[1.12.*] Deadly Reentry v7.9.0 The Barbie Edition, Aug 5th, 2021

[Starwaster]

Deadly Reentry v7.4.7

• Compiled for KSP 1.1.3
• Updated versioning information

https://github.com/Starwaster/DeadlyReentry/releases/tag/v7.4.7

Ok, not sure this was the best way to deal with the CKAN issue or not but I hadn't heard back from them and didn't want to leave things in the state they were in. So, I took down the previous update, bumped DRE version and updated the information in the version file. The changes will get picked up by CKAN... I hope.

Edited July 6, 2016 by Starwaster

[razark]

53 minutes ago, Starwaster said:

https://github.com/Starwaster/DeadlyReentry/releases/tag/v7.4.7

You might want to check that link.  It says 7.4.7, but it links to 7.4.6.

[Starwaster]

3 hours ago, razark said:

You might want to check that link.  It says 7.4.7, but it links to 7.4.6.

Thanks fixed

[baldamundo]

This is probably a stupid question, but I couldn't find the answers anywhere else - what do each of the debug menu thermal settings do and which should I change to make reentry more punishing?

[Starwaster]

3 hours ago, baldamundo said:

This is probably a stupid question, but I couldn't find the answers anywhere else - what do each of the debug menu thermal settings do

Before anything else: Look in the difficulty settings (in-game, press escape then settings. Top of the settings menu is Difficulty Options. Click that and look for the reentry heating slider. That will affect reentry heating. It only goes up to 120% but maybe that will be enough for you. So, moving onto the debug menu:

These following are multipliers. Increases rate at which heat is gained OR LOST. (heat transfer is determined by subtracting temperature of a part from temperature of something else - another part or reentry shockwave, etc. If positive then the part is gaining heat at a delta equal the temperature difference. Negative means it loses heat. All the thermal calculations involve this at some point. This also means that that impact is greatest when the temperature delta is higher. If heat transfer for that component is at equilibrium then the net result is 0)

Radiation Factor = How fast part gains/loses heat through radiation.
Conduction Factor = How fast heat travels: Between parts (internal), between part skin <-> part skin, part skin <-> part internal
Convection Factor = How fast part gains/loses heat through convection (mach only? not sure)
Generation Factor = How fast heat producing parts (such as engines) produce heat

Newtonian Temperature Factor = speed multiplier for shockwave heating. 

The last two aren't relevant here and (I think) changing Luminosity would affect things like solar panels too.

Quote

and which should I change to make reentry more punishing?

Newtonian Temperature Factor is a multiplier against the speed at which you're travelling (m/s) and you could use this to increase the base shockwave temperature (which is roughly equal to your velocity in m/s) - A value of 3 would make a Munar return feel like a Lunar return. It would also make things harder on supersonic aircraft so I don't think you really want to mess with this - it's really messing with the base values where mach heating starts.

Radiation Factor = affects rate at which heat is transferred through radiation. You're not really going to gain heat through radiation until you get into the high hypersonic speeds and it would make your parts shed heat faster as well so maybe leave this one alone if your goal is to make things harder.

Convection Factor = This one affects heating from convection so is an obvious choice if you want to increase the rate at which you gain heat from reentry

Conduction Factor = Now, THIS is a less obvious choice for increasing reentry heating but it's a good one - I saved the best for last. High conduction values actually make reentry easier because a given part can disperse incoming heat faster to other parts or spreading it out to its unexposed skin or to its internals. So the skin heats up slower. Lower conduction values make heat build up faster at the skin and it can't get rid of it.

Older versions of Deadly Reentry used to set Conduction Factor to 5 and that was my main tool in making things harder on the player. Lately I haven't felt the need so I left conduction alone. If you really want to make things difficult during reentry, try reducing conduction factor while watching a part's temperature during reentry and watch how much hotter the exposed skin gets.

[baldamundo]

Thanks for the tips and explanation! Will have a play with the ones you suggest and see how it goes

[Starwaster]

Minor update (configs only)

Removed ablator from procedural fairings because of negative cost issue.

https://github.com/Starwaster/DeadlyReentry/releases/tag/v7.4.7.1

[Gaarst]

I think I have spotted an issue with DRE: the 2x3 retractable solar panels only have a skin max temp of 1000K while the 1x6 retractable panels have 2000K. (Both internal max temps are 1000K and both max temps for both parts are 2000K in stock, I assume that it is DRE that changes these).

Note that I have other mods installed, so confirmation is needed as to whereas it is caused by DRE or another mod (I will try with only DRE installed).

[Starwaster]

19 minutes ago, Gaarst said:

I think I have spotted an issue with DRE: the 2x3 retractable solar panels only have a skin max temp of 1000K while the 1x6 retractable panels have 2000K. (Both internal max temps are 1000K and both max temps for both parts are 2000K in stock, I assume that it is DRE that changes these).

Note that I have other mods installed, so confirmation is needed as to whereas it is caused by DRE or another mod (I will try with only DRE installed).

I don't understand what you'er saying the issue is. Are you saying that 1000K is too low or that 2000K is too high?

Also WHICH retractable solar panels? The ones that are bare or the ones that have cases?

If they are bare then 1000K is probably about right. Though maybe they could be bumped up a bit, especially considering that thermal damage starts happening at 0.85%

The ones with covers on the other hand are considered to have TPS coverings when they are closed. When open, they become exposed and their maxTemp actually drops down.

[Gaarst]

1 hour ago, Starwaster said:

I don't understand what you'er saying the issue is. Are you saying that 1000K is too low or that 2000K is too high?

Also WHICH retractable solar panels? The ones that are bare or the ones that have cases?

If they are bare then 1000K is probably about right. Though maybe they could be bumped up a bit, especially considering that thermal damage starts happening at 0.85%

The ones with covers on the other hand are considered to have TPS coverings when they are closed. When open, they become exposed and their maxTemp actually drops down.

(Only the solar panels with cases are retractable now, so yes I'm talking about them)

1000K is the same as the non-covered panels, so it is too low IMO, the 2000K of the other covered panels seems right. 1000K blows up when reentring (RSS) no matter what I do, wihle parts that have a 2000K are more likely to survive if I pay a little attention to what's cooking when reentring.

The 1000K max skin temp is indicated both in the VAB and by KER, and tests I've done show that they blow up as easily as non-deployable panels, even when retracted.

Edited July 8, 2016 by Gaarst

[Starwaster]

6 minutes ago, Gaarst said:

(Only the solar panels with cases are retractable now, so yes I'm talking about them)

1000K is the same as the non-covered panels, so it is too low IMO, the 2000K of the other covered panels seems right.

The 1000K max skin temp is indicated both in the VAB and by KER, and tests I've done show that they blow up as easily as non-deployable panels, even when retracted.

Ok so it's one of the covered panels that's too low. Ok I'll check it out.

[robbzor]

Hiya Starwaster, just wanted to let you know that your Deadly Re-Entery mod on CKAN uses an URL to version 7.4.6 that actually doesn't even exist. This causes a problem when downloading the requisite mods for Realistic Progression Zero since the whole downloading/installation process aborts when it encounters an error. Would be nice of you to get that checked!

Edited July 18, 2016 by robbzor

[Starwaster]

8 hours ago, robbzor said:

Hiya Starwaster, just wanted to let you know that your Deadly Re-Entery mod on CKAN uses an URL to version 7.4.6 that actually doesn't even exist. This causes a problem when downloading the requisite mods for Realistic Progression Zero since the whole downloading/installation process aborts when it encounters an error. Would be nice of you to get that checked!

I think I found the problem and proposed a file delete of the CKAN DRE meta for 7.4.6 on the CKAN meta repo. Hope that fixes it but if not I have no idea. I didn't arrange for DRE to be picked up by CKAN and I don't do any maintenance of that data.

Edit: And why the hell is every single mod under Kerbol getting a tooltip on the forums except for DRE?

Edited July 19, 2016 by Starwaster

[blu3wolf]

CKAN isnt a mod.

[Starwaster]

2 hours ago, blu3wolf said:

CKAN isnt a mod.

Yes thank you, I think everyone knows that.

[blu3wolf]

If you wish to imply that you personally were aware, you may want to reedit your post a little.

[Starwaster]

3 hours ago, blu3wolf said:

If you wish to imply that you personally were aware, you may want to reedit your post a little.

No the post stands as is and I'm not going to break out the  neon flashing lights or dumb down my post.

[kcs123]

12 hours ago, Starwaster said:

Edit: And why the hell is every single mod under Kerbol getting a tooltip on the forums except for DRE?

It is not for every single mod, but for commonly used acronyms. Perhaps everyone forgot to mention DRE there or moderators think that it might be overkill to add DRE on list for tooltips.

[Starwaster]

LOL ok let's see here.... KIS KAS RF MFT MFS RO FAR MM MJ RSS

Maybe saying EVERY single mod is a bit of an exaggeration but not much of one. I just think DRE should get some love too.

Thanks for making me aware of that thread. I checked it and DRE was suggested. *shrug* oh well

Edited July 19, 2016 by Starwaster

[Gryphon]

 

On 7/19/2016 at 7:54 AM, Starwaster said:

No the post stands as is and I'm not going to break out the  neon flashing lights or dumb down my post.

 

1 hour ago, Starwaster said:

YEEEAAAAAHHHHHHHHH

 

It could be worse, they could have it in but identified incorrectly. Dancing Raisin Engine, anyone?

[MarlboroMan]

On 7/3/2016 at 9:09 PM, yaume said:

Are these settings right?

Radiation Factor: 1

Conduction Factor: 120

Convection Factor: 7

Generation Factor: 0.025

 

I have the same settings in my thermal settings window.

KSP 1.1.3

RSS and RO installed from ckan.

Even with re-entry settings at 10% and trying varies Pe from 400km, pretty much impossible to avoid heat damage.

[Starwaster]

4 hours ago, MarlboroMan said:

I have the same settings in my thermal settings window.

KSP 1.1.3

RSS and RO installed from ckan.

Even with re-entry settings at 10% and trying varies Pe from 400km, pretty much impossible to avoid heat damage.

If that's all the information you're going to give then my answer to you is the same as to him.

Abbreviated version: Those aren't the numbers you should see with RO installed so something is wrong with your installation. Fix your KSP + RO installation.

[MarlboroMan]

Fair enuf.

I checked my "clean" install and those setting are the same in there,is the convection factor suppose to be 7.0 in the standard game and is DREC or RO/RSS suppose to change that?

 I have copied and modding my Steam version of 1.1.3.

I moved the convection factor slider down to 1.7 and had much better luck, the soyuz heatsheild still depleted to zero and exploded before i got into the thickest atmo, but nothing else did unlike before (so that heatshield might not be configured properly). I will test with my space plane soon which had massive overheating issues before.

If by correcting that convection factor solves these problems, how do I save that value so i don't have to change it every time i restart the game.

thanks

Edited July 24, 2016 by MarlboroMan
grammer

[Starwaster]

1 hour ago, MarlboroMan said:

Fair enuf.

I checked my "clean" install and those setting are the same in there,is the convection factor suppose to be 7.0 in the standard game and is DREC or RO/RSS suppose to change that?

 I have copied and modding my Steam version of 1.1.3.

I moved the convection factor slider down to 1.7 and had much better luck, the soyuz heatsheild still depleted to zero and exploded before i got into the thickest atmo, but nothing else did unlike before (so that heatshield might not be configured properly). I will test with my space plane soon which had massive overheating issues before.

If by correcting that convection factor solves these problems, how do I save that value so i don't have to change it every time i restart the game.

thanks

RO changes convection to give heating appropriate to planets sized for what you have in RSS. Earth is the benchmark, typically. It also changes conduction rates so that conduction is lower than in stock. (that translates to increased skin temperatures because the thermal energy can't diffuse into the interior as fast as in stock)

Heat shields are a special case. RO adjusts heat shields on a case by case basis and tags them with RSSROConfig. If Real Solar System is installed without Realism Overhaul then Deadly Reentry will try to adjust the shields to be suitable for an Earth sized reentry. (alternatively I could just do that for any shield that lacks the RSSROConfig tag even if RO is installed but generally I prefer to leave things alone in the event it is installed)

If your heat shield doesn't hold up, make sure that it is suitable for the type of return you're making. (i.e. if it's a lunar return then make sure the shield IS lunar return rated)

Since you mention Soyuz specifically, it's probably an RO issue and you should probably take it up in that forum.

[MarlboroMan]

So 7.0 is the default convection factor in the stock game?

The soyuz was an example, my space plane now re enters easily, I can crank the difficulty setting back up from 10% (10% was impossible with convection factor of 7.0)

Orbiting over home (large image)

I'll go check out the RO thread thanks.

Edited July 24, 2016 by MarlboroMan