually does say "heat multiplier" not "multiplier" ... I'll try these settings and see what I come up with. As it is now I can re-enter almost anything on hard mode and use between 0-4 units of ablative shielding *at most* which is definitely a big departure from the behavior under 0.25.

[acc]

is there a way to disable the parachute deployment unsafe warning? kinda ruins my reentry screenshots

Edited December 19, 2014 by acc
typo

[Starwaster]

Temporary hotfix for the maxTemp issue not being fixed by FixMaxTemps

Side effects are that engines are not going to be touched at all no matter what.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/moge45bumutdcwj/DeadlyReentry.dll?dl=1